RE: Chief Constable Courts More Criticism
Friday 1st February 2002
Chief Constable Courts More Criticism
Why is the traffic spokesman for the Association of Chief Police Officers so out of step with general thinking on speed limiters?
Discussion
I think i have a better and cheeper solution for their "driver operated limiter". its called a brain. it can be activated at will and requieres no switches or fitting in most cases. it has built in navigation capability and the ability to judge situations for saftey. it is fully compatible with all road conditions and can adjust its speed setting instaneously based on its enviroment. Also to ease the lot of the burdoned policeman an indicator showing that its switched off can be fittted in the form of a baseball cap worn backwards.
The phrase using a sledgehammer to crack a nut springs to mind. Clearly such a device would have serious implications when it came to safe over-taking. I shudder to think of the result, mid-overtake, should the device kick in and prevent the driver from quickly and safely passing the vehicle in front.
From a practical point of view the following considerations spring to mind.
Firstly, who is to pay for the fitting of such a device?
Is it to be retrofitted or just applicable to vehicles manufactured after a certain date?
How is it to be policed? I am sure that a practice would quickly spring-up of rendering the devices inoperable whilst making them look simply faulty. As a result it would be difficult to prove that the driver was aware of the problem and thus culpable under the appropriate legislation. Similarly, if there was ‘no-fault’ culpability i.e. a driver of as vehicle with a non-functioning device was responsible whether he knew of the device’s failure or not, this would appear to be out of line with the various tests of reasonableness that currently apply to offences relating to vehicle condition.
We know that the technology exists as it is already in place on many German performance cars such as BMW and Mercedes whose top speeds are limited to 155mph. As I understand it though, this limitation is across the board. The statutory enforcement of speed limited on UK only vehicles would require specific attention by the manufacturers which would be likely to raise the coat of a UK spec’d vehicle and complicate the process of buying vehicles on the continent. Whether or not it could be argued that this would amount to restraint of trade is moot.
What is clear is that car manufacturers, particularly those specialising in performance cars, a very fertile market in the UK, are unlikely to be enamoured with any such legislation and would no doubt bring pressure to bear on our domestic government. Couple to this the fact that, of the few domestic car manufacturers that we have, such as TVR, Caterham etc. many specialise in performance cars. I doubt that any government wishing to see the homegrown economy flourish would want to risk cutting market-share by introducing legislation to effectively curtail the use of the products built by these companies.
Most authorities on the subject will acknowledge that a speed limit of 70 provides merely a benchmark and the majority of traffic exceeds this limit on our motorways. Resistance to raise the limit stems from the assumption that we will then all drive that little bit faster and continue to exceed whatever limit is imposed by a similar margin. What I think most of us also acknowledge is that, as a result, the approach to enforcing speed limits on our roads should be approached with the same flexibility and any attempt to apply ‘the-letter-of-the-law is doomed to failure – illustrated perfectly by the ‘no-tolerance’ speed enforcement fiasco of recent times.
Finally, aside from the aforementioned practical and philosophical considerations, the imposition of speed limits such as those proposed seem to fly in the face of logic. It is widely accepted that our fastest road, i.e. our motorways is also our safest. Given this then how will a speed limiter help to cut the risk of RTAs when most of these happen on roads with a much lower speed limit? If we even accept that speed is a major factor in RTAs (and I strongly refute this claim) then a 70mph limiter will have little impact on such roads.
Let us hope that public opinion and common sense prevail in this debate.
From a practical point of view the following considerations spring to mind.
Firstly, who is to pay for the fitting of such a device?
Is it to be retrofitted or just applicable to vehicles manufactured after a certain date?
How is it to be policed? I am sure that a practice would quickly spring-up of rendering the devices inoperable whilst making them look simply faulty. As a result it would be difficult to prove that the driver was aware of the problem and thus culpable under the appropriate legislation. Similarly, if there was ‘no-fault’ culpability i.e. a driver of as vehicle with a non-functioning device was responsible whether he knew of the device’s failure or not, this would appear to be out of line with the various tests of reasonableness that currently apply to offences relating to vehicle condition.
We know that the technology exists as it is already in place on many German performance cars such as BMW and Mercedes whose top speeds are limited to 155mph. As I understand it though, this limitation is across the board. The statutory enforcement of speed limited on UK only vehicles would require specific attention by the manufacturers which would be likely to raise the coat of a UK spec’d vehicle and complicate the process of buying vehicles on the continent. Whether or not it could be argued that this would amount to restraint of trade is moot.
What is clear is that car manufacturers, particularly those specialising in performance cars, a very fertile market in the UK, are unlikely to be enamoured with any such legislation and would no doubt bring pressure to bear on our domestic government. Couple to this the fact that, of the few domestic car manufacturers that we have, such as TVR, Caterham etc. many specialise in performance cars. I doubt that any government wishing to see the homegrown economy flourish would want to risk cutting market-share by introducing legislation to effectively curtail the use of the products built by these companies.
Most authorities on the subject will acknowledge that a speed limit of 70 provides merely a benchmark and the majority of traffic exceeds this limit on our motorways. Resistance to raise the limit stems from the assumption that we will then all drive that little bit faster and continue to exceed whatever limit is imposed by a similar margin. What I think most of us also acknowledge is that, as a result, the approach to enforcing speed limits on our roads should be approached with the same flexibility and any attempt to apply ‘the-letter-of-the-law is doomed to failure – illustrated perfectly by the ‘no-tolerance’ speed enforcement fiasco of recent times.
Finally, aside from the aforementioned practical and philosophical considerations, the imposition of speed limits such as those proposed seem to fly in the face of logic. It is widely accepted that our fastest road, i.e. our motorways is also our safest. Given this then how will a speed limiter help to cut the risk of RTAs when most of these happen on roads with a much lower speed limit? If we even accept that speed is a major factor in RTAs (and I strongly refute this claim) then a 70mph limiter will have little impact on such roads.
Let us hope that public opinion and common sense prevail in this debate.
Surely we will always have the right to remove speed limiters on the grounds that they are clearly dangerous. By the same logic I drive without a seatbelt when occasionally faced with the possibility that the road may become flooded very quickly and I need to be able to make a quick exit from the car. If anyone questions my judgement I will ignore them., just as I would with respect to the speed limiter.
Steve, (put ya pie down I dont want you to choke) this slower speed mob seems to be a conglomeration of all the nutters in the UK. Surely they are a target for a good kicking, perhaps we can find out which pub they go in and have a pistonheads pro speed meeting the same night? 
>> Edited by nonegreen on Saturday 2nd February 01:42
>> Edited by nonegreen on Saturday 2nd February 01:42
quote:
Steve, (put ya pie down I dont want you to choke) this slower speed mob seems to be a conglomeration of all the nutters in the UK. Surely they are a target for a good kicking, perhaps we can find out which pub they go in and have a pistonheads pro speed meeting the same night?
Cheeky b****r. How come they keep putting poncy cup holders in new cars these days? What you need is a pie holder so you can experience two of life's little pleasures simultaneously.
We'd be lucky to catch them. Their nights out in the pub are always very short because it takes them so long to get there
Steve
quote:
quote:
Steve, (put ya pie down I dont want you to choke) this slower speed mob seems to be a conglomeration of all the nutters in the UK. Surely they are a target for a good kicking, perhaps we can find out which pub they go in and have a pistonheads pro speed meeting the same night?
Cheeky b****r. How come they keep putting poncy cup holders in new cars these days? What you need is a pie holder so you can experience two of life's little pleasures simultaneously.
We'd be lucky to catch them. Their nights out in the pub are always very short because it takes them so long to get there
Steve
Don't they come as standard on TVR's then? The Hollands Pie factory is in Oswaldtwistle not far from Blackpool, so there is a local supply of pies as well. Can you imagine Cleese in his next Bond movie introducing the latest gadjets and of course the Pie holders with special compartments for meat and potato and cheese and onion. " Russian Vodka, Foix gras, Pluvers eggs, Baluga caviar, Hollands pies, mild beer".... the mind boggles.
quote:
Can you imagine Cleese in his next Bond movie introducing the latest gadjets and of course the Pie holders with special compartments for meat and potato and cheese and onion. .
Er, it's Steak & Kidney and Cheese & Onion. You should remember that, how many times have you wheelbarrowed me home from the pub via the chip shop?
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