STI - PPP or not?
Discussion
1. Forget PPP (£1600 - £2000) as there are better and cheaper aftermarket alternatives that will give more power, better driveability and a nicer noise. Standard Sti only needs stainless steel aftermarket exhaust system and a couple of other mods + mapping e.g. decat uppipe & centerpipe, high flow 100CEL or 200CEL sports catted downpipe, sports backbox, Performance flat panel air filter, Snorkus delete modificaton, walbro 255lph fuel pump and mapping = 320-330bhp + 25mpg on a run no probs!!Get the mods done first then mapped straight afterwards!!
Costings: c.£500 for exhaust and uppipe, c. £50 Air filter, Snorkus delete Free as DIY, fuel pump c.£80 (Easy DIY job) Mapping c. £500-£600. If you buy all the bits from a performance specialist that does fitting get them to do a deal for fitting everything as well as doing the mapping. You might be surprised at how much money you'll save over PPP. Example...give Zen Performance in Wellingborough a call and see what they quote you for the above bits and fitting.
2. Insurance won't charge much more for upgrade so long as you go to the right insurance company. Call Gary Moulson at Keith Michaels Car Insurance (Gary knows Scoobies and they give excellent quotes for modded japs!!), they gave a great quote for myself and the missus, + extensive mods to my 2.0L WRX 215bhp (now with STi8 engine, modifications and mapping c.350 bhp).
Job done!!
P.S. I forgot to add.....your STi8 engine in std form will take up to 500bhp, and should easily run
c.400bhp or so all day long no probs, so don't worry too much about wear and tear because your std VF35 Turbo won't put out any more than 350-360bhp anyway, and so as long as the tune has been done properly by someone that knows exactly what they are doing you'll be 'sound as a pound'!!
Costings: c.£500 for exhaust and uppipe, c. £50 Air filter, Snorkus delete Free as DIY, fuel pump c.£80 (Easy DIY job) Mapping c. £500-£600. If you buy all the bits from a performance specialist that does fitting get them to do a deal for fitting everything as well as doing the mapping. You might be surprised at how much money you'll save over PPP. Example...give Zen Performance in Wellingborough a call and see what they quote you for the above bits and fitting.
2. Insurance won't charge much more for upgrade so long as you go to the right insurance company. Call Gary Moulson at Keith Michaels Car Insurance (Gary knows Scoobies and they give excellent quotes for modded japs!!), they gave a great quote for myself and the missus, + extensive mods to my 2.0L WRX 215bhp (now with STi8 engine, modifications and mapping c.350 bhp).
Job done!!
P.S. I forgot to add.....your STi8 engine in std form will take up to 500bhp, and should easily run
c.400bhp or so all day long no probs, so don't worry too much about wear and tear because your std VF35 Turbo won't put out any more than 350-360bhp anyway, and so as long as the tune has been done properly by someone that knows exactly what they are doing you'll be 'sound as a pound'!!
Edited by ScoobieWRX on Wednesday 12th November 03:06
Is there a significant price difference when buying one between PPP or not?
The points above apply to cost of adding the modifications to an existing car but if it isn't much more to buy one that already has the PPP then it would make sense to go that way, you can always upgrade it further from there if you get the 'more power' bug.
The points above apply to cost of adding the modifications to an existing car but if it isn't much more to buy one that already has the PPP then it would make sense to go that way, you can always upgrade it further from there if you get the 'more power' bug.
Unfortunately people with PPP on their scoobs when selling their car, because they paid so much for the PPP in the first place, or because they think PPP is really wonderful 
price their cars accordingly to get their money back or make a few bob.
On average you'll find cars with PPP to be about £1000-£1500 more expensive than bog standard cars, totally unreasonable. You seldom get your money back on mods you've spent money on anyway and most of us accept that. Unfortunately some people don't seem to realise that and ask very top dollar for their PPP P&J, and later on wonder why it isn't selling. When a scoob has been on the market for a while and hasn't sold people wonder if there is something wrong with it, then lose interest and quickly move on to the next one. Sale Lost!!
IMHO you do the mods for your own pleasure/purpose, but not to make money from when/if you sell your car. If you do the mods under the impression that you won't get back what you've spent and price your car reasonably at sale time to reflect it's age, condition, mileage etc... then sensible mods are a good way to make your car a more attractive to potential buyers than standard cars, and more or less guarantees a swift sale at very near or right on your original and reasonable asking price.
Even if i spent £1600 with Zen, TSL, GRD or one of many other reputable tuners at least you know they have done a proper job, you got a damn site more for your money than PPP provides, and come sale time when you state all mods done by A,B,C or D specialist reputable tuner people know your mods have been done properly and will want to buy your car. With PPP you're paying for the a big commercial name, it's nothing special, and they don't even do a bespoke tune on your specific car. With PPP one size fits all!!
IMHO get a standard car and pay to have mods done by a really good tuner. It will give you so much pleasure and satisfaction to know your car has been specifically individually and specially tuned for you, and you will enjoy your car far more that way. It's a bit like having a suit made for you by a Saville Row tailor or popping down to Marks and Sparks and picking up a suit off the peg that has huge tolerences because it was made to fit 30% of the population, and in all honesty looks rubbish and doesn't fit well or make you look good.
I prefer the suit made for me by a Saville Row specialist....only because it was made properly, looks awesome, fits perfectly and makes me feel really special......and also i'm a fat b
d so Marks & Sparks suits don't fit me anyway 
It's a no brainer!!
price their cars accordingly to get their money back or make a few bob.On average you'll find cars with PPP to be about £1000-£1500 more expensive than bog standard cars, totally unreasonable. You seldom get your money back on mods you've spent money on anyway and most of us accept that. Unfortunately some people don't seem to realise that and ask very top dollar for their PPP P&J, and later on wonder why it isn't selling. When a scoob has been on the market for a while and hasn't sold people wonder if there is something wrong with it, then lose interest and quickly move on to the next one. Sale Lost!!
IMHO you do the mods for your own pleasure/purpose, but not to make money from when/if you sell your car. If you do the mods under the impression that you won't get back what you've spent and price your car reasonably at sale time to reflect it's age, condition, mileage etc... then sensible mods are a good way to make your car a more attractive to potential buyers than standard cars, and more or less guarantees a swift sale at very near or right on your original and reasonable asking price.
Even if i spent £1600 with Zen, TSL, GRD or one of many other reputable tuners at least you know they have done a proper job, you got a damn site more for your money than PPP provides, and come sale time when you state all mods done by A,B,C or D specialist reputable tuner people know your mods have been done properly and will want to buy your car. With PPP you're paying for the a big commercial name, it's nothing special, and they don't even do a bespoke tune on your specific car. With PPP one size fits all!!
IMHO get a standard car and pay to have mods done by a really good tuner. It will give you so much pleasure and satisfaction to know your car has been specifically individually and specially tuned for you, and you will enjoy your car far more that way. It's a bit like having a suit made for you by a Saville Row tailor or popping down to Marks and Sparks and picking up a suit off the peg that has huge tolerences because it was made to fit 30% of the population, and in all honesty looks rubbish and doesn't fit well or make you look good.
I prefer the suit made for me by a Saville Row specialist....only because it was made properly, looks awesome, fits perfectly and makes me feel really special......and also i'm a fat b
d so Marks & Sparks suits don't fit me anyway It's a no brainer!!
Edited by ScoobieWRX on Wednesday 12th November 03:13
MB 1 said:
I would definately expect that from a JDM twin scroll unit, but maybe not quite that high on a UK spec car. It will be better than the PPP though, and more torques!
I make c.340-360bhp at the fly, that's about the limit of the VF35 and std injectors. I have supporting mods though that in the main include a full 3" high flow downpipe catted system, GT Spec GenII headers, decat 3-bolt uppipe, sytek fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator running 3.5bar and flat panel air filter + Snorkus mod. That's all done still using the std STi TMIC, and i do all my own mapping. Edited by MB 1 on Wednesday 12th November 13:58
Next stage is bigger turbo, modified injectors and maybe cold air intake for c.400bhp-420bhp, and thereafter 450bhp-500bhp with a decent FMIC.
Just what i have done is much better than PPP by a long way. If i had the VF36 twin scroll turbo i would expect a bit more than that again (c.370bhp) and quicker lower down spool-up still using the std TMIC.
Many mainstream insurance companies don't charge extra for a factory PPP and I can't see a PPP car being much dearer in the present climate then a non-PPP and it's well worth having. Unless you are into modding, that's the way I'd go. If you do want to mod, then do it yourself (or pay to have it done by those who know) rather than buy one already done, unless you are confident it's been done well. Any money you spend will add zilch to the value and may even make it more difficult to sell later although that's not the point of it. You can easily get more power than the PPP for less money. It just depends how keen you are on fiddling. Good luck whatever, you'll enjoy it.
Edited by rovermorris999 on Wednesday 12th November 20:03
rovermorris999 said:
Many mainstream insurance companies don't charge extra for a factory PPP and I can't see a PPP car being much dearer in the present climate then a non-PPP and it's well worth having. Unless you are into modding, that's the way I'd go. If you do want to mod, then do it yourself (or pay to have it done by those who know) rather than buy one already done, unless you are confident it's been done well. Any money you spend will add zilch to the value and may even make it more difficult to sell later although that's not the point of it. You can easily get more power than the PPP for less money. It just depends how keen you are on fiddling. Good luck whatever, you'll enjoy it.
As above PPP is safe way to go etc but to add my tuppence worth, I would head for Tracktive Solutions:Edited by rovermorris999 on Wednesday 12th November 20:03
'EX-WRC stalwart and renowned ECU mapper Richard Bulmer has launched a new company, Tracktive Solutions, and revealed plans for a research, development and retail facility in the East Midlands.
Bulmer earned his stripes as Didier Auriol's WRC technician, as well as running Alister McRae. He hopes to draw on his wealth of experience from management at Oselli and MoTeC and time in Formula One to provide a unique service for professional teams, manufacturers and road car customers.'
A friend just let him lose on his '05 STi with fantastic results, approx 320bhp much more low down torque and flexibility and better consumption etc
I'm very lucky to live where i live. If you're in my neck of the woods, Northants, you now have a choice of 4 subaru performance spcialists within an hours drive......Zen Performance (Wellingborough), TSL Motorsport (Nottingham), Roger Clarke Motorsport (Desborough) and now Tractive Solutions (Melton Mowbry).
Spoilt for choice really!!
For mapping and mechanical work, if i didn't do my own, i would go to Zen as their labour and parts costs are very reasonable and their mapping expertise is second to none, plus they now have a Dastek Rolling Road. Paul Blamire is a really nice chap and very helpful!! Time Attack Winners!!
For parts with very reasonable prices i would go to Roger Clarke as well, they give good technical advice and Olly Clark is a really nice chap to talk to although i think their labour costs are pricey. Time Attack Winners!!
I wouldn't go back to TSL as i find them expensive on parts and labour although i have to say they are a very decent bunch of blokes and i got on great with them. They certainly know how to rally prep Impreza's so there's no doubting their expertise but interestingly enough they use Zen to do their mapping.
I've yet to try tracktive solutions however looking at their website they fiddle with lots of other makes of cars including diesels so in my book that makes them a bit of an all rounder and my preference is to go for more focused Impreza specialists and that's exactly what Zen and Roger Clark are, so doubtful i will use ever sue Tracktive unless their parts prices are also very reasonable. However, looking at what they do and prices for some of their performance packages i really can't imagine they'll be anywhere near as cost effective as Zen or Roger Clark, and are more than likely even more pricey than TSL.
Spoilt for choice really!!
For mapping and mechanical work, if i didn't do my own, i would go to Zen as their labour and parts costs are very reasonable and their mapping expertise is second to none, plus they now have a Dastek Rolling Road. Paul Blamire is a really nice chap and very helpful!! Time Attack Winners!!
For parts with very reasonable prices i would go to Roger Clarke as well, they give good technical advice and Olly Clark is a really nice chap to talk to although i think their labour costs are pricey. Time Attack Winners!!
I wouldn't go back to TSL as i find them expensive on parts and labour although i have to say they are a very decent bunch of blokes and i got on great with them. They certainly know how to rally prep Impreza's so there's no doubting their expertise but interestingly enough they use Zen to do their mapping.
I've yet to try tracktive solutions however looking at their website they fiddle with lots of other makes of cars including diesels so in my book that makes them a bit of an all rounder and my preference is to go for more focused Impreza specialists and that's exactly what Zen and Roger Clark are, so doubtful i will use ever sue Tracktive unless their parts prices are also very reasonable. However, looking at what they do and prices for some of their performance packages i really can't imagine they'll be anywhere near as cost effective as Zen or Roger Clark, and are more than likely even more pricey than TSL.
ScoobieWRX said:
I'm very lucky to live where i live. If you're in my neck of the woods, Northants, you now have a choice of 4 subaru performance spcialists within an hours drive......Zen Performance (Wellingborough), TSL Motorsport (Nottingham), Roger Clarke Motorsport (Desborough) and now Tractive Solutions (Melton Mowbry).
Spoilt for choice really!!
For mapping and mechanical work, if i didn't do my own, i would go to Zen as their labour and parts costs are very reasonable and their mapping expertise is second to none, plus they now have a Dastek Rolling Road. Paul Blamire is a really nice chap and very helpful!! Time Attack Winners!!
For parts with very reasonable prices i would go to Roger Clarke as well, they give good technical advice and Olly Clark is a really nice chap to talk to although i think their labour costs are pricey. Time Attack Winners!!
I wouldn't go back to TSL as i find them expensive on parts and labour although i have to say they are a very decent bunch of blokes and i got on great with them. They certainly know how to rally prep Impreza's so there's no doubting their expertise but interestingly enough they use Zen to do their mapping.
I've yet to try tracktive solutions however looking at their website they fiddle with lots of other makes of cars including diesels so in my book that makes them a bit of an all rounder and my preference is to go for more focused Impreza specialists and that's exactly what Zen and Roger Clark are, so doubtful i will use ever sue Tracktive unless their parts prices are also very reasonable. However, looking at what they do and prices for some of their performance packages i really can't imagine they'll be anywhere near as cost effective as Zen or Roger Clark, and are more than likely even more pricey than TSL.
iirc Tracktive was cheaper then some and the same as others...I wouldn't dismiss him if I were youSpoilt for choice really!!
For mapping and mechanical work, if i didn't do my own, i would go to Zen as their labour and parts costs are very reasonable and their mapping expertise is second to none, plus they now have a Dastek Rolling Road. Paul Blamire is a really nice chap and very helpful!! Time Attack Winners!!
For parts with very reasonable prices i would go to Roger Clarke as well, they give good technical advice and Olly Clark is a really nice chap to talk to although i think their labour costs are pricey. Time Attack Winners!!
I wouldn't go back to TSL as i find them expensive on parts and labour although i have to say they are a very decent bunch of blokes and i got on great with them. They certainly know how to rally prep Impreza's so there's no doubting their expertise but interestingly enough they use Zen to do their mapping.
I've yet to try tracktive solutions however looking at their website they fiddle with lots of other makes of cars including diesels so in my book that makes them a bit of an all rounder and my preference is to go for more focused Impreza specialists and that's exactly what Zen and Roger Clark are, so doubtful i will use ever sue Tracktive unless their parts prices are also very reasonable. However, looking at what they do and prices for some of their performance packages i really can't imagine they'll be anywhere near as cost effective as Zen or Roger Clark, and are more than likely even more pricey than TSL.
I take it back....on closer inspection they seem to be on par with TSL and i have to say they do lots and lots of very nice bits and pieces that some others don't do,i.e. Perrin kit and front facing inlet manifold especially....but they still look to be a lot more expensive than either Zen or Roger Clark.
For now i'll stick to what i know and who i know although that's not to say the next time i'm up that neck of the woods i won't pop in and take a look.
However........If only i had bottomless pockets!!
For now i'll stick to what i know and who i know although that's not to say the next time i'm up that neck of the woods i won't pop in and take a look.
However........If only i had bottomless pockets!!
DocJock said:
Agreed Bob Rawle is great, he mapped mine, but dismissing the guys ScoobieWRX mentioned is just daft. In particular, Zen have a very, very good reputation and their own car is an absolute monster.
I didn't dismiss them or tell anyone else to, i just said i'll stick to what and who i know, and if i'm passing that way i may pop in to have a look. That doesn't sound like dismissing them to me, i've kept an open mind on this one!! And no it isn't daft....just my personal preference and some customer loyalty to tuning companies that have never seen me wrong and always produce the goods!! Nothing wrong with that is there??
OK...i take your point and having re-read that another way it makes sense based on what you've just said but it didn't sound right initially, the way you wrote it came across wrongly to me which is why i replied with what i did, but i did think you were addressing me in your reply.
Not to worry
Anyway......yes i can read.
Not to worry
Anyway......yes i can read.
What you need to remember is the resale factor. To the uneducated, a Prodrive Performance Pack that is approved by Subaru will make a purchase more atractive than an upgrade from a company that they might not have heard of.
I would expect the PPP model to be no more than £500 more (if any!) than a non PPP STI. Remember there are LOTS of these cars not selling at the moment.
Look around and try before you buy. Enjoy it too If I were buying again though i'd look at a Spec C rather than a UK STI.
I would expect the PPP model to be no more than £500 more (if any!) than a non PPP STI. Remember there are LOTS of these cars not selling at the moment.
Look around and try before you buy. Enjoy it too
If I were buying again though i'd look at a Spec C rather than a UK STI.Gassing Station | Japanese Chat | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff