MD's out there, how best to tackle a payrise request

[m3sye]

My GF is about to ask her Sales director for her 1st ever pay increase. When she orignally took the role on some 15 months ago she was only 21 1/2 and have never had previous experience in the recruitment industry (only sales experience) so they started her off on a salary which at the time represented her skill level (£11,500)
Since then she has become consistantly (over the last 9months) there top sales person bringing in a consistant 15-20k each month - 10-15k of that new business.
She is paid a 15% bonus which obviously gives her a fairly decent amount of bonus based on what she brings in for them.

I have said she really needs to have a chat to them about her current basic wage to bring it upto line with industry standard for what she does. We also noticed the other day they were advertising for staff with a Basic wage on offer of £18,000 per annum. I stated to her if someone came in on that wage no matter what they had done previously they are still a risk as a new industry means a new challange and they she should be looking for at least that amount.

I have said print off all your figures for the last 6-12 months, state that you are happy working there are really looking to progress in the company and that you feel you deserve a wage that matches
A) what you bring in
b) Your committment to the company

Am I wrong to suggest to her to ask for a pay rise?

Is there any other way she should go about it?

Thanks all for any advice

p.s the company was recently bought out for around 30 million and as part of that buy out has very high targets to hit (which they are currently behind) so to lose someone of her nature who guarantees them a set amount per year in my eyes would be a great loss.

[Rico]

I'd be tempted to do a different approach and ask for an increase in commission % to make up for her lower basic wage compared to the ads you've seen.

Win-win situation all round.

[JustinP1]

As you have said is quite correct.

The ammo is that they are taking on new staff at 18k and secondly as you have said her performance figures.

A recruitment agency will be the first to know that if she went elsewhere she would get 18k!

[m3sye]

my only worry with that would be what if she took a 3 week holiday or broke a leg and could not work for 4 weeks or got a throat infection etc etc...

I understand in sales the basic is lower but I still think it should be at a certain level IMHO

[paoloh]

IMO she is entitled to be on the same salary as other sales staff.

[m3sye]

How would you feel if they were not advertising for staff on the amount? based on what she brings in and her commitment to the company etc?

[paoloh]

If she has been there for 15 months without a payrise and is bringing in good figures, I'd say, she'd be entitled to a raise.

[northandy]

m3sye said:

My GF is about to ask her Sales director for her 1st ever pay increase. When she orignally took the role on some 15 months ago she was only 21 1/2 and have never had previous experience in the recruitment industry (only sales experience) so they started her off on a salary which at the time represented her skill level (£11,500)
Since then she has become consistantly (over the last 9months) there top sales person bringing in a consistant 15-20k each month - 10-15k of that new business.
She is paid a 15% bonus which obviously gives her a fairly decent amount of bonus based on what she brings in for them.

I have said she really needs to have a chat to them about her current basic wage to bring it upto line with industry standard for what she does. We also noticed the other day they were advertising for staff with a Basic wage on offer of £18,000 per annum. I stated to her if someone came in on that wage no matter what they had done previously they are still a risk as a new industry means a new challange and they she should be looking for at least that amount.

I have said print off all your figures for the last 6-12 months, state that you are happy working there are really looking to progress in the company and that you feel you deserve a wage that matches
A) what you bring in
b) Your committment to the company

Am I wrong to suggest to her to ask for a pay rise?

Is there any other way she should go about it?

Thanks all for any advice

p.s the company was recently bought out for around 30 million and as part of that buy out has very high targets to hit (which they are currently behind) so to lose someone of her nature who guarantees them a set amount per year in my eyes would be a great loss.

Sounds like a strong case for a raise, got to be asked for in the right way though, and backed up with facts and data...

[paoloh]

northandy said:

m3sye said:

My GF is about to ask her Sales director for her 1st ever pay increase. When she orignally took the role on some 15 months ago she was only 21 1/2 and have never had previous experience in the recruitment industry (only sales experience) so they started her off on a salary which at the time represented her skill level (£11,500)
Since then she has become consistantly (over the last 9months) there top sales person bringing in a consistant 15-20k each month - 10-15k of that new business.
She is paid a 15% bonus which obviously gives her a fairly decent amount of bonus based on what she brings in for them.

I have said she really needs to have a chat to them about her current basic wage to bring it upto line with industry standard for what she does. We also noticed the other day they were advertising for staff with a Basic wage on offer of £18,000 per annum. I stated to her if someone came in on that wage no matter what they had done previously they are still a risk as a new industry means a new challange and they she should be looking for at least that amount.

I have said print off all your figures for the last 6-12 months, state that you are happy working there are really looking to progress in the company and that you feel you deserve a wage that matches
A) what you bring in
b) Your committment to the company

Am I wrong to suggest to her to ask for a pay rise?

Is there any other way she should go about it?

Thanks all for any advice

p.s the company was recently bought out for around 30 million and as part of that buy out has very high targets to hit (which they are currently behind) so to lose someone of her nature who guarantees them a set amount per year in my eyes would be a great loss.

Sounds like a strong case for a raise, got to be asked for in the right way though, and backed up with facts and data...

Or tits out and on her knees

[POORCARDEALER]

Sometimes you have to move on to get the respect and salary you deserve, particually if you have started at a junior level. It might be that time

[silver.fox.2008]

Has she ever asked them for a pay rise in the past?

They've probably thought that she hasn't asked for one so she must be happy. If she's their top performer then theres no reason for them to refuse. I doubt they'll want to see her go over to another agency.

I would go into the meeting and do what others here have suggested. Explain that when she joined she was happy to join on their terms as she never had the experience. I think she should ask for slightly more than the current starting salary of new recruits because shes their top sales person. If they valued her at all i don't see why they shouldn't agree.

[spikeyhead]

Is there an annual appraisal system and annual pay review?

if o, then if this is soon, delay until then.

[Asterix]

Go with the facts of previous performance and what the new staff are on.

I also prefer to sit down and set realistic future KPIs (if not done already) when someone asks for a raise. It ensures that both parties have a very clear expectation of their part of the deal and sets a win-win scenario.

Another thing that can help is to ask to be considered for fast track promotion - are there training courses to go on etc...

[m3sye]

Update

She asked for a meeting with the sales director on Friday fully prepared with what she was going to say but he was a bit off with her saying that he would need to speak to the M.D (who is on holiday)
Basically she said he just said "right" to what ever she said...not asking one question about why she felt she deserved one, one she wanted to do in the future etc

Will keep you updated ..

[m3sye]

Update

She asked for a meeting with the sales director on Friday fully prepared with what she was going to say but he was a bit off with her saying that he would need to speak to the M.D (who is on holiday)
Basically she said he just said "right" to what ever she said...not asking one question about why she felt she deserved one, one she wanted to do in the future etc

Will keep you updated ..

[Dunk76]

Those sort of responses say to me 'Get ready for the brush-off'.

Pay rises and sales roles don't generally go hand-in-hand, and I'd imagine that down in the dog-eat-dog world of Inflated Egos, Paco Rabannne, Hair Gel, and Bullst that is your typical recruitment agency, it's even less likely.

[JustinP1]

Dunk76 said:

Those sort of responses say to me 'Get ready for the brush-off'.

Pay rises and sales roles don't generally go hand-in-hand, and I'd imagine that down in the dog-eat-dog world of Inflated Egos, Paco Rabannne, Hair Gel, and Bullst that is your typical recruitment agency, it's even less likely.

Either that or it is only the MD who has the authority to discuss pay rises and the middle managers are waiting for him to come back before entering into a discussion?

Edited by JustinP1 on Monday 27th October 13:24

[Dunk76]

JustinP1 said:

Dunk76 said:

Those sort of responses say to me 'Get ready for the brush-off'.

Pay rises and sales roles don't generally go hand-in-hand, and I'd imagine that down in the dog-eat-dog world of Inflated Egos, Paco Rabannne, Hair Gel, and Bullst that is your typical recruitment agency, it's even less likely.

Either that or it is only the MD who has the authority to discuss pay rises and the middle managers are waiting for him to come back before entering into a discussion?

Edited by JustinP1 on Monday 27th October 13:24

The lack of interest on the part of her line manager leads me to think this. If he had to seriously justify the payrise upwards, then he'll want her to sell it to him. If he's already been approved (along the lines of 'she's underpaid, but we'll keep it that way until she asks') then surely he'd be a little more forthcoming in terms of being the employees friend/ally?

[JustinP1]

Dunk76 said:

JustinP1 said:

Dunk76 said:

Those sort of responses say to me 'Get ready for the brush-off'.

Pay rises and sales roles don't generally go hand-in-hand, and I'd imagine that down in the dog-eat-dog world of Inflated Egos, Paco Rabannne, Hair Gel, and Bullst that is your typical recruitment agency, it's even less likely.

Either that or it is only the MD who has the authority to discuss pay rises and the middle managers are waiting for him to come back before entering into a discussion?

Edited by JustinP1 on Monday 27th October 13:24

The lack of interest on the part of her line manager leads me to think this. If he had to seriously justify the payrise upwards, then he'll want her to sell it to him. If he's already been approved (along the lines of 'she's underpaid, but we'll keep it that way until she asks') then surely he'd be a little more forthcoming in terms of being the employees friend/ally?

You mean lick are behind of those underneath you as oppose to those above you?

Thats not what middle managers do!

Look at it from their point of view. They got to where they are by keeping their arse clean enough to move up. The last thing they are going to do is utter words which will probably be repeated later on when the employee does get to speak to the MD. If one of my line managers sided with an employee to tell them they are worth 50% more than what they are being paid - especially if they have been told that salaries are not under their control they would be in for the high jump!

[Triumph Coupe]

In sales there are good times and bad times (for everyone - even the very best sales people have some bad months) and it is much easier asking for a payrise when you are having a good time. You can use your figures to make the negotiation go your way. It is much harder to say no to a performing sales person. Also if you are being paid less than the other sales people but performing better then there is every right to ask for a payrise and no reason to refuse one. Sales people need to be motivated and employees know this.

She just needs to point out al of the facts, point out that she is feeling undervalued but has a dedication to the company and that she wants a payrise to bring her inline with the rest of the team. If she is a sales person she should be able to sell herself and her case for more pay...

Don't settle for more bonus and the same basic. Always go for the higher basic option if possible. Bonus schemes change and the goal posts often move in the following years. Companies don't like paying bonuses! You are far better off having a higher basic.