Side vents / air intake
Discussion
Don't the Reverie (and similar) side ducts create a large amount of drag? Would it not be better to install large fans inside the bay and attached to the inner-most face of the respectice coolers to draw air in without the two air-brakes on the sides? That aside they do look more pleasing on the eye than just the mesh panels!
[quote=J&j]Don't the Reverie (and similar) side ducts create a large amount of drag? Would it not be better to install large fans inside the bay and attached to the inner-most face of the respectice coolers to draw air in without the two air-brakes on the sides? That aside they do look more pleasing on the eye than just the mesh panels!
[/quote]
In a word 'No'. I have them on my Can-Am. If there is such a thing as drag, I have not felt it yet. Just how fast are you planning to go? These things are so fast I don't think a couple side scoups are going to hurt the performance. Air brakes they are certainly not! Adding extra fans and the load they would add to your alternator would cause more drag on the engine than the scoups would on the air.
Regards Dave
[/quote]
In a word 'No'. I have them on my Can-Am. If there is such a thing as drag, I have not felt it yet. Just how fast are you planning to go? These things are so fast I don't think a couple side scoups are going to hurt the performance. Air brakes they are certainly not! Adding extra fans and the load they would add to your alternator would cause more drag on the engine than the scoups would on the air.
Regards Dave
My question is the opposite, are they truly functional in drawing any air in? Does anyone have before and after temps? I'd buy some in a heartbeat for more effective track transmission cooling, if proven to work. My current fallback is to be installation of a fan.
On the Pantera you have to be about 3" out from the body to get out of the boundary layer and into any 'dirty' air.
On the Pantera you have to be about 3" out from the body to get out of the boundary layer and into any 'dirty' air.
Im the one who originally had the reveria ones designed for my car and I saw HUGE engine bay temp reduction with them fitted, I had the sensor in the STACK system I ran so could monitor it on the fly... I didnt however write the figures down.
As an example on an overcast day and normal driving home from work after 30mins I would open the clip and I would not be able to touch the air filter without gloves.... after it was fitted on an exctremally hot day and 1.5hrs driving at a very brisk 70mph I opened the clip and it was cool to the touch! So the engines performance and safety gain with them on must have been massive as well (hot air isnt good for an engine).
Of cause the scoops only work when the cars moving and Im fairly sure they dont add any significant drag unlike say a rear spoiler etc.
As an example on an overcast day and normal driving home from work after 30mins I would open the clip and I would not be able to touch the air filter without gloves.... after it was fitted on an exctremally hot day and 1.5hrs driving at a very brisk 70mph I opened the clip and it was cool to the touch! So the engines performance and safety gain with them on must have been massive as well (hot air isnt good for an engine).
Of cause the scoops only work when the cars moving and Im fairly sure they dont add any significant drag unlike say a rear spoiler etc.
An interesting thread on heat, I'd thought a bit about this too, even though its someway down the line for me.
Have any of the regular track users looked at the air-cooling issues or experienced slight power loss after a few minutes hard running?
I was reflecting on past experience with single cylinder engine/exhaust setups under a closed hood and thinking how this might possibly affect the Ultima too. We used to find when working the engines hard, even in relatively mild ambient temps, the previously perfect engine/exhaust setup, would go slightly off peak tune, this being far more notable on a single cylinder set-up. After some head scratching we came to the conclusion that the initial rise in engine bay temp of only a few degrees, caused quite considerably higher engine running temps, paticularly as the intake was drawing the same air!
I know the Ultima clip has an induction/cooling scoop but has anyone thought of or tried to partition the headers within the engine bay/clip and provide cooling and extraction to that area seperately? (4x extraction area to 1 intake)
I have seen some headers wrapped or ceramic coated but still the silencers are two huge radiators and as we know heat rises..... straight towards the underside of the clip and intake. Warmer, less dense intake-air may well trigger detonation in a finely tuned performance engine, even with ECU protection this would still lead to a reduction of power.
In addition to the intake temps I'm sure the general temp's within the engine bay could be reduced too with a bit of work on those big pipes?
Have any of the regular track users looked at the air-cooling issues or experienced slight power loss after a few minutes hard running?
I was reflecting on past experience with single cylinder engine/exhaust setups under a closed hood and thinking how this might possibly affect the Ultima too. We used to find when working the engines hard, even in relatively mild ambient temps, the previously perfect engine/exhaust setup, would go slightly off peak tune, this being far more notable on a single cylinder set-up. After some head scratching we came to the conclusion that the initial rise in engine bay temp of only a few degrees, caused quite considerably higher engine running temps, paticularly as the intake was drawing the same air!
I know the Ultima clip has an induction/cooling scoop but has anyone thought of or tried to partition the headers within the engine bay/clip and provide cooling and extraction to that area seperately? (4x extraction area to 1 intake)
I have seen some headers wrapped or ceramic coated but still the silencers are two huge radiators and as we know heat rises..... straight towards the underside of the clip and intake. Warmer, less dense intake-air may well trigger detonation in a finely tuned performance engine, even with ECU protection this would still lead to a reduction of power.
In addition to the intake temps I'm sure the general temp's within the engine bay could be reduced too with a bit of work on those big pipes?
bluesatin said:
Group buys will make a significant difference on price. This worked for a group of us a couple of years back. You should also try carbonmods to get a price.
I don't see any suitable side scoops on CarbonMods website - I guess that would mean they would have to start from scratch to design a pair for the Ultima...738 driver said:
I know the Ultima clip has an induction/cooling scoop but has anyone thought of or tried to partition the headers within the engine bay/clip and provide cooling and extraction to that area seperately? (4x extraction area to 1 intake)
I have seen some headers wrapped or ceramic coated but still the silencers are two huge radiators and as we know heat rises..... straight towards the underside of the clip and intake. Warmer, less dense intake-air may well trigger detonation in a finely tuned performance engine, even with ECU protection this would still lead to a reduction of power.
In addition to the intake temps I'm sure the general temp's within the engine bay could be reduced too with a bit of work on those big pipes?
I'm hopeful that side vent scoops will draw air in and address the internal clip air flow/cooling. As for intake air my intake seals against the clip and can only draw cold air from outside.I have seen some headers wrapped or ceramic coated but still the silencers are two huge radiators and as we know heat rises..... straight towards the underside of the clip and intake. Warmer, less dense intake-air may well trigger detonation in a finely tuned performance engine, even with ECU protection this would still lead to a reduction of power.
In addition to the intake temps I'm sure the general temp's within the engine bay could be reduced too with a bit of work on those big pipes?
Thats a neat installation Joules and goes some way to addressing my concerns, cheers.
I take it you have individual rubber trumpet connectors between the intakes and your custom airbox?
Which efi did you go for and how do you get on with it?
Is that a coating on your headers too or just a paint finish?
Lots of Q's sorry .....but I have a big hang-up with excess heat upsetting the tune of a good motor!
Cheers.
I take it you have individual rubber trumpet connectors between the intakes and your custom airbox?
Which efi did you go for and how do you get on with it?
Is that a coating on your headers too or just a paint finish?
Lots of Q's sorry .....but I have a big hang-up with excess heat upsetting the tune of a good motor!
Cheers.
srreck said:
Can't understand why people installs the oil tank in that position. IMHO the oil tank works by itselves as a cooler if it goes placed in a correct location. The heat from the exhaust on this pictured tank should be terrible........or ...I'm wrong ?
yes i would agree!! it would make more sense to me to have it next to the trans where the accusump would be??it would need to be shorter and fatter but would still work.
738 driver said:
Thats a neat installation Joules and goes some way to addressing my concerns, cheers.
I take it you have individual rubber trumpet connectors between the intakes and your custom airbox?
Which efi did you go for and how do you get on with it?
Is that a coating on your headers too or just a paint finish?
Lots of Q's sorry .....but I have a big hang-up with excess heat upsetting the tune of a good motor!
Cheers.
The EFI is a Kinsler unit, run through an ACCEL DFI system. The lower portion of the air box is bolted and sealed to the runners. I'm still ironing out some of the mapping on the efi and as a old school carb guy it's all new to me, but I'm very happy.I take it you have individual rubber trumpet connectors between the intakes and your custom airbox?
Which efi did you go for and how do you get on with it?
Is that a coating on your headers too or just a paint finish?
Lots of Q's sorry .....but I have a big hang-up with excess heat upsetting the tune of a good motor!
Cheers.
The headers are a custom CAD design for maximum flow and are ceramic coated for heat dissipation, the coating makes a huge difference and the headers will be cool to the touch long before I can go near the SS mufflers.
kylemrushall said:
srreck said:
Can't understand why people installs the oil tank in that position. IMHO the oil tank works by itselves as a cooler if it goes placed in a correct location. The heat from the exhaust on this pictured tank should be terrible........or ...I'm wrong ?
yes i would agree!! it would make more sense to me to have it next to the trans where the accusump would be??it would need to be shorter and fatter but would still work.
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