On in court tomorrow- advice quickly please!!!!
Discussion
On in court tomorrow for speeding.
Somebody else filled in the form (we haven't disclosed this info yet... and might not) and didn't sign it. They didn't mention this fact and just came back with a offer of fixed penalty. We did nothing and now we have our day in court.
My solicitor is going to tell them that the 172 is not acceptable because it is unsigned. All they have are the photos which could be anybody. If they then decide to get me on the stand, can they ask me ANY questions or are they limited to certain ones? I would look through all the sites (pepipoo, speedsafe etc) but I'm up against it today and I need the info fast.
Thanks in advance.
Somebody else filled in the form (we haven't disclosed this info yet... and might not) and didn't sign it. They didn't mention this fact and just came back with a offer of fixed penalty. We did nothing and now we have our day in court.
My solicitor is going to tell them that the 172 is not acceptable because it is unsigned. All they have are the photos which could be anybody. If they then decide to get me on the stand, can they ask me ANY questions or are they limited to certain ones? I would look through all the sites (pepipoo, speedsafe etc) but I'm up against it today and I need the info fast.
Thanks in advance.
They can't get you onto the stand, nor can they question you. You are entitled to maintain your silence and your brief will simply discount their evidence, i.e. the unsigned NIP, by quoting HH Judge Ticehurst who has clearly stated that there is no requirement to sign under sect 172, and that without such evidence the NIP is not acceptable as a witness statement or confession. Also it cannot be accepted under PACE as you must have been told of your rights prior to making a voluntary confession under PACE - see the Safespeed site.
I think this is correct.
Don't give up!
If you lose you must immediately give notice of appeal.
I think this is correct.
Don't give up!
If you lose you must immediately give notice of appeal.
They can't get you on the stand. Only you can volunteer to get up there - which is a bad idea unless you are willing to commit perjury. The prosecution can not require it.
Get all the information you can on R v Pickford and the Dwight York cases and make sure your solicitor knows the legal details of these CROWN Court cases inside out.
Get all the information you can on R v Pickford and the Dwight York cases and make sure your solicitor knows the legal details of these CROWN Court cases inside out.
Cooperman said:
quoting HH Judge Ticehurst who has clearly stated that there is no requirement to sign under sect 172, and that without such evidence the NIP is not acceptable as a witness statement or confession.
HH Judge Ticehurst has been overturned by Judge Owen in Yorke & Maudesley in the High Court. Ticehurst was only the Crown Court. However, JO confirmed that an unsigned form is not admissable under Section 12. It is however acceptable as a confession.
Strangely, thus far, the CPS are not quoting this judgement; you can though. In any case, since blueyes did not fill in his form, it cannot be a confession. blueyes conforms to the Yorke part of the judgement; the judgement says that he must be acquitted.
>> Edited by jeffreyarcher on Thursday 2nd October 14:00
Confessions should be proven in court by writ or oath. I.e. a signed confession (not here since no proof who signed therefore confessed), or by giving evidence on oath (Pronounce "It was me" from the witness box). As the accused you are not a compellable witness i.e. it's entirely your own choce whether you do or whether you don't give evidence. Your brother can be, so presumably he won't be in court tomorrow.
This means CPS must convince the bench beyond reasonable doubt that it was you speeding. Presumably they will have the photo. Do you still look like that ? (Don't shave your head tonight just too look different, it just looks suspicious). Trust brief has a sample of your handwriting as a production. Useful to show that it doesn't match 172, so cast the question who wrote what ?
Sounds very much like CPS either have a good mug-shot of you, or they're about to make an a@@@ of themselves. Hopefully the latter !
This means CPS must convince the bench beyond reasonable doubt that it was you speeding. Presumably they will have the photo. Do you still look like that ? (Don't shave your head tonight just too look different, it just looks suspicious). Trust brief has a sample of your handwriting as a production. Useful to show that it doesn't match 172, so cast the question who wrote what ?
Sounds very much like CPS either have a good mug-shot of you, or they're about to make an a@@@ of themselves. Hopefully the latter !
O.K. well... case dismissed!
Few points, as advised by my solicitor, before you all start going mad.
1. All the way along they didn't contest the fact that he hadn't signed the 172, so the case was a plain speeding one.
2. This was a pre York/Mawdsley case.
3. The photos were shite.
4. He wasn't asked to take the stand.
5. Remember that only your wife or solicitor has "privilege" so they are the only ones that can fill the 172 form in for you and not get put on the stand.
FINAL POINT
Apparently my solicitors fame has spread and he's receiving calls daily. Trouble is it's mainly people who want advice over the phone for free. He's asked me to let you all know that he's totally clued up on speeding and will take on new cases but YOU WILL HAVE TO PAY!
If you want his details, email me off line.
Few points, as advised by my solicitor, before you all start going mad.
1. All the way along they didn't contest the fact that he hadn't signed the 172, so the case was a plain speeding one.
2. This was a pre York/Mawdsley case.
3. The photos were shite.
4. He wasn't asked to take the stand.
5. Remember that only your wife or solicitor has "privilege" so they are the only ones that can fill the 172 form in for you and not get put on the stand.
FINAL POINT
Apparently my solicitors fame has spread and he's receiving calls daily. Trouble is it's mainly people who want advice over the phone for free. He's asked me to let you all know that he's totally clued up on speeding and will take on new cases but YOU WILL HAVE TO PAY!
If you want his details, email me off line.
wooooo-yay! 
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