Engine stop @ traffic light then no more start..

[302 Ci]

Hello everyone.

Recently "Happy" owner of a terrific Griffith 500 serpentine mod. 1995,i was just taking little good time with the monster this evening like i do 1 or 2 times/week actually then suddendly,at traffic light,the engine stopped and never restart.
Starter turns normally first time but really "slower" second time and the alarm worked correctly on/off.
The car didn't roll a lot those bad & rainy days and stay outside but i make it turn 15 minutes day in my garden to evacuate wet and keep batery a bit charged.
I do not know the age of the battery because i got the car since 2 months only.( it maybe can be the problem..and in that case,what is the exact reference of the battery please ? )anyway i will check ECU and ignition fuse tomorow first.
If anyone gets an idea abour the trouble ,thank you in advance about a good answer,the car is actually parked in the police parking just near it felt down..They were cool with me when they saw the beast and told me to park her there.( but i have to wake up early tomorrow..)
Sorry for my unelegant English but i am a little frenchy so i do my best to explain the situation.
I hope for a solution from the experts,
regards.
302 Ci..

[Peter66]

Hi 302 Ci,

It could well be a battery that is not charged enough. 15 minutes running (Probably with low revs, because it's still cold) will not charge it properly. It's better to take it out for a longer drive if possible. I would advice to buy a trickle charger for the battery. There are many posts on this forum about it.
You can check if the battery is bad by looking at the lights. If the lights are bright than the battery is OK and you have a starter motor problem.

Good luck,

Peter

[302 Ci]

Thank you Peter. : )

[GreenV8S]

If the battery was flat enough to stop a running engine, there wouldn't be enough juice left to crank the engine over afterwards. I'm afraid that you probably have a fuel or ignition fault, but it would need more investigation to track it down. Fortunately both systems are pretty simple and if you get it to a decent mechanic he should have no trouble finding the problem.

[DarkMatter]

Did the engine just die out, or did it stall?

Peter has given you good advice about the battery, but it is possible that your car may be suffering from the 'hot start' problem. The symptoms are that the starter motor cannot turn the engine when it is hot. It may be worth searching the forums for information on 'hot start problem'.

[steve-V8s]

DarkMatter said:

Did the engine just die out, or did it stall?

Yes I thought that. The key thing here is did the engine stop on it’s own or was it accidentally stalled by the driver.

[302 Ci]

Thank you all for those friendly answers.

News of the day :

I roughly woke up early this morning and goes to the police parking.I usually believe in my good star so i first turned the key to see what happen..The starter turns normally then the engine starts .
Immediatly i go back to my house and no problem to reach it.
After few hours today i re-try to start then ok engine runs.I wait for normal fonction temp. then electrical coolers starts.I wait 5 minutes more then cut.
I immediatly tried to start again and first the starter roll normally but no engine start.
Second try,the starter turn slower & slower and no engine starts.
I will go to see the "Hot start problems" because i think i will find intersting answers about my probs.
By the way,the batery seems in low charge ( around 9 amp then quickly around 6,7 amp after 5 min of charge and actually around 2 amp after only 1 hour..)
I think i will change batterry for the winter soon but
1 ) Is the action is difficult & what is the way to do it ?
2 ) what is the exact references please ( amp,size,left/right +/- )
Thank you in advance

302 Ci.

Edited by 302 Ci on Sunday 9th November 16:19

[Hedgehopper]

Very important that you buy a battery with high cranking power as it's a big engine with a high compression. I bought a Varta E12 680 amp battery which in the UK has a 5 year warranty.

To remove the old battery and box mark around base of box with a pencil so you know exactly how to reposition it later. Now lay on your side and reaching under the car remove the two bolts that go through the floor into the battery box. Go easy at it could tear the embedded nut out of the bottom of the box, if it does you will have to Araldite it back.

Suggest you take the battery box with you to the battery dealer to make sure it fits. If you buy the Varta you will need to trim the feet off with a hacksaw or sharp knife. Also make sure the terminals are the correct way round or the battery cables won't reach.

Good luck, hope it solves the problem.

[sumoone]

just a small hint of advice.....

being lazy and deciding to take up halfords offer of we'll fit it......

i asked for a replacement battery for my griff 500...i was quoted 20 pounds for the fit at nationwide service centre next to the halfords branch


i walked the battery to them and after they put my car on the ramp it still took them 25 minutes to fit...

my battery was a reasonable price and 20 pounds for fitting i feel is a steal ! IMHO

if you can't start your car then perhaps buy the battery and call your breakdown people as long as you have home start or equivalent.

Mark

[302 Ci]

Hello all.

News of the world..
New battery in-board after a "long" period of self-control.
Full of hope i turn the key ans observe a real "powerful" stater then quick engine start.
I do the " hot engine" test and after 10 minutes,engine stopped...again.
Sad thoughts .I wait 1/2 hour then it starts again without hesitation.
I think i am real close to the "Hot start problems" but if i read topic about,the symptoms seems to be only for starting but i didn't notice any engine cut off in the others cases.
Last precisions maybe about this last point to confirm the buying of the low coast kit to fix it anyone ?

Thanks in advance.

302 Ci

[griffdude]

This might help

http://www.djbeer.hostingbt.com/id32.html

[Uncle Fester]

Next time this happens, take the fuel cap off and check that the tank is breathing properly.Listen if there is a big hiss when you remove the cap.

But always fit the hot start kit anyway.

[302 Ci]

You are right to say that Uncle Fester because i think really now it is "something else" than the "hot start problem" because starter works each now full power with new battery ( cold or hot ) but the "engine" refuse to start and "STOP ALL ALONE " when it is hot..
My petrol tank is very low actually and i noticed a high gas pressure at the opening cap.Maybe the electrical petrol pump doesn't appreciate this but in this case it will not start anymore few time later when engine is cold.
Anyway many thanks for all contributors,it is always nice to feel helped like this when you have absolutely no idea about the trouble ( and in France i do not have "an absolute specialist" of Griffith 500..we are maybe 20 here.. ).
I continue the investigations..

302Ci

[GreenV8S]

When the problem occurs, if you switch the ignition on do you hear the fuel pump run for a couple of seconds? If not, I'd suspect a failing fuel pump relay. One common symptom is that they work OK when they're cold but then break down 10-15 minutes later.

[Barreti]

This is wonderful reading. Does anyone else feel like they're listening in the Flying Doctors emergency channel

[302 Ci]

And it "deeply rules OK".

Because we all really love our monsters..

Edited by 302 Ci on Monday 10th November 22:52

[302 Ci]

Anyway,GreenV8,i hear the Fuel pump each starts but i will change quickly all "critical" relays like Fuel and ignition to be sure.( they have more than 10 years all i think..)
I just doesn't find it in the TVR manual ( the fuel pump relay )
Someone could tell me where it is and if there is an aftermarket reference for it ?
This morning the time before the engine cut is shorter & shorter..
Thanks

302 Ci

[kbear]

The ecu and fuel pump relays are just hanging on loom near the ECU in your passenger foot well, not on the fuse box. If the are the originals from new they will be silver bosch ones. You can see what they look like here http://www.tvrspareparts.com/ search for "fuel pump relay"

You can swap them with normal auto relays just to test. I think they are more expensive as the coil is low power, but I'm not 100% sure on this.

Edited by kbear on Tuesday 11th November 11:38

[302 Ci]

TY kbear for the link,i'd just bought new relays for Fuel pump & generics for secure.
After you told me it was Grey original Bosch,i confirm they are,then after a new failure in hot time i switched with the other Bosch with same reference just near.
No starts in anyway before a long time of cooling.
I am suspicious about ignition trouble and not fuel pump because the engine cut is direct without any latency ( when it is petrol problem ,the engine decrease more or less regularly with few small restarts ) exactly like an ECU ingnition failure or an alarm/immobiliser dysfonction and the temperature seems to be the major point of the failure.
I will obviously send the car to my mechanic but i try to do all the "regular and easy" electrical ways to fix it before this extremity.
The car was already in the garage 1 month ago for an electric cooler relays overheat ( in paris traffic..)the twin electrical track is brand new now.
Fortunatly,I am a bit accustom with electrical Gremlins,my previous car was a Porsche 928..
But it is not a good reason to continue the malediction

[GreenV8S]

kbear said:

You can swap them with normal auto relays just to test.

You can do this temporarily just to help diagnose the problem or to get you home, but if you leave an ordinary automotive changeover relay in there it will flatten the battery. You should replace it with the identical Bosch twin pole relay or one meeting the same electrical spec.