Thursday 6th November 2008

Fastest Fall in 17 Years

October new car sales figures show decline as expected

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Registrations lowest in over a decade

As Pistonheads predicted on Monday, new car sales for the UK fell in October in-line with the rest of Europe and the USA.

The Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) found new car sales down by 23% on the same month last year, with just 128,352 units sold.

There were some hopes that the usual surge in new car sales in October change would help to boost ailing revenues in the UK motor trade. October commonly accounts for around 6.9% of annual sales, however this year sales fell for the sixth successive month, and new car sales so-far this year have totalled just 1.92 million. This is 8.8% down on 2007.

In light of today's figures, the SMMT has revised its forecast for sales in 2008 down to just 2.15 million vehicles, 10.7% down on last year.

Today's report shows that the top 5 best-selling cars so far this year have been the Ford Focus, Vauxhall Corsa, Vauxhall Astra, Ford Fiesta and Volkswagen Golf (in that order). The only manufacturers to actually improve volumes in the month included some surprises, such as Dodge, Jaguar and Volvo.

The report also shows a growth in sales of diesels, whose market share has grown to 45.6%. However, this could soon take a tumble if the price of diesel remains disproportionately high, and if expected Euro 5 regulations bring an end to the era of smooth diesels as many analysts are predicting.

SMMT chief executive Paul Everitt warned "October has proved another difficult month for the UK motor industry and action is needed to help restore consumer confidence and encourage buyers back to the showrooms."

He added "Cuts in interest rates that are swiftly passed on to consumers, scrapping planned increases in VED and maintaining public expenditure on new vehicles are essential parts of the package required by the industry."

Mr Everitt also felt that Europe had a part to play in keeping the market alive and looking forward, stating that "there is also a clear role for European action to support continued investment in new, lower carbon vehicle technologies."

 

[Mannginger]

What's that point about Euro5 and "Smooth Diesels"?

I've not heard that before, is the diesel about to become a horrible lumpy thing again for the sake of the polar bears?

[bob1179]

Mannginger said:

What's that point about Euro5 and "Smooth Diesels"?

I've not heard that before, is the diesel about to become a horrible lumpy thing again for the sake of the polar bears?

I was just about to ask the same question, I'd love to know what the new legislation will do to affect new engines?

[E21_Ross]

why on earth have the end to 'smooth diesels' what utter crap.

[V8OWNER]

all i have is this for you:

The Euro 5 Regulation proposes to set tighter emission limits of particles and of NOx for new cars and vans sold in the EU market (e.g. 80% cut in the emission limit for particulate matter from diesel cars).

quoted from a press release...

[Speedy Surveyor]

V8OWNER said:

all i have is this for you:

The Euro 5 Regulation proposes to set tighter emission limits of particles and of NOx for new cars and vans sold in the EU market (e.g. 80% cut in the emission limit for particulate matter from diesel cars).

quoted from a press release...

FFS. So if that spells the end of diesels then.....people will buy petrol cars which have higher emissions so therefore Co2 emissions would go up?

Why pick on cars anyway? They produce a small percentage of global Co2 emissions....oh hang on, yes easy target and a good money spinner. Sorry forgot.

[Mr Gear]

E21_Ross said:

why on earth have the end to 'smooth diesels' what utter crap.

I think what they are trying to say is that new Euro 5 rules are so tough that many big diesels will fail. As a result, you won't get much choice of diesels in the showroom.

[astrsxi77]

"and if expected Euro 5 regulations bring an end to the era of smooth diesels as many analysts are predicting."

Oh no...ha ha ha...Terrible news!...haaa haaa haaa......

[V8OWNER]

have to admit thats what i was thinking...!

[zimmerman]

E21_Ross said:

why on earth have the end to 'smooth diesels' what utter crap.

From Autoexpress:

[I] "Strict new Euro V emissions regulations, which come into effect next year, are forcing manufacturers to compromise on how silky-smooth their oil-burners can be. And it’s all for the sake of low CO2 output. One car that has been affected is the new Vauxhall Insignia (above).

A spokesman said: “The 2.0-litre CDTi engines need to take full advantage of sophisticated combustion strategies, multi-fuel injections and high exhaust gas recirculation rates to reduce nitrogen oxides and comply with Euro V emissions, while at the same time maintaining excellent mpg and performance. So, noise may increase slightly due to delayed combustion and a higher in-cylinder pressure gradient.”

And greater sound levels aren’t the only side effect, because vibration or diesel ‘clatter’ is set to rise, too – as Ford’s product program chief Joe Bakaj explained: “The thin gearbox oils we must use to get the economy figures demanded by Euro V means more vibrations make their way into the cabin.” [/I]

Edited by zimmerman on Thursday 6th November 13:41

[dublet]

astrsxi77 said:

"and if expected Euro 5 regulations bring an end to the era of smooth diesels as many analysts are predicting."

Oh no...ha ha ha...Terrible news!...haaa haaa haaa......

That means diesel owners (such as me) switching to petrol cars again. Considering that 45% of car sales are diesels, that could mean a rather large increase in the demand for petrol, and therefore much higher petrol prices! Hello £1.50/l!

Happy days!

[bencollins]

i.e. back to higher compression 18:1 etc from the 16.5:1 about now.

"As Pistonheads predicted on Monday, new car sales for the UK fell in October in-line with the rest of Europe and the USA."
omg NOSTRADAMUS IS ALIVE!!!!

[varsas]

Speedy Surveyor said:

FFS. So if that spells the end of diesels then.....people will buy petrol cars which have higher emissions so therefore Co2 emissions would go up?

Why pick on cars anyway? They produce a small percentage of global Co2 emissions....oh hang on, yes easy target and a good money spinner. Sorry forgot.

It's a myth that diesels have lower emissions. Co2 is indeed lower but because they don't run stociomatic (perfect air/fuel rate) much of the time other emissions (NoX, particulates basically every other emission) are higher, which is why diesels are banned from tokyo/california etc and petrols are not.

[Speedy Surveyor]

varsas said:

Speedy Surveyor said:

FFS. So if that spells the end of diesels then.....people will buy petrol cars which have higher emissions so therefore Co2 emissions would go up?

Why pick on cars anyway? They produce a small percentage of global Co2 emissions....oh hang on, yes easy target and a good money spinner. Sorry forgot.

It's a myth that diesels have lower emissions. Co2 is indeed lower but because they don't run stociomatic (perfect air/fuel rate) much of the time other emissions (NoX, particulates basically every other emission) are higher, which is why diesels are banned from tokyo/california etc and petrols are not.

Ok so does that mean that they are, in fact, more 'harmful' to the environment?

[Crazy Fool]

Speedy Surveyor said:

varsas said:

Speedy Surveyor said:

FFS. So if that spells the end of diesels then.....people will buy petrol cars which have higher emissions so therefore Co2 emissions would go up?

Why pick on cars anyway? They produce a small percentage of global Co2 emissions....oh hang on, yes easy target and a good money spinner. Sorry forgot.

It's a myth that diesels have lower emissions. Co2 is indeed lower but because they don't run stociomatic (perfect air/fuel rate) much of the time other emissions (NoX, particulates basically every other emission) are higher, which is why diesels are banned from tokyo/california etc and petrols are not.

Ok so does that mean that they are, in fact, more 'harmful' to the environment?

Well that cloud of black smoke you get when opening the throttle isn't puppies and little bunny rabbits.

[H22K]

cleaner is fine, but I burn 40% less diesel in my 320d than I would petrol in a 320i.

Still, it's only going to affect brand new cars, and I don't intend on upgrading to a factory fresh 335d...mapped...

[Speedy Surveyor]

Crazy Fool said:

Speedy Surveyor said:

varsas said:

Speedy Surveyor said:

FFS. So if that spells the end of diesels then.....people will buy petrol cars which have higher emissions so therefore Co2 emissions would go up?

Why pick on cars anyway? They produce a small percentage of global Co2 emissions....oh hang on, yes easy target and a good money spinner. Sorry forgot.

It's a myth that diesels have lower emissions. Co2 is indeed lower but because they don't run stociomatic (perfect air/fuel rate) much of the time other emissions (NoX, particulates basically every other emission) are higher, which is why diesels are banned from tokyo/california etc and petrols are not.

Ok so does that mean that they are, in fact, more 'harmful' to the environment?

Well that cloud of black smoke you get when opening the throttle isn't puppies and little bunny rabbits.

Really? I though they lapped that type of thing up.

I'm just a little bit confused. I've always understood diesels to be more environmentally friendly overall hence the lower road tax and the fact that the government years ago encouraged people to buy diesels by placing less tax on it.

Edited by Speedy Surveyor on Thursday 6th November 14:58

[H22K]

exactly.

fast forward to 2008, when nearly half of all cars sold are diesel, and the position has to be reconsidered because people are suddenly not having to buy so much fuel.

For some strange reason, this positive benefit needs to be attended to by the powers that be because thats a load less tax!

where I used to pay 200 per year for tax and get 25mpg from my MV6 omega, I now pay 135 and get nearly 60mpg from my turbo weasel. The fact I pay 10-15% more for my fuel is far outweighed when I travel the 600 mile return journey to see the mrs every weekend.

[F i F]

The usual bollards being spouted on PH about diesels.
If you look you will see that the same standard on PM is being applied to diesel and petrol from 2009.09

http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/eu/ld.php

[astrsxi77]

Speedy Surveyor said:

Crazy Fool said:

Speedy Surveyor said:

varsas said:

Speedy Surveyor said:

FFS. So if that spells the end of diesels then.....people will buy petrol cars which have higher emissions so therefore Co2 emissions would go up?

Why pick on cars anyway? They produce a small percentage of global Co2 emissions....oh hang on, yes easy target and a good money spinner. Sorry forgot.

It's a myth that diesels have lower emissions. Co2 is indeed lower but because they don't run stociomatic (perfect air/fuel rate) much of the time other emissions (NoX, particulates basically every other emission) are higher, which is why diesels are banned from tokyo/california etc and petrols are not.

Ok so does that mean that they are, in fact, more 'harmful' to the environment?

Well that cloud of black smoke you get when opening the throttle isn't puppies and little bunny rabbits.

Really? I though they lapped that type of thing up.

I'm just a little bit confused. I've always understood diesels to be more environmentally friendly overall hence the lower road tax and the fact that the government years ago encouraged people to buy diesels by placing less tax on it.

Edited by Speedy Surveyor on Thursday 6th November 14:58

That's because many people have been misguided by politician's total lack of unstanding as to what vehicle pollution is. Their recent propaganda has been based on CO2 and not proven pollutants i.e. that black smoke, full of unburned particulants.

It would seem that it is fine to increase the risk of asthma and lung cancer in the population if it means that sacred-cow CO2 is reduced

I have just returned from holiday in Louisiana and believe me, whatever we are forced to do to reduce C02 in Europe will be a total waste of time as long as places like the US and China continue with their current lifestyles.

[Speedy Surveyor]

Ok, so basically diesels spout less Co2 but more of those nasty particles which are harmful to those lovely little bunnys? Well that's cleared that up. I hope.

So we can either all drive petrols and get flooded by the effects of global boring or all drive diesels, not get flooded but suffer with asthma and then die of lung cancer. What a choice. The world is doomed!

Edited by Speedy Surveyor on Thursday 6th November 16:37