2009 Britcar dates
Discussion
Found them!! FYI
Britcar GTs Championship
28th March ** Silverstone (Inter) 120 Minutes
2nd – 4th May ** Donington (GP) 2 x 90 Minutes
27th June ** Spa Francorchamps 180 Minutes (Night) (JOINT)
18th – 19th July ** Brands Hatch Grand Prix 90 Minutes (JOINT)
8th – 9th August Castle Combe 90 Minutes
29th – 30th August ** Snetterton 240 Minutes
2nd – 4th October ** Silverstone GP 360 Minutes (JOINT)
7th November ** Brands Hatch Indy 90 Minutes (JOINT)
** - TEST DAY
Britcar GTs Championship
28th March ** Silverstone (Inter) 120 Minutes
2nd – 4th May ** Donington (GP) 2 x 90 Minutes
27th June ** Spa Francorchamps 180 Minutes (Night) (JOINT)
18th – 19th July ** Brands Hatch Grand Prix 90 Minutes (JOINT)
8th – 9th August Castle Combe 90 Minutes
29th – 30th August ** Snetterton 240 Minutes
2nd – 4th October ** Silverstone GP 360 Minutes (JOINT)
7th November ** Brands Hatch Indy 90 Minutes (JOINT)
** - TEST DAY
obes said:
O, JT said over the PA on Saturday that the 24 Hours wasn't happening in '09 and it would, as ngr said, be a 6 Hour race instead. Should still be a good race, I reckon, just a shame the 24 is gone. Hopefully it'll return sooner rather than later.Hi Everyone..
The 24hr weekend will be better than this year with the race starting at 4.30 as normal, with more racing the following day.
Fairs, bars ,camping, parades, air show etc
The reason for a 6hr race is cost for the teams...
24hr...60k for a Porsche and 20k for a 6hr....
.......we have to be frugle......
The 24hr race will be back,
sportingly
jt
The 24hr weekend will be better than this year with the race starting at 4.30 as normal, with more racing the following day.
Fairs, bars ,camping, parades, air show etc
The reason for a 6hr race is cost for the teams...
24hr...60k for a Porsche and 20k for a 6hr....
.......we have to be frugle......
The 24hr race will be back,
sportingly
jt
Edited by james tucker on Tuesday 18th November 22:11
If its got to be 6 hours can I suggest for commercial reasons you impose some sort of maximum stint length.
The problem that stands out with a 6 hour race is cars like our Honda would only need to stop once, a Porsche twice and so on. The problem then is the number of drivers required and therefore the cost is worse than a 24hr for car owners. Yes they gain in reduced component life across the season but thats all they still have to pay for tyres, fuel, big entry fee, brakes etc etc.
Theres no point dwelling on the other issues. You pays your money and you takes your chances as they say
The problem that stands out with a 6 hour race is cars like our Honda would only need to stop once, a Porsche twice and so on. The problem then is the number of drivers required and therefore the cost is worse than a 24hr for car owners. Yes they gain in reduced component life across the season but thats all they still have to pay for tyres, fuel, big entry fee, brakes etc etc.
Theres no point dwelling on the other issues. You pays your money and you takes your chances as they say
Simon Mason said:
If its got to be 6 hours can I suggest for commercial reasons you impose some sort of maximum stint length.
The problem that stands out with a 6 hour race is cars like our Honda would only need to stop once, a Porsche twice and so on. The problem then is the number of drivers required and therefore the cost is worse than a 24hr for car owners. Yes they gain in reduced component life across the season but thats all they still have to pay for tyres, fuel, big entry fee, brakes etc etc.
Theres no point dwelling on the other issues. You pays your money and you takes your chances as they say
Not it the refuelling is only 50ltrs at a time Simon!?! as per the regs. The problem that stands out with a 6 hour race is cars like our Honda would only need to stop once, a Porsche twice and so on. The problem then is the number of drivers required and therefore the cost is worse than a 24hr for car owners. Yes they gain in reduced component life across the season but thats all they still have to pay for tyres, fuel, big entry fee, brakes etc etc.
Theres no point dwelling on the other issues. You pays your money and you takes your chances as they say
Edited by ngr on Wednesday 19th November 09:08
so the '24hr weekend' will only have a 6hr race --- uuummm pity the marketing person who has to communicate that one to the press.
well no 24hr race is a really big disappointment - is it another thing we are putting down to confidence in the current financial climate?
jt - if the decision has been made pls get the website on message
well no 24hr race is a really big disappointment - is it another thing we are putting down to confidence in the current financial climate?
jt - if the decision has been made pls get the website on message
legaleagleboy said:
so the '24hr weekend' will only have a 6hr race --- uuummm pity the marketing person who has to communicate that one to the press.
well no 24hr race is a really big disappointment - is it another thing we are putting down to confidence in the current financial climate?
jt - if the decision has been made pls get the website on message
The expected market conditions by the race date have had a very definite influence on all concerned, the race organisers, the circuits, the drivers and teams, etc etc. With a 6 hour race there is a very good chance that it will be affordable in terms of race budgets and organisational risk, half a loaf, or in this case one quarter, may well be better then none well no 24hr race is a really big disappointment - is it another thing we are putting down to confidence in the current financial climate?
jt - if the decision has been made pls get the website on message
Rod, I think it folly to just think & talk about downturns in economic conditions / finances etc and try and make the race calendar fit that "issue". I suspect from the activity that we have seen on the insurance side, that at Britcar level (and above) across Europe there will be exactly the same number of teams / drivers, if not more. It's the 'grassroots' where the effect may come into play.
I agree entirely with Henry's point that people may look to spend their money more wisely (but not with his point that GT Cup is the place to spend it!), but using the belief we have in say our own business, the best will survive & indeed grow in strenght. I'm confident that GT numbers across UK & Europe will not be affected, Britcar needs to make sure it's attractive to those who want to go racing.
There are enough teams around (in the UK & Europe) who would fund an entry to a 24 Hour race - and make it a special event in their racing calendar - a 6 hour race doesn't have that same feel / experience. It would be a shame to let JT's fantastic work go to waste; talk to FIA GT3 competitors & the Spa 24 is a crucial part of the championship - same as the Zolder 24 & Belcar.
We must do anything we can to ensure that Britcar has a 24 Hour race this year - trying to get it back in the future may prove a challenge too far.
I agree entirely with Henry's point that people may look to spend their money more wisely (but not with his point that GT Cup is the place to spend it!), but using the belief we have in say our own business, the best will survive & indeed grow in strenght. I'm confident that GT numbers across UK & Europe will not be affected, Britcar needs to make sure it's attractive to those who want to go racing.
There are enough teams around (in the UK & Europe) who would fund an entry to a 24 Hour race - and make it a special event in their racing calendar - a 6 hour race doesn't have that same feel / experience. It would be a shame to let JT's fantastic work go to waste; talk to FIA GT3 competitors & the Spa 24 is a crucial part of the championship - same as the Zolder 24 & Belcar.
We must do anything we can to ensure that Britcar has a 24 Hour race this year - trying to get it back in the future may prove a challenge too far.
How attractive the entry fee is, will certianly have an influence on the take up for the 6 hour race. JT has spoken about entry fees being approximately £495 per hour, which would make the six hour race around £3000.
The argument that a race 1/4 quarter of the distance will offer significant cost savings to teams and drivers does not add up for many cars. Should the entry be around £3K this significant cost item is virtually the same as this years 24 Hour race. Moreover other core costs such as insurance do not follow a linear relationship with race length.
As others have mentioned in today's Autosport the cost of preparing the car will be much the same, the time spent at the track will be the same. It is only really fuel and tyres where the cost saving is in direct proportion to the race length. Many current cars, be it a Clio Cup car or an Aston Martin N24 have engine rebuild intervals in excess of 10,000km's so doing a 24 hour race does not necessarily mean a new engine before and after.
My fear is that teams will struggle to attract the pay driver who might choose to race only a few times a year as the concept of an evening 6 hour race, at Silverstone in October will have little appeal both in terms of the event and value for money.
The argument that a race 1/4 quarter of the distance will offer significant cost savings to teams and drivers does not add up for many cars. Should the entry be around £3K this significant cost item is virtually the same as this years 24 Hour race. Moreover other core costs such as insurance do not follow a linear relationship with race length.
As others have mentioned in today's Autosport the cost of preparing the car will be much the same, the time spent at the track will be the same. It is only really fuel and tyres where the cost saving is in direct proportion to the race length. Many current cars, be it a Clio Cup car or an Aston Martin N24 have engine rebuild intervals in excess of 10,000km's so doing a 24 hour race does not necessarily mean a new engine before and after.
My fear is that teams will struggle to attract the pay driver who might choose to race only a few times a year as the concept of an evening 6 hour race, at Silverstone in October will have little appeal both in terms of the event and value for money.
Edited by Brunswick on Thursday 20th November 13:36
Edited by Brunswick on Thursday 20th November 13:39
The latter arguments for keeping the 24hr race are compelling but no one has yet mentioned the risk involved in setting up such an event, I'll pose a few questions about that further down in this post.
I don't have any information on the entry fees JT is considering for the 6 hr event, I totally agree however that if this goes ahead, the fees should be cut to the bone and if necessary, leave out the ancillary off track attractions. The 6 hr race substitution must make financial sense for as it's been said, the cost savings have got to be there to justify changing from a 24 hr race in the first place. The other valid point is that if it is not run then it may be difficult to re-establish it in 2010 or later.
This brings me back to the matter of organisational risk. I don't know how deep this recession is going to cut, nobody does, but I do believe that few of us will escape it's effects be it by a small degree or to a larger extent. JT would need to see a minimum of 50 odd cars on the grid to clear the costs and perhaps make the smallest of profits, this is just a guess on my part, but I think it is a reasonable estimation. The entire problem could be solved financially speaking if 50 teams and drivers who desperately wanted to race in the 24hr race stumped up full entry costs in advance, i.e Now, and on a non returnable, but transferable, (I've got a grid slot) basis. This wouldn't cover all the associated risks but it would make a major sting less painful, but how many of us would commit to such a proposal if the option were given today?
I don't know the answer, but I strongly suggest that it would be something of a mountain to climb. I don't know if the above will help in terms of justifying or otherwise a 24hr or a 6 hour race, for these are just a few thoughts I had when trying to look at the bigger picture.
I don't have any information on the entry fees JT is considering for the 6 hr event, I totally agree however that if this goes ahead, the fees should be cut to the bone and if necessary, leave out the ancillary off track attractions. The 6 hr race substitution must make financial sense for as it's been said, the cost savings have got to be there to justify changing from a 24 hr race in the first place. The other valid point is that if it is not run then it may be difficult to re-establish it in 2010 or later.
This brings me back to the matter of organisational risk. I don't know how deep this recession is going to cut, nobody does, but I do believe that few of us will escape it's effects be it by a small degree or to a larger extent. JT would need to see a minimum of 50 odd cars on the grid to clear the costs and perhaps make the smallest of profits, this is just a guess on my part, but I think it is a reasonable estimation. The entire problem could be solved financially speaking if 50 teams and drivers who desperately wanted to race in the 24hr race stumped up full entry costs in advance, i.e Now, and on a non returnable, but transferable, (I've got a grid slot) basis. This wouldn't cover all the associated risks but it would make a major sting less painful, but how many of us would commit to such a proposal if the option were given today?
I don't know the answer, but I strongly suggest that it would be something of a mountain to climb. I don't know if the above will help in terms of justifying or otherwise a 24hr or a 6 hour race, for these are just a few thoughts I had when trying to look at the bigger picture.
As a motorsport fan, I understand all the points on cost and problems with running a 24hour race and how much work would have to be done to make it work this year again. But it will be a shame to lose the event especially after 4years, and at the stage where it's finally bringing in larger crowds, as once it's lost it may be hard to get the attraction back to the event and all the race fans and teams again!
One of the largest costs to JT for the 24 hour race is the re-fuelling rig. Probably something around £20-30k for the weekend. A 6 hour race won`t require that as the teams will be using churns in the normal manner.
I agree the ancillary costs for air-shows etc could be the first for any cutbacks without detracting from the event. Hopefully the fairground come for free on the basis they can charge for rides.
I think of teams committed to the 24 hour race financially in advance the event could be saved and indeed a significant amount of publicity gained for the event, "Competitors rally round to keep the Britcar 24 hour event running". That may gain extra foot-fall through the gates and so the snowball grows.
I agree with the argument for additional drivers doing a 24 hour race, I think there is some extra degree of mechanical wear for a 24 hour race though as compared to a 6 hour event. We budget for a gearbox, chassis and engine rebuild for the event although in fairness try to time things so as to get a few extra races out of the engine. The chassis and gearbox are a must.
Henry
edited to add: A fuel national fuel supplier as title sponsor would be the answer to a good many prayers. I did suggest to JT that he approaches them along the lines of using the event as the basis for a TV commercial. There are a wide variety of recognisable vehicles out there, some stunning visual images and £100k or so would make it one of the cheapest "studio" costs for a TV commercial. Clearly they still have production costs but in terms of not having to pay cast, set construction costs, props, location, etc, etc it would be a bargain. It also sends a clear message across that their premium brand fuel does what it says on the tin ! I`m thinking BP Ultimate as the most likely candidate if they want to close the gap on Shell Ultimax or indeed Shell if they want to re-enforce their market lead.
Henry
I agree the ancillary costs for air-shows etc could be the first for any cutbacks without detracting from the event. Hopefully the fairground come for free on the basis they can charge for rides.
I think of teams committed to the 24 hour race financially in advance the event could be saved and indeed a significant amount of publicity gained for the event, "Competitors rally round to keep the Britcar 24 hour event running". That may gain extra foot-fall through the gates and so the snowball grows.
I agree with the argument for additional drivers doing a 24 hour race, I think there is some extra degree of mechanical wear for a 24 hour race though as compared to a 6 hour event. We budget for a gearbox, chassis and engine rebuild for the event although in fairness try to time things so as to get a few extra races out of the engine. The chassis and gearbox are a must.
Henry
edited to add: A fuel national fuel supplier as title sponsor would be the answer to a good many prayers. I did suggest to JT that he approaches them along the lines of using the event as the basis for a TV commercial. There are a wide variety of recognisable vehicles out there, some stunning visual images and £100k or so would make it one of the cheapest "studio" costs for a TV commercial. Clearly they still have production costs but in terms of not having to pay cast, set construction costs, props, location, etc, etc it would be a bargain. It also sends a clear message across that their premium brand fuel does what it says on the tin ! I`m thinking BP Ultimate as the most likely candidate if they want to close the gap on Shell Ultimax or indeed Shell if they want to re-enforce their market lead.
Henry
Edited by Henry-F on Thursday 20th November 17:38
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