Safe overtaking speed differential????
Discussion
What would people suggest is a safe speed differential on a dual carriageway or motorway when overtaking much slower traffic? For example you are on a private road, a lorry is travelling at 55 - 60 mph and you overtake at 90 - 95, bearing in mind there is no other traffic around would this seem reasonable. I have just finished reading Roadcraft and it repeatedly gives the same (good) advice, "whatever speed you are doing always leave enough space in front of you so that you can stop in that distance". How does Roadcraft apply when overtaking other traffic?
What do people think ( and do!)
Cheers.
Steve.
What do people think ( and do!)
Cheers.
Steve.
We've had this discussion before. I like to minimise the time I'm on the wrong side of the road, so any overtake in a NSL is usually in third at full throttle. If it's very slow, we might start in second.
This means I break the speed limit everytime I overtake someone.
Overtaking at 7mph more, staring at the speedo lest I exceed 60mph is evidentally safer...
This means I break the speed limit everytime I overtake someone.
Overtaking at 7mph more, staring at the speedo lest I exceed 60mph is evidentally safer...
On a multi-lane road, it depends on the traffic. Lorries tend to be more observant, and atleast indicate their intention (IMHO). Thus I can to some extents control their lane changing by either slowing and letting them out or by speeding up and passing quickly. For cars, I don't like to catch them too fast, especially if (on a private test track) they are doing 60-70 and I'm going a bit quicker. I'll tend to accelerate in the gaps between traffic bunches and ease off when passing. This is because for some reason my Jag doesn't seem to stand out (even with headlights on). I think it's the grey/blue colour which tends to disappear especially when raining. Funnily enough it also seems to affect people following me. They drive up behind me as if I'm not there. Strange really.
Depends entirely upon the situation. For example, how fast am i gaining on the vehicle? is it DEFINETELY clear to do it? is there a space to slot into? Is it going to be tight at all?
In my experience, each overtake has its own unique factors to consider before attempting to execute the manouvre.
If i have any doubts at all, then i dont do it.
In my experience, each overtake has its own unique factors to consider before attempting to execute the manouvre.
If i have any doubts at all, then i dont do it.
From experience I've found that on a single carriageway its best to have enough speed to complete the overtake as qhickly as possible & get back on my own side of the road. On a dual I make sure I'm not over taking so fast that I cant stop if the numpty I'm passing decides to pull in front of me at the last second, surprisingly common occurence unfortunately 
. All depends on the conditions & the road etc.
. All depends on the conditions & the road etc.Single Carriageway: Usually you've been behind them for a while so the speed differential is what is possible whilst undergoing maximum acceleration. Surprisingly little in fact!
Dual/Motorway: You never know what the nutter in front in the lane to your left might do. Pass at a speed where you can abandon the pass if necessary. I have complete goits attempt to pull out into me whilst alongside before now.
Luckily with a performance car you have both the option of braking or accelerating to get out of the way...
I suppose another important issue is that the person being overtaken has demonstrated in some way that they are aware of your presence. Unfortunately I have found that a flash of lights to ensure they know you are passing enrages them in some mystifying way and they depress the loud pedal all the way into the carpet as you attempt to pass. C***s.
And all of this is secondary to being able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear etc etc.
Dual/Motorway: You never know what the nutter in front in the lane to your left might do. Pass at a speed where you can abandon the pass if necessary. I have complete goits attempt to pull out into me whilst alongside before now.
Luckily with a performance car you have both the option of braking or accelerating to get out of the way... I suppose another important issue is that the person being overtaken has demonstrated in some way that they are aware of your presence. Unfortunately I have found that a flash of lights to ensure they know you are passing enrages them in some mystifying way and they depress the loud pedal all the way into the carpet as you attempt to pass. C***s.
And all of this is secondary to being able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear etc etc.
Just to make my question a little clearer, let me give you a hypothetical example.
First thing in the morning (6.30am) dual carriageway clear visability, light traffic consisting of mostly lorries spaced half a mile apart, and the odd slower moving car. Does overtaking them at 95 when they are going 65 sound reasonable or would you slow down to seventy for every obstacle encountered??
Personally I would use my skill and judgement to slide by with up to a 30mph speed differential if I can see that they are driving consistently in a staight line and there are no other hazards present...
First thing in the morning (6.30am) dual carriageway clear visability, light traffic consisting of mostly lorries spaced half a mile apart, and the odd slower moving car. Does overtaking them at 95 when they are going 65 sound reasonable or would you slow down to seventy for every obstacle encountered??
Personally I would use my skill and judgement to slide by with up to a 30mph speed differential if I can see that they are driving consistently in a staight line and there are no other hazards present...
Don said:
Single Carriageway: Usually you've been behind them for a while so the speed differential is what is possible whilst undergoing maximum acceleration. Surprisingly little in fact!
If you know the road and plan your manouevers properly, then you can get past most things very quickly, even in an underpowered car.
Is is Car that coined the phrase TOD? (Time Exposed to Danger). I agree, any time spent on the wrong side of the road is exposure, ergo the faster you get it over with the better.
Multi lane roads are a different kettle of fish of course, but I'd contend that again the quicker you get past the less chance there is of someone wandering into you. You do of course monitor the driver of the overtaken vehicle for head or arm movements which might signal a manoever - BMW tinted window drivers to the back of the class please. Personally I always cover the brake with the left foot, and the horn, when approaching an overtake, and I'm usually comfortable with a 20-30mph differential.
Put it another way, if cruising at m-way munching rate I will drop to 80 to overtake a line of 50-65mph cars in the middle lane. Stick in a van or other nasty (4x4, overloaded estates with no rear view, aforementioned BMW's etc) and my speed will drop a little more - as would the distance between me and the car in front if it obscured my vision of the car 50m ahead whose brake lights I was monitoring.
As far as I'm concerned the move to high boot lines and shallow rear windows in car styling can have done nothing to aid motorway safety because of the reduced through visibility. Having better rear impact protection is no substitute for not getting rear ended in the first place.
Multi lane roads are a different kettle of fish of course, but I'd contend that again the quicker you get past the less chance there is of someone wandering into you. You do of course monitor the driver of the overtaken vehicle for head or arm movements which might signal a manoever - BMW tinted window drivers to the back of the class please. Personally I always cover the brake with the left foot, and the horn, when approaching an overtake, and I'm usually comfortable with a 20-30mph differential.
Put it another way, if cruising at m-way munching rate I will drop to 80 to overtake a line of 50-65mph cars in the middle lane. Stick in a van or other nasty (4x4, overloaded estates with no rear view, aforementioned BMW's etc) and my speed will drop a little more - as would the distance between me and the car in front if it obscured my vision of the car 50m ahead whose brake lights I was monitoring.
As far as I'm concerned the move to high boot lines and shallow rear windows in car styling can have done nothing to aid motorway safety because of the reduced through visibility. Having better rear impact protection is no substitute for not getting rear ended in the first place.
Mr2Mike said:
Single Carriageway: Usually you've been behind them for a while so the speed differential is what is possible whilst undergoing maximum acceleration. Surprisingly little in fact!
If you know the road and plan your manouevers properly, then you can get past most things very quickly, even in an underpowered car.
This is quite true ..... also, Don drives a Boxter! Do I need to add any more?
Catch me if you can Don
Paul
ultimapaul said:
This is quite true ..... also, Don drives a Boxter! Do I need to add any more?
Catch me if you can Don
Paul
Well I won't be catching your mighty chariot that's for sure...there again I wouldn't need to overtake you now would I? Seriously - I've never found my car underpowered for a swift overtake in third, say.
Although I had the wonderful delight of overtaking a numpty in a Saab cabrio at the weekend. Doing 35mph in an NSL - but he was obviously terrified by the twisties. So I had the Chimaera in the following position and in second gear on the entry to the next straight section - just long enough....pow...
I think he almost had a heart attack as I went past. The Tiv in second gear at 6Krpm is an awesome noise...
as fast as you can do it and still get back in if need be is the safest way.
shame the law dont allow you to do it the safest way.
plust know when to do and when not too without hesitation.
and always add some space for error, anyone can miss a gear or have a enging prob at the wroung second.
that can screw up the timeing of a overtake.
shame the law dont allow you to do it the safest way.
plust know when to do and when not too without hesitation.
and always add some space for error, anyone can miss a gear or have a enging prob at the wroung second.
that can screw up the timeing of a overtake.
I've over taken a car while watching a BiB driving towards me. There was plenty of space/time and all was well.
Actually, I like overtaking when I can see on coming traffic! Assuming I can see the road ahead (if not I would not overtake...) then being able to see the first oncoming vehicle means I know exactly how much time and distance I have to overtake in.
Actually, I like overtaking when I can see on coming traffic! Assuming I can see the road ahead (if not I would not overtake...) then being able to see the first oncoming vehicle means I know exactly how much time and distance I have to overtake in.
Julian64 said:
Is ALL overtaking illegal. Assuming its not a milkfloat and your trying for a reasonable passing speed. Do the BIB pull you for an overtaking manouver, or accept that you will always be breaking the law, until your safely back on your side?
Some education in need of being dished out ...... any volunteers?
Good luck Jules.
Fat Audi 80 said:
Just to make my question a little clearer, let me give you a hypothetical example.
First thing in the morning (6.30am) dual carriageway clear visability, light traffic consisting of mostly lorries spaced half a mile apart, and the odd slower moving car. Does overtaking them at 95 when they are going 65 sound reasonable or would you slow down to seventy for every obstacle encountered??
Personally I would use my skill and judgement to slide by with up to a 30mph speed differential if I can see that they are driving consistently in a staight line and there are no other hazards present...
I would say that is not reasonable, because you are well in excess of the speed limit. There is much less exposure to danger when overtaking on a multi-lane road, therefore less need to exceed the speed limit.
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