Brown Vs Cameron. The Ultimate discussion!
Discussion
This is obviously going to be a bigger issue as we get closer to the election and especially during the current crisis.
Brown is dull but has come out of this crisis looking like the messiah and appears to as much an international darling as Tony Blair was. His ratings have been all over the place but curiously every time there is a crisis, Northern Rock aside (initially at least) his ratings go through the roof while Cameron just comes across as lost and a whinger.
Cameron on the other hand appears to be finally the Tories answer to Tony Blair...without any of the substance behind him. Despite this he has brought the Tories closer to a possible election success but has fumbled a few times which IMO have revealed that he is nothing but a cup of mochachino eg cycling to work with a jag behind carrying his briefcase (although he gains some points for not obeying the road laws, obviously is grounded unlike other greenies).
IMO if this crisis is still around election time, Labour have it in the bag, if Brown solves it and we come out smelling of Roses, the Tories will win as the press will be back to targetting Brown and Labour as it sells papers.
Brown is dull but has come out of this crisis looking like the messiah and appears to as much an international darling as Tony Blair was. His ratings have been all over the place but curiously every time there is a crisis, Northern Rock aside (initially at least) his ratings go through the roof while Cameron just comes across as lost and a whinger.
Cameron on the other hand appears to be finally the Tories answer to Tony Blair...without any of the substance behind him. Despite this he has brought the Tories closer to a possible election success but has fumbled a few times which IMO have revealed that he is nothing but a cup of mochachino eg cycling to work with a jag behind carrying his briefcase (although he gains some points for not obeying the road laws, obviously is grounded unlike other greenies).
IMO if this crisis is still around election time, Labour have it in the bag, if Brown solves it and we come out smelling of Roses, the Tories will win as the press will be back to targetting Brown and Labour as it sells papers.
alfabadass said:
Brown is dull but has come out of this crisis looking like the messiah
We're not out of this crisis. Brown does not look like the messiahalfabadass said:
Cameron just comes across as lost and a whinger.
When there's a crisis Gordon gets lots of air time and it seems like he's busy. David gets less and I think that is why some people think this.alfabadass said:
without any of the substance behind him.
Where's this come from?alfabadass said:
IMO if this crisis is still around election time, Labour have it in the bag
I think not. True, Brown is doing better in the current crisis, but I think it'll just be a narrower Tory win.Is it me, or did Brown's half arsed spending result in the greatest surplus we've ever had turning into the greatest defecit post war, whilst in a boom time?
Is it not Brown who was the chancellor when the FSA failed to control Uk banks' lending vs. assets?
I have no real time for cameron, but I actively dislike Brown - qnd his right hand man Darling (who laways seems to get cought not answerng questions whenever the subject is not on his terms).
Oh, and Brown's neck puts me off, looks like a turkey's wattle!
Is it not Brown who was the chancellor when the FSA failed to control Uk banks' lending vs. assets?
I have no real time for cameron, but I actively dislike Brown - qnd his right hand man Darling (who laways seems to get cought not answerng questions whenever the subject is not on his terms).
Oh, and Brown's neck puts me off, looks like a turkey's wattle!
The thing is, it can't remotely be said that had the Tories been in power, this country would have been a beacon of sense and probity in a sea of madness. The crisis is truly global, affecting absolutely everybody. Blame Brown as much as you want, and yes, if you want you can believe Cameron could have saved us. But nobody elses leaders saved them, so Cameron must be something very special indeed if you think things would be different had he been PM.
I don't think Labour will win (unless the tories fail to come up with people better than Osbourne). In this crisis, nobody comes out smelling of roses, so i don't really think it will be a big issue come the next election.
Tbh, at the end of the day i don't think anyone will forgive Brown for foisting himself upon us unelected. The only issue will be how badly labour are damaged. Maybe the current crisis may mean they won't be kicked totally into oblivion never to be seen again, who knows.
I don't think Labour will win (unless the tories fail to come up with people better than Osbourne). In this crisis, nobody comes out smelling of roses, so i don't really think it will be a big issue come the next election.
Tbh, at the end of the day i don't think anyone will forgive Brown for foisting himself upon us unelected. The only issue will be how badly labour are damaged. Maybe the current crisis may mean they won't be kicked totally into oblivion never to be seen again, who knows.
Heeb,
In case my other post looks like I was blaming a global thing on GB, I wasn't - I'm just saddened we're so far in debt as a country (i.e government defecit), that there is nowt we can do to kick start the next 5 years, without getting terminally endebted - we're already skint as a nation!
Maybe we should sell the emergency gold.. Oh, maybe not.
In case my other post looks like I was blaming a global thing on GB, I wasn't - I'm just saddened we're so far in debt as a country (i.e government defecit), that there is nowt we can do to kick start the next 5 years, without getting terminally endebted - we're already skint as a nation!
Maybe we should sell the emergency gold.. Oh, maybe not.
Graham E said:
Heeb,
In case my other post looks like I was blaming a global thing on GB, I wasn't - I'm just saddened we're so far in debt as a country (i.e government defecit), that there is nowt we can do to kick start the next 5 years, without getting terminally endebted - we're already skint as a nation!
Maybe we should sell the emergency gold.. Oh, maybe not.
And don't forget the populace themselves are a trillion in debt.In case my other post looks like I was blaming a global thing on GB, I wasn't - I'm just saddened we're so far in debt as a country (i.e government defecit), that there is nowt we can do to kick start the next 5 years, without getting terminally endebted - we're already skint as a nation!
Maybe we should sell the emergency gold.. Oh, maybe not.
We're f
ked.For me it is more of an issue of competance. Labour have been proved incompetant and massive liars to boot.
Everything they touch has turned to disaster. Even the things they claim to be successss are based on lies - the true amount of debt we hold is covered up because of the scandal that is off-balance sheet PFI for roads, hospitals etc.
Labour are responsible for a culture of dependency and entitlement which is slowly destroying the UK and history will not be kind to them.
We simply must get rid of Labour now and keep them out of power for a generation..
Iused to be quite a libertarian, even a little social democratic in outlook. Not any more, a decade of labour has opened my eyes to just how vile, self serving, duplicitous, incompetant, arrogant and despicable this government are. And it goes throughout the party.
If a labour party member turned up at my door , I would have to use supreme effort not to totally lose it with them, which saddens me.
Frankly, any one with any intention to vote Labour needs a sanity check. To me they are totally, completely and utterly indefensible.
And the Tories?
The simple answer is that we just don't know if they are any good. But we DO know that this country is in a bad way and a great deal of its problems are caused by the Labour government. That is all I need to know, to vote Tory next time. Our best and only hope is to give them a go.
Everything they touch has turned to disaster. Even the things they claim to be successss are based on lies - the true amount of debt we hold is covered up because of the scandal that is off-balance sheet PFI for roads, hospitals etc.
Labour are responsible for a culture of dependency and entitlement which is slowly destroying the UK and history will not be kind to them.
We simply must get rid of Labour now and keep them out of power for a generation..
Iused to be quite a libertarian, even a little social democratic in outlook. Not any more, a decade of labour has opened my eyes to just how vile, self serving, duplicitous, incompetant, arrogant and despicable this government are. And it goes throughout the party.
If a labour party member turned up at my door , I would have to use supreme effort not to totally lose it with them, which saddens me.
Frankly, any one with any intention to vote Labour needs a sanity check. To me they are totally, completely and utterly indefensible.
And the Tories?
The simple answer is that we just don't know if they are any good. But we DO know that this country is in a bad way and a great deal of its problems are caused by the Labour government. That is all I need to know, to vote Tory next time. Our best and only hope is to give them a go.
toppstuff said:
For me it is more of an issue of competance. Labour have been proved incompetant and massive liars to boot.
Everything they touch has turned to disaster. Even the things they claim to be successss are based on lies - the true amount of debt we hold is covered up because of the scandal that is off-balance sheet PFI for roads, hospitals etc.
Labour are responsible for a culture of dependency and entitlement which is slowly destroying the UK and history will not be kind to them.
We simply must get rid of Labour now and keep them out of power for a generation..
Iused to be quite a libertarian, even a little social democratic in outlook. Not any more, a decade of labour has opened my eyes to just how vile, self serving, duplicitous, incompetant, arrogant and despicable this government are. And it goes throughout the party.
If a labour party member turned up at my door , I would have to use supreme effort not to totally lose it with them, which saddens me.
Frankly, any one with any intention to vote Labour needs a sanity check. To me they are totally, completely and utterly indefensible.
And the Tories?
The simple answer is that we just don't know if they are any good. But we DO know that this country is in a bad way and a great deal of its problems are caused by the Labour government. That is all I need to know, to vote Tory next time. Our best and only hope is to give them a go.
and what about B N P ??Everything they touch has turned to disaster. Even the things they claim to be successss are based on lies - the true amount of debt we hold is covered up because of the scandal that is off-balance sheet PFI for roads, hospitals etc.
Labour are responsible for a culture of dependency and entitlement which is slowly destroying the UK and history will not be kind to them.
We simply must get rid of Labour now and keep them out of power for a generation..
Iused to be quite a libertarian, even a little social democratic in outlook. Not any more, a decade of labour has opened my eyes to just how vile, self serving, duplicitous, incompetant, arrogant and despicable this government are. And it goes throughout the party.
If a labour party member turned up at my door , I would have to use supreme effort not to totally lose it with them, which saddens me.
Frankly, any one with any intention to vote Labour needs a sanity check. To me they are totally, completely and utterly indefensible.
And the Tories?
The simple answer is that we just don't know if they are any good. But we DO know that this country is in a bad way and a great deal of its problems are caused by the Labour government. That is all I need to know, to vote Tory next time. Our best and only hope is to give them a go.
toppstuff said:
For me it is more of an issue of competance. Labour have been proved incompetant and massive liars to boot.
Everything they touch has turned to disaster. Even the things they claim to be successss are based on lies - the true amount of debt we hold is covered up because of the scandal that is off-balance sheet PFI for roads, hospitals etc.
Labour are responsible for a culture of dependency and entitlement which is slowly destroying the UK and history will not be kind to them.
We simply must get rid of Labour now and keep them out of power for a generation..
Iused to be quite a libertarian, even a little social democratic in outlook. Not any more, a decade of labour has opened my eyes to just how vile, self serving, duplicitous, incompetant, arrogant and despicable this government are. And it goes throughout the party.
If a labour party member turned up at my door , I would have to use supreme effort not to totally lose it with them, which saddens me.
Frankly, any one with any intention to vote Labour needs a sanity check. To me they are totally, completely and utterly indefensible.
And the Tories?
The simple answer is that we just don't know if they are any good. But we DO know that this country is in a bad way and a great deal of its problems are caused by the Labour government. That is all I need to know, to vote Tory next time. Our best and only hope is to give them a go.
and what about B N P ??Everything they touch has turned to disaster. Even the things they claim to be successss are based on lies - the true amount of debt we hold is covered up because of the scandal that is off-balance sheet PFI for roads, hospitals etc.
Labour are responsible for a culture of dependency and entitlement which is slowly destroying the UK and history will not be kind to them.
We simply must get rid of Labour now and keep them out of power for a generation..
Iused to be quite a libertarian, even a little social democratic in outlook. Not any more, a decade of labour has opened my eyes to just how vile, self serving, duplicitous, incompetant, arrogant and despicable this government are. And it goes throughout the party.
If a labour party member turned up at my door , I would have to use supreme effort not to totally lose it with them, which saddens me.
Frankly, any one with any intention to vote Labour needs a sanity check. To me they are totally, completely and utterly indefensible.
And the Tories?
The simple answer is that we just don't know if they are any good. But we DO know that this country is in a bad way and a great deal of its problems are caused by the Labour government. That is all I need to know, to vote Tory next time. Our best and only hope is to give them a go.
rabw said:
alfabadass said:
alfabadass said:
Cameron just comes across as lost and a whinger.
When there's a crisis Gordon gets lots of air time and it seems like he's busy. David gets less and I think that is why some people think this.alfabadass said:
IMO if this crisis is still around election time, Labour have it in the bag
I think not. True, Brown is doing better in the current crisis, but I think it'll just be a narrower Tory win.kambites said:
I don't see any ground, political or moral, between the two main parties and as such, I don't particularly care. I suppose change for change's sake would probably be a good thing, but I don't think it'll really make any difference.
That's where I am. If you can remember the previous lot, then you know that Tory or labour, there really isn't much to choose between them at all. Both equally self serving, incompetent and dishonest. People could do with recalling that under the previous Tory administration, two tory MP's/ministers went to prison!However, we'll have to give Cameron a go. I personally don't think anything will change, but we'll see. Anyone here have much faith in Osbourne?
heebeegeetee said:
Anyone here have much faith in Osbourne?
Yes. He's a devious, mendacious little st. But at least his agenda is out in the open and, by dint of it, you can trust his interest to run broadly in step with most other taxpayers.Don't like him, don't really admire him, but then few politicians ever qualify on either count and fewer still who you'd actually trust to run things.
ETA. You should always question "whats actually 'in it' for them" with any politician. There's sure to be a slice of bread being buttered for every one of them somewhere - if not financially then indealistically.
Edited by Digga on Friday 21st November 12:45
Labour has added 50,000 state sector jobs in the last six months. That is 50,000 more people who will be getting their pensions paid by the rest of us. The reason they have done this is clear: it assures the votes of between 50,000 and 100,000 extra Labour supporters and keeps 50,000 off the unemployment figures.
Zod said:
Labour has added 50,000 state sector jobs in the last six months... keeps 50,000 off the unemployment figures.
Depends upon your opinion on what constitutes employment; a.) the drawing of a salary and benfits or b.) the undertaking of a useful job of work.(FWIW, ultimately I'd say it has to be both.)
Gassing Station | The Pie & Piston Archive | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff