EFILIVE - ECU - tuning/traction control

[nike 5]

Hi
I have a LS2 crate engine, with a standard GM ECU (which has been converted to manual throttle body, and LS6 cam).
I have a painless wiring loom
If I want to adjust engine tuning, Is EFILIVE what I need?

Does the standard ECU also control traction control, or is there a separate module for this.
Assuming the ECU also control the traction control. Once slippage occurs what does it do? cut ignition or cut fuel or does it apply individual brake pressure.

Is the level at which traction control cuts in adjustable (via EFILIVE?)

How many maps are installed into the ECU at any one time. Looking at DTA and some EMERALD ECUs which can switch between up to 3 maps at a flick of a switch (ie not just when it is attached to laptop. This allows a lean MOT setting to be available, alongside trackday map).

At the moment I am deciding which direction to go in. Use the ECU that I have, and adapt wirless loom to allow it to work cheapest option as I have most of the hardware.
or
to start again, using DTA or Emerald (this does involve getting them to read the crank sensor which I understand is an unusual pattern).

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[ringram]

Got a pic of the ECU you have? Did it come with the LS2?
If it did, are you sure you have the right wiring loom?
There are a few models of ECU, most/all will work with an LS2 depending on your crank pickup.

efilive will work fine, plus other guys around here and the corvette area use efilive so you will get some good support.
No point getting an aftermarket ECU it will be more of a pain to get working and just cost you money.
Stock one is good for managing idle with a electronic throttle or the IAC motor in the cable throttles. Plus will support around 1000bhp in any case with the newer 79lb@3bar high impedance injectors.

Just need to know what ECU you have and make sure you have it matching your crank pickup and wiring loom..

Depending on the model, the best you will get from the ECU is torque management, traction control is a body control function along with brakes and ABS etc.
Earlier ECU had no torque management, later ones let you map engine torque out and specify max allowed torque per gear/rpm etc. TBH, I remove most of it in my own tune because I have a variable torque management device called a throttle pedal

Does your ECU have 2 long coloured connectors, or 2 or 3 small multipin array square ones?

E38


E40


LS1

[ringram]

The grey crank sensor is 58 tooth and black 24 tooth pickup.
The old ECU wont work with the new 58 tooth cranks unless you change the wheel over to an old 24.
Also newer ECU's dont support cable throttles, so if you want a cable one then you need an older ECU and therefore crank pickup..

All fun stuff. It might have been a good idea to research some more first?

[Boosted LS1]

The new DTA Pro will read the lsx crank trigger wheel which has a hall sensor. You get launch and traction control included but no knock sensor input. Omex has a knock sensor input but I don't think they have launch and traction control yet but it's in the pipeline or so I was told. Some of the tvr guys are using emerald but I've no experience of it, you could ask them (Brummie) what he thinks or Tinker27.

Efi live is also versatile and Richard knows it inside out

[ringram]

Cool, does it read both the 24 and 58 tooth hall wheels Mike? If so that might be an easy way out if there is a mix of incompatible parts.
Also I know Tinker27 (Craig) is also running efilive these days.

[nike 5]

Hi
I do not know how to post pictures, so I have attached a link which shows the
pictures of ECU (LS1? with red and blue connectors)
Video of crank sensor wheel (24 tooth)
picture of black crank sensor
http://s248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/v8seight/

I have bought this as a failed project, so am trying to understand exactly what I have got, and which is the best direction for me to go in.

For example. Speaking to Painless (supplier of the Loom) I have their LS1 loom which is not suitable for the LS2. They can advise me how to modify wiring to allow it to work, and supply connectors which do not match up (eg coil packs).

Before I start to spend time/money adapting the LS1 Loom, I wanted to find out if the GM ECU would be able to look after the traction control in the future, and potentially control multiple throttle bodies.

Estimating the car will weigh about 700 - 750kg traction will be an issue.

Which was why the DTA (S 80 PRO) looked appealing because because of the traction/lauch function, especially as I know that the DTA is able to communicate with my dash board (AIM MXL).
The problem is that I did not think it was able to read the GM 24 tooth wheel (would happily be corrected on this).
Believe that a replacement Trigger wheel is available but unsure how easy it is to change. (Engine is out of car at moment)

But if the standard GM ECU is capable of actively controlling traction I may persevere with it, as it could be the cheapest option.

Thanks for your help.

[Boosted LS1]

ringram said:

Cool, does it read both the 24 and 58 tooth hall wheels Mike? If so that might be an easy way out if there is a mix of incompatible parts.
Also I know Tinker27 (Craig) is also running efilive these days.

The omex will read all the lsx trigger wheels. The DTA reads 36-1 and 60-2, it won't read the early ls1 wheel. They aren't especially cheap though. Emeralds cost less and I think they have 3 maps but maybe less other features. Guess you have to pick and choose very carefully.

[ringram]

nike 5 said:

Hi
I do not know how to post pictures, so I have attached a link which shows the
pictures of ECU (LS1? with red and blue connectors)
Video of crank sensor wheel (24 tooth)
picture of black crank sensor
http://s248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/v8seight/

I have bought this as a failed project, so am trying to understand exactly what I have got, and which is the best direction for me to go in.

For example. Speaking to Painless (supplier of the Loom) I have their LS1 loom which is not suitable for the LS2. They can advise me how to modify wiring to allow it to work, and supply connectors which do not match up (eg coil packs).

Before I start to spend time/money adapting the LS1 Loom, I wanted to find out if the GM ECU would be able to look after the traction control in the future, and potentially control multiple throttle bodies.

Estimating the car will weigh about 700 - 750kg traction will be an issue.

Which was why the DTA (S 80 PRO) looked appealing because because of the traction/lauch function, especially as I know that the DTA is able to communicate with my dash board (AIM MXL).
The problem is that I did not think it was able to read the GM 24 tooth wheel (would happily be corrected on this).
Believe that a replacement Trigger wheel is available but unsure how easy it is to change. (Engine is out of car at moment)

But if the standard GM ECU is capable of actively controlling traction I may persevere with it, as it could be the cheapest option.

Thanks for your help.

Yeah, sorry no traction control with that model, but it should all bolt up if you get the right conversion stuff. The injector pack connectors looked the same to me, but maybe the wiring was a little different. You will also need to extend the MAP and cam sensors to the front of the engine from the rear. In addition knock sensors are located on the side of the block and not in the valley, more extentions required. But thats simple wiring really.

Other than that the ECU will work fine even with multiple throttle bodies, you can change fueling method from MAF to either MAP or TPS fueling as you require, though you will need something like efilive to allow you to do that.

Actually there is a 2 step you can install, with an earth switch to a pin on the ecu. Basically it will limit max rpm for launch by fuel cut method, remove the earth via a switch etc and you are back to preferred speed limit. Question would be about how high rpm needs to be at the first stage as fuel cut is not the best way to limit engine speed. Throttle is, which is why in the later ETC ones throttle does the limiting.

You could probably fit a nice racelogic system to it for less than the price of a new ECU setup if you wanted traction control.

[eliot]

You could always fit a 36-1 externally on the crank (or maybe the LS1 wheel - richard?) which opens up your ECU choices considerably. You need to pin the front pulley though because there is no woodruf key in it (google 'LS1 crank pinning' or stevie will be along with a photo).

[stevieturbo]

The DTA will read the LSx trigger wheel. It can read any trigger wheel. That doesnt mean Allan has sorted the coding for it in the ecu.

Fit the ecu, spin the engine over and scope the trigger pattern. Allan will be able to advise of the trigger settings to use. Its just that he hasnt scoped the LS1 yet in order to add it.

All engines use a sensor, and teeth....so one way or another, it can be decoded.
Failing that, just throw a 36-1 or similar onto the front crank pulley like I did. Easy, sorted.
The S80Pro will communicate with the AIM MXL with a serial adaptor. I know a coupe of guys using it.

Dont some of the Gen4 engines use a more conventional tooth pattern ??


As for 1,2,3 maps. IMO, most of that is nonsense, unless you intend using different fuels, additives, nitrous etc.

Also consider who is going to be tuning the thing. They need to be familiar, and comfortable with any ecu. I dont want to knock the Emerald...but I know a few guys who tried, and then swapped. Apparently it isnt that user friendly.

IMO the DTA is a doddle to work with for the most part. Ive never used Omex, but Ive never heard bad reports about it.

[eliot]

stevieturbo said:

As for 1,2,3 maps. IMO, most of that is nonsense, unless you intend using different fuels, additives, nitrous etc.

Indeed. I have two "maps" on a switch, they are identical apart from one doesn't retard the ignition as much in boost when running tesco99/optimax. The fueling map is identical.

[Boosted LS1]

Nike 5, If you like I can fit a 36-1 onto the crankshaft for you. I have them in stock and you get to keep the original sensor position.

[nike 5]

Boosted LS1 - I am not quite in a position to buy the ECU yet. Gathering information at the moment.

But I do like the idea of one control unit to control all, and your trigger will keep the instalation neat.

Thanks for your thoughts.

[stevieturbo]

As I say...if someone scopes the LS1 trigger patterns for Allan, he can add the relevant info to the ecu.

The 24x pattern does look very strange to the eye, but Allan did assure me, that it would probably scope as something fairly easy to read. He had the wheel with him...just not an engine to spin it over properly with.

I was going to do it myself at one point, but then couldnt be arsed, as the crank sensor was too awkward to get to behind the starter. So didnt see it worth the hassle when a front pulley mounted 36-1 was working perfectly.

[tinker-27]

i run an emerald on my car but we also use std type which is very capable, i use the front pulley as a sensor ring,you could use the std ecu and maybe a race logic type set up ? emerald have traction control but not out yet.

[eliot]

stevieturbo said:

The 24x pattern does look very strange to the eye, but Allan did assure me, that it would probably scope as something fairly easy to read.

I'm sure I read somewhere that the leading edges of the wheel is somewhat wierd, but the trailing edges are simple.

[Boosted LS1]

It's a twin wheel arrangement, side by side being read by a double headed pickup/magneto. DTA could have scoped it years ago but just don't seem to have got round to it.

[stevieturbo]

Last time I contacted Allan about it, he had'nt scoped it. But was confident they could accomodate the pattern if someone did scope it.