Engine/gearbox fitting questions
Discussion
Fitted my engine today. Was all going swimmingly well but hit a couple of snags. First concern is that the rear end of the sump is just about resting on the chassis cross member. I ended up using a cork tile as packing and can't pull this out without jacking the engine up. The drain plug is immediately above the cross member and it looks like dropping the oil won't be much fun 
Second one is that I just can't get the gearbox cross member to line up with the chassis lugs - it's as if the engine/gearbox needs to move forwards by almost half an inch. I can't really see how this can be, it's slotted into the engine mounts fine and they allow only a miniscule amount of play. I know the cross member isn't symmetrical in either plane, and am confident I've got it the right way round. The gearbox is a G50/00 (short).
Also can't fathom how to sort the gearbox breather - the top bung is tight up underneath one of the chassis cross members. I can see a couple of other places on the box I might be able to tap into, but it certainly doesn't look like any of the pics on the build CD.
Any suggestions welcome as I was hoping to get lots done tomorrow but can't ring the factory till Monday!
Second one is that I just can't get the gearbox cross member to line up with the chassis lugs - it's as if the engine/gearbox needs to move forwards by almost half an inch. I can't really see how this can be, it's slotted into the engine mounts fine and they allow only a miniscule amount of play. I know the cross member isn't symmetrical in either plane, and am confident I've got it the right way round. The gearbox is a G50/00 (short).
Also can't fathom how to sort the gearbox breather - the top bung is tight up underneath one of the chassis cross members. I can see a couple of other places on the box I might be able to tap into, but it certainly doesn't look like any of the pics on the build CD.
Any suggestions welcome as I was hoping to get lots done tomorrow but can't ring the factory till Monday!
There's not a lot of clearance between the winged sump that AS provide and the bottom of the chassis. I think it's about 3-4mm with my G50/03 box attached. The oil drain seems to be on the edge of the chassis rail on my car. It didn't make as much mess as I feared when I drained a little oil the other week. YMMV.
Not sure I can help with the gearbox placement issue as I run a different box. I noticed that my box didn't quite match other peoples cars either even when they were running notionally the same box. I fear that there may be many sub-variants of sub-variants of G50 boxes.
My gearbox filler ended up under a chassis member as well... I put a hole in an inspection cover (?) for the diff that was pretty much at the top of the box once it was inverted. Had to buy some longer braided hose to make the breather fit neatly with the both the gearbox and main catchtank fitted though.
Not sure I can help with the gearbox placement issue as I run a different box. I noticed that my box didn't quite match other peoples cars either even when they were running notionally the same box. I fear that there may be many sub-variants of sub-variants of G50 boxes.
My gearbox filler ended up under a chassis member as well... I put a hole in an inspection cover (?) for the diff that was pretty much at the top of the box once it was inverted. Had to buy some longer braided hose to make the breather fit neatly with the both the gearbox and main catchtank fitted though.
Call the factory for help. I elected to return the sump supplied by AS and have one made by Canton that actually fit the car. It has a sump depth of 7 inches, it doesn't hang below that car in a vulnerable position.
The plates mentioned above are to allow forward positioning of the motor by 1 inch and are intended to allow fitting the G50/52. They did not make a significant change in the height of my motor within the chassis.
Give Ted or Richard a call, I have found that if you have problems they want to hear from you and have the best answer within seconds. They have done what you are doing several times.
Ken
The plates mentioned above are to allow forward positioning of the motor by 1 inch and are intended to allow fitting the G50/52. They did not make a significant change in the height of my motor within the chassis.
Give Ted or Richard a call, I have found that if you have problems they want to hear from you and have the best answer within seconds. They have done what you are doing several times.
Ken
I too had major problems with 7.5" sump clearance. Factory suggested washers under engine mounts but that doesn't lift it that much. Eventually like Ken I gave up and got an alternative 7" deep one from Canton. Remember to get the pickup as well and a 20mm bung for the oil level sender hole if sump you order has this. Cost me about £300 from Ultimate Spares. I've just punted the 7.5" deep item on e-bay for £150 so not that bad. My engine was not from Am Speed so I can't really get on factory's case for the incompatibility.
There are adapters available that move the engine forward and could be made to lift it as well I think. Also, you could probably move the engine forward a small amount by grinding a slice of the trailing edge of the chassis mount plates and taking up slack within mounts with washers.
I have a G50/03 and the rear bracket did need a bit of "persuasion" to fit, but it was quite flexible until bolted up. Short box bracket different of course. My g/box drain plug is under the X member, but as mentioned, easy altetrnative is to remove and tap the diamond shaped inspection plate. My breather kit fitted this OK and I think there are some pictures on build CD showing this arrangement, or maybe on CJ's website.
There are adapters available that move the engine forward and could be made to lift it as well I think. Also, you could probably move the engine forward a small amount by grinding a slice of the trailing edge of the chassis mount plates and taking up slack within mounts with washers.
I have a G50/03 and the rear bracket did need a bit of "persuasion" to fit, but it was quite flexible until bolted up. Short box bracket different of course. My g/box drain plug is under the X member, but as mentioned, easy altetrnative is to remove and tap the diamond shaped inspection plate. My breather kit fitted this OK and I think there are some pictures on build CD showing this arrangement, or maybe on CJ's website.
Thanks Ken and George.
I'll be calling the factory tomorrow morning. Looking through CJ's site there's a nice pic of his engine mount adapters here and here. It looks like a pair of these moving the engine forwards and upwards a little will do the trick, altohugh there isn't much room between gearbox and the upper chassis cross member.
I'm hoping to sort this without taking the whole lot out again. The thought of changing the oil pan doesn't exactly appeal. I haven't had it a week yet!
I'd been hoping to get it all connected up today but daren't go ahead now. Always a problem when you plan to get a lot done in a weekend - things go wrong and you have to wait till Monday to talk to the factory. What did people do before we had web forums like this?
I'll be calling the factory tomorrow morning. Looking through CJ's site there's a nice pic of his engine mount adapters here and here. It looks like a pair of these moving the engine forwards and upwards a little will do the trick, altohugh there isn't much room between gearbox and the upper chassis cross member.
I'm hoping to sort this without taking the whole lot out again. The thought of changing the oil pan doesn't exactly appeal. I haven't had it a week yet!
I'd been hoping to get it all connected up today but daren't go ahead now. Always a problem when you plan to get a lot done in a weekend - things go wrong and you have to wait till Monday to talk to the factory. What did people do before we had web forums like this?
I am suprised that the pan can be changed from 7.5 inch to a 7 inch without it interfering with the oil pickup. I had always thought the pan to pickup clearance was less than 0.5 inch. The Small Block Chevy Performance book suggests that the clearance should be 0.25 inch.
I went for 7 inch Canton 15-240. It's still close to the cross member though.
I went for 7 inch Canton 15-240. It's still close to the cross member though.
pashby said:
I am suprised that the pan can be changed from 7.5 inch to a 7 inch without it interfering with the oil pickup. I had always thought the pan to pickup clearance was less than 0.5 inch. The Small Block Chevy Performance book suggests that the clearance should be 0.25 inch.
I went for 7 inch Canton 15-240. It's still close to the cross member though.
Got to get a pick up from Canton to match the pan if you change
Canton reported that they could make a pan that was a little over 6 inches deep with a stock size pump and the correct pickup.
The idea with a wet sump is to get the oil as far away from the crank as possible, I doubt that 1 inch will make a significant difference in the power output of the motor or the stability of the oil supply. It will however make a big difference in the suseptability of the pan to damage and ease oil changes.
ken
The idea with a wet sump is to get the oil as far away from the crank as possible, I doubt that 1 inch will make a significant difference in the power output of the motor or the stability of the oil supply. It will however make a big difference in the suseptability of the pan to damage and ease oil changes.
ken
I realise that Canton and others can supply the pickup tube to match the oil pans depth.
My last comment should also have gone on to mention that often the pickup tube is tack welded so that removing and replacing the tube is not straight forward. Canton recommend welding. Most performance engine build books suggest a tack weld.
My last comment should also have gone on to mention that often the pickup tube is tack welded so that removing and replacing the tube is not straight forward. Canton recommend welding. Most performance engine build books suggest a tack weld.
Yes, I've seen the recommendation to tack weld pickup - the Canton pickups for both my 7.5" and 7" had a lug through which you insert one of the oil pump cover bolts. This prevents the pick up coming loose and also ensure it is at the correct rotation relative to pump. I think the tack weld is probably meant for pick ups which do not have such a lug, the press fit is not that secure. Certainly Real Steel did not tack weld mine (which was handy when I changed it).
>> Edited by gdr on Sunday 5th October 18:17
>> Edited by gdr on Sunday 5th October 18:17
Canton say:
All of our chevy pickup tubes are equipped with two brackets. The first is a “hammer” bracket. This bracket allows for easy installation without risk of damage to the tube or cup. The second feature is a support bracket that bolts to the bottom of the pump. Pickup tubes should still be welded to the pump at the inlet for a positive and secure fit.
Looks like they still expect weld.
All of our chevy pickup tubes are equipped with two brackets. The first is a “hammer” bracket. This bracket allows for easy installation without risk of damage to the tube or cup. The second feature is a support bracket that bolts to the bottom of the pump. Pickup tubes should still be welded to the pump at the inlet for a positive and secure fit.
Looks like they still expect weld.
OK, sorted. 
The sump clearance was solved by adding some washers between the engine mount top bolts and the block. I added 3 washers onto each bolt which gave a thickness of 6mm, my sump clearance is now about 4mm.
Following discussion with Andy in the factory it seems clear my engine is in the correct position fore/aft wise, it's just the configruration of the short gearbox that's the issue. In the end I managed to get the bolts through the cross brace into the chassis lugs by levering the rubber bushes across.
Got everything together this evening and fired her up. Sounds absolutely awesome!
My eyes are still stinging from the fumes though!
Thanks for all the helpful suggestions guys. I'll be back soon with more questions!
The sump clearance was solved by adding some washers between the engine mount top bolts and the block. I added 3 washers onto each bolt which gave a thickness of 6mm, my sump clearance is now about 4mm.
Following discussion with Andy in the factory it seems clear my engine is in the correct position fore/aft wise, it's just the configruration of the short gearbox that's the issue. In the end I managed to get the bolts through the cross brace into the chassis lugs by levering the rubber bushes across.
Got everything together this evening and fired her up. Sounds absolutely awesome!
My eyes are still stinging from the fumes though! Thanks for all the helpful suggestions guys. I'll be back soon with more questions!
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