Politics - who's actively involved?

[BruceV8]

Having been a PHer for about 5 years - and a human for about 38 - it seems that there is a general* concensus that things are not as they should be in our society. I don't mean the detail of the government's individual policies (although thats woeful enough, there are enough threads on the individual issues elsewhere).

I mean the general malaise that can be evidenced by an apparently growing and more violent and grasping underclass; A vicious and powerful, yet irresponsible press; A vapid culture of pointless celebrity; A self serving yet pious political class and a large media apparently in thrall, if not in bed, with it; A public sector that serves itself and not us; The loss of sovereignty to the EU; The growth of state interference in our lives..... I coud go on but I'm sure you get the picture. Most PHers will be familiar with the themes, even if they don't agree with my take on them.

Many of us like a rant about the issues but how many of us have tried to do anything about it? This isn't the usual rhetorical question. I specifically mean are there PHers who have become involved in politics or single issue campaigns? If so, what have their experiences been? Have they been able to change anything? Do they think we can ever change anything? Does their personal experience of politicians, local or national, and their advisors accord with our general view of them? And for those who haven't become involved in politics, who actually would if their cirumstances permitted it?

• Yes I know that there are those who don't agree with my take on this, which is why I said general.

[Racingdude009]

I am pretty involved Locally and nationally really winds me up those who moan but can not be asked to do anything about it.

[dilbert]

OP;
Don't be an apologist, it's only one step removed from not being actively involved.

You have to accept that people might hate you.
Perhaps it's cowardly to hang out where their is support for your view (as I do), but another way is to identify and join the pockets of people you share your ideals with.

If you're not hated for your views sometimes, you're never going to find out.

Edited by dilbert on Saturday 15th November 17:19

[BruceV8]

dilbert said:

OP;
Don't be an apologist, it's only one step removed from not being actively involved.

You have to accept that people might hate you.
Perhaps it's cowardly to hang out where their is support for your view (as I do), but another way is to identify and join the pockets of people you share your ideals with.

If you're not hated for your views sometimes, you're never going to find out.

Edited by dilbert on Saturday 15th November 17:19

I am in the employ of Her Majesty, which means I can't get involved.

[dilbert]

BruceV8 said:

dilbert said:

OP;
Don't be an apologist, it's only one step removed from not being actively involved.

You have to accept that people might hate you.
Perhaps it's cowardly to hang out where their is support for your view (as I do), but another way is to identify and join the pockets of people you share your ideals with.

If you're not hated for your views sometimes, you're never going to find out.

Edited by dilbert on Saturday 15th November 17:19

I am in the employ of Her Majesty, which means I can't get involved.

Maj won't but it doesn't stop you voting. Why would it stop you doing anything else?

Doing what you're told is one thing, sharing ideas is another. When it's working properly, which it isn't, the civil service is supposed to act in an advisory capacity to the elected government.

So for example when the intelligence services actually say saddam isn't a threat, and the government say that the intelligence services said he is a threat, it's time for better "sharing of ideas".

When the government tells the forces to go to war, they do go even though they don't think saddam is actually a threat to us.

So the sharing of ideas is actually quite important, even if some blinding tirade of crap can say, for example, that we mustn't talk about a run on the pound, because it'll make it worse.

Edited by dilbert on Saturday 15th November 17:34

[BruceV8]

dilbert said:

BruceV8 said:

dilbert said:

OP;
Don't be an apologist, it's only one step removed from not being actively involved.

You have to accept that people might hate you.
Perhaps it's cowardly to hang out where their is support for your view (as I do), but another way is to identify and join the pockets of people you share your ideals with.

If you're not hated for your views sometimes, you're never going to find out.

Edited by dilbert on Saturday 15th November 17:19

I am in the employ of Her Majesty, which means I can't get involved.

Madj won't but it doesn't stop you voting. Why would it stop you doing anything else?

Of course I vote. But Queen's Regulations for the Army 1975 prohibits soldiers from becoming involved in any political activity. And rightly so, IMO. Its bad enough having a politicised civil service and police. Politicised armed forces don't bear thinking about.

[dilbert]

BruceV8 said:

dilbert said:

BruceV8 said:

dilbert said:

OP;
Don't be an apologist, it's only one step removed from not being actively involved.

You have to accept that people might hate you.
Perhaps it's cowardly to hang out where their is support for your view (as I do), but another way is to identify and join the pockets of people you share your ideals with.

If you're not hated for your views sometimes, you're never going to find out.

Edited by dilbert on Saturday 15th November 17:19

I am in the employ of Her Majesty, which means I can't get involved.

Madj won't but it doesn't stop you voting. Why would it stop you doing anything else?

Of course I vote. But Queen's Regulations for the Army 1975 prohibits soldiers from becoming involved in any political activity. And rightly so, IMO. Its bad enough having a politicised civil service and police. Politicised armed forces don't bear thinking about.

Would you be politicised if Maj told you to stand in Horseguards and point your fieldguns at number ten?

Edited by dilbert on Saturday 15th November 17:51

[BruceV8]

dilbert said:

BruceV8 said:

dilbert said:

BruceV8 said:

dilbert said:

OP;
Don't be an apologist, it's only one step removed from not being actively involved.

You have to accept that people might hate you.
Perhaps it's cowardly to hang out where their is support for your view (as I do), but another way is to identify and join the pockets of people you share your ideals with.

If you're not hated for your views sometimes, you're never going to find out.

Edited by dilbert on Saturday 15th November 17:19

I am in the employ of Her Majesty, which means I can't get involved.

Madj won't but it doesn't stop you voting. Why would it stop you doing anything else?

Of course I vote. But Queen's Regulations for the Army 1975 prohibits soldiers from becoming involved in any political activity. And rightly so, IMO. Its bad enough having a politicised civil service and police. Politicised armed forces don't bear thinking about.

Would you be politicised if Maj told you to stand in Horseguards and point your fieldguns at number ten?

Thats quite a jump from what I was talking about. But in answer, I suppose I would - my oath of allegience is to the crown, not No 10, so if it came to that I would probably find myself as a cavalier, if you see what I mean.

What circumstances in the foreseeable future could you envisage that happening? The only one I can think of is a government that lost or rigged an election and then refused to stand down.

Not that I'd put that past this shower of mendicants

[172ff]

I would have thought there are quite a few BNP activists on here judging by some of the threads and comments.

Not forgetting the Tory boys. Some days I have to log off due to the we love Maggie posts. Like a week in Harrogate at the party conference.

Myself, I used to be very involved but have lost interest since Blair went.

One of my good friends is quite involved in the Lib Dems. He spouts off how I should join them etc. Usually in the pub and it usually ruins a good pint. Ill join if they bring back the ginger alcoholic!

[dilbert]

BruceV8 said:

dilbert said:

BruceV8 said:

dilbert said:

BruceV8 said:

dilbert said:

OP;
Don't be an apologist, it's only one step removed from not being actively involved.

You have to accept that people might hate you.
Perhaps it's cowardly to hang out where their is support for your view (as I do), but another way is to identify and join the pockets of people you share your ideals with.

If you're not hated for your views sometimes, you're never going to find out.

Edited by dilbert on Saturday 15th November 17:19

I am in the employ of Her Majesty, which means I can't get involved.

Madj won't but it doesn't stop you voting. Why would it stop you doing anything else?

Of course I vote. But Queen's Regulations for the Army 1975 prohibits soldiers from becoming involved in any political activity. And rightly so, IMO. Its bad enough having a politicised civil service and police. Politicised armed forces don't bear thinking about.

Would you be politicised if Maj told you to stand in Horseguards and point your fieldguns at number ten?

Thats quite a jump from what I was talking about. But in answer, I suppose I would - my oath of allegience is to the crown, not No 10, so if it came to that I would probably find myself as a cavalier, if you see what I mean.

What circumstances in the foreseeable future could you envisage that happening? The only one I can think of is a government that lost or rigged an election and then refused to stand down.

Not that I'd put that past this shower of mendicants

I added this to my previous post because I didn't think you would reply;

myownedit said:

I think you should be prepared to press me harder. Expressly not for the political aims that you may or may not have. Should you not, you risk becoming politicised, by default. If you are as you say you are, I'm probably on your side.

My aim was not to change the subject, merely to get a point of reference.

Can you change things? - Of course you can.
Can you act individually or in a small group to achive an end which will co-ordinate with a wider plan? - Probably not.
Is this a get em to stand up so we can shoot em down thread? Who knows.

You gotta believe in it to fight for it with a passion. For someone who works for Maj, that's going to be easy. Were it for a political god, much harder, that's one of the reasons you're better than the rest of the world.

I stand by what I say though. The ideas come first, and people should press others much harder than they do, whoever they are. When life's easy politics are poor.

[BruceV8]

172ff said:

I would have thought there are quite a few BNP activists on here judging by some of the threads and comments.

Not forgetting the Tory boys. Some days I have to log off due to the we love Maggie posts. Like a week in Harrogate at the party conference.

Myself, I used to be very involved but have lost interest since Blair went.

One of my good friends is quite involved in the Lib Dems. He spouts off how I should join them etc. Usually in the pub and it usually ruins a good pint. Ill join if they bring back the ginger alcoholic!

I take it you were a Labour man then? In what way were you active?

[69 coupe]

Yes BruiceV8, you can definitely make a difference!

I notice you're a nonblowerupa deviceman
Put your skills into direct action, reverse the 'non' bit, dig a tunnel under Parliament, well you know the rest.

When you swing for treason, we'll have a great big bonfire
Remember Remember the 15th of November, BruiceGuyfks up the houses of Parliament



You know it makes no sense, Oh and get yourself a jaunty hat

[dilbert]

I don't know if people think I'm an ultra right nutter. I certainly suspect that many do. Those who are ultra right know I'm not.

I just thank the gods that we're going to get a change of government. I almost don't care what it is. It does scare me that it's going to be some extremist nightmare under the guise of respectable normality.

It's never going to stop me thinking what I think. It's frightening that things could become that way by the time I'm too old to be able to change it.

I can only console myself that if I did something extreme and senseless in an attempt to achieve moderation and sense, I'd probably not get what I want.

Edited by dilbert on Saturday 15th November 18:40

[Racingdude009]

So who is a serving Councillor then ?

[Racingdude009]

Only me then ?

[BruceV8]

Racingdude009 said:

Only me then ?

Looks like it at the moment. Whats your story then?