Challenge to BiB ?
Discussion
awwwwwwwwwww. Dilema. Some of you law guys seem very nice, but I can't help but feel I shouldn't trust you. Why do I feel like this? is it that cameras still feel like a shyster backdoor trick? or is it that you are upholding laws I have no faith in? can you tell me why me, and most other people don't like camera operators, and traffic cops? persuade me that you really save lives, convince me that you genuinely care about people and not the money, and you convince thousands.
So you're only following orders? yeah? well lots of German army soldiers did that too. Maybe an unfair comparison, but it is the thin end of the wedge, and YOU DO have the power to complain to your bosses. Do you argue back at policy?
C'mon, I want to beleive. I MUST beleive if I am to be on your side. And when I say "I", you may read "the public".
Go on. YOu know you can. I really hope you can convince me. Tonyrec in particular, I feel you are reaching out to us with lots of new thought provoking threads.. is this a new wave of infiltration of enthuisiast web sites, or is it because you truly care? I hope to god that you care, and that you can spread the word to your BiB comrades.... but I am scared that this is all a ploy. I have heard from a Police cheif that BiB are paid to do just this. I hope you don't read this the wrong way, but I think I am voicing the concerns of many people. Please don't take offense if my paranoia gets the better of me - I have had recent bad experience of a Traffic Department! It didn't make me feel confident of a fair hearing, or reinforce my trust - consider the basic premise of Policing as "uphold the law" and "protect the innocent". Hmmmmmmmmm. Outlaw would disagree, and from my perspective.... so do I. Sorry again if this sounds negative.
best regards.
So you're only following orders? yeah? well lots of German army soldiers did that too. Maybe an unfair comparison, but it is the thin end of the wedge, and YOU DO have the power to complain to your bosses. Do you argue back at policy?
C'mon, I want to beleive. I MUST beleive if I am to be on your side. And when I say "I", you may read "the public".
Go on. YOu know you can. I really hope you can convince me. Tonyrec in particular, I feel you are reaching out to us with lots of new thought provoking threads.. is this a new wave of infiltration of enthuisiast web sites, or is it because you truly care? I hope to god that you care, and that you can spread the word to your BiB comrades.... but I am scared that this is all a ploy. I have heard from a Police cheif that BiB are paid to do just this. I hope you don't read this the wrong way, but I think I am voicing the concerns of many people. Please don't take offense if my paranoia gets the better of me - I have had recent bad experience of a Traffic Department! It didn't make me feel confident of a fair hearing, or reinforce my trust - consider the basic premise of Policing as "uphold the law" and "protect the innocent". Hmmmmmmmmm. Outlaw would disagree, and from my perspective.... so do I. Sorry again if this sounds negative.
best regards.
I dont "trust" the cops full stop. I can understand why they do the job, why we need them.
TC, and MC and Geminii(forgive me for the ones my feeble brain has forgotten) have been able and fair contributors to this site.
In fact, MC was the first copper to take issue with something i said regarding scamera operators (iirc).
Since coming here, my perceptions of the guys has changed....but, as with yourself Carl, the doubts still remain.... I suppose they always will.
This despite the fact that ive had no real dealings with em, unlike some here (ay Outlaw?
).
Maybe eventually, when the scameras are dead and buried, maybe then ill feel easier in their company........
.
TC, and MC and Geminii(forgive me for the ones my feeble brain has forgotten) have been able and fair contributors to this site.
In fact, MC was the first copper to take issue with something i said regarding scamera operators (iirc).
Since coming here, my perceptions of the guys has changed....but, as with yourself Carl, the doubts still remain.... I suppose they always will.
This despite the fact that ive had no real dealings with em, unlike some here (ay Outlaw?
). Maybe eventually, when the scameras are dead and buried, maybe then ill feel easier in their company........
. Hertsbiker.......
I dont know why but you have just made me smile.I believe that deep down you know the answer to this one and you know that myself and the other BiB are here because we enjoy being here and more to the fact, we are Petrolheads.
You certainly wouldnt see me or Madcop on a Laurs Ashley website would you?
Seriously though,im pleased that you like the threads that im posting and are finding them informative. I certainly enjoy reading the replies of everyone, other BiBs included.
The pleasing thing about this website is that you are getting our own points of view, shooting from the hip as they say without looking over our shoulder and being 100% politically correct etc etc.
This is very evident from my posts re the Talivans.
If it got to the stage where we had to think about what we write etc etc then i for one would go into read only mode.
Then again,i believe that you suspected all of this already.
Im pleased that we are getting the chance to smooth a few roads and build a few bridges, but rest assured..its because we want to and not because we are told too.
Edited to say that one day we will meet up and i hope that we can buy each other a drink
>> Edited by tonyrec on Thursday 9th October 23:46
I dont know why but you have just made me smile.I believe that deep down you know the answer to this one and you know that myself and the other BiB are here because we enjoy being here and more to the fact, we are Petrolheads.
You certainly wouldnt see me or Madcop on a Laurs Ashley website would you?
Seriously though,im pleased that you like the threads that im posting and are finding them informative. I certainly enjoy reading the replies of everyone, other BiBs included.
The pleasing thing about this website is that you are getting our own points of view, shooting from the hip as they say without looking over our shoulder and being 100% politically correct etc etc.
This is very evident from my posts re the Talivans.
If it got to the stage where we had to think about what we write etc etc then i for one would go into read only mode.
Then again,i believe that you suspected all of this already.
Im pleased that we are getting the chance to smooth a few roads and build a few bridges, but rest assured..its because we want to and not because we are told too.
Edited to say that one day we will meet up and i hope that we can buy each other a drink
>> Edited by tonyrec on Thursday 9th October 23:46
Ok, my first posting, so no flames please! 
Start Personal_Opinion
{After reading the threads over the last few day's I get the impression that our BiB members sometimes don't share their views totally with us, and I can't say I would blame them. I don't think they agree with the laws, but obviously are too professional to say anything.
}
It's not their job to make the rules, they just enforce them. If you don't like the rules then blame the treehuggers and "speed kills" groups who convince our spineless political leaders to pass these laws!
In my line of work I sometimes have to enforce company policies that I don't agree with, but at the end of the day that is my job. I can try to convince the powers that be that thier policies are wrong, but until they change them, there is not much to be done about it.
Just my 2p.
Timsta
Start Personal_Opinion
{After reading the threads over the last few day's I get the impression that our BiB members sometimes don't share their views totally with us, and I can't say I would blame them. I don't think they agree with the laws, but obviously are too professional to say anything.
}
It's not their job to make the rules, they just enforce them. If you don't like the rules then blame the treehuggers and "speed kills" groups who convince our spineless political leaders to pass these laws!
In my line of work I sometimes have to enforce company policies that I don't agree with, but at the end of the day that is my job. I can try to convince the powers that be that thier policies are wrong, but until they change them, there is not much to be done about it.
Just my 2p.
Timsta
timsta said:
Start Personal_Opinion
{After reading the threads over the last few day's I get the impression that our BiB members sometimes don't share their views totally with us, and I can't say I would blame them. I don't think they agree with the laws, but obviously are too professional to say anything.
Welcome.
May i be the first person to disagree with you?
I feel that the threads of the last few days have resulted in extremely frank replies from all the BiBs.
If you read the one on pursuits and in particular Madcops reply then you would see what i mean.
But on the other hand, you are correct, there will be ocassions when for obvious reasons we will not share the views of people on here but i put that down to our informed position.
That for me is what makes this site the way that it is..lots of people from different backgrounds putting their independant views forward to discussion.
I suppose trust and respect go both ways.
My perception of the public, and the things that they can do to each other changed when I joined the job.
I won't go on and on and if you don't trust the police as a whole then a few threads on this forum certainly aren't going to change things.
I am not currently working in traffic, and will never operate a camera as its 'not my bag'.
Traffic police get a bad name which is undeserved, the tag of 'operating magic hairdryers' is a bad one, and traffic regularly help in other matters district wide. (along with abloads)-probably the most boring job in the world.
Just following orders like the german army. Yes, we are paid to uphold the law, are bound by them and stick to them. Shooting someone in the head or gassing them is a different matter.
You forget, officers can use discretion in every matter, this is the best tool in the box. Every situation is different, and has a different outcome. The delicate line (thin blue one?!) is a difficult one but a very rewarding one when done properly. Something I try to do. This was demonstrated recently when my wife and children were with me outside a carpet shop, I saw a male who I have arrested countless times, have had countless physical confrontations, bla bla, here we go I thought. To which he said hello, nodded to my wife, we had a short conversation, and off he went. So, something must have been done right. (And no, I didn't check him for warrants when he was with me....)
I try to practice treating people as I would like to be treated myself.
However. There is a line, the police have a role of authority, and in order to keep that sometimes you have to be hard.
Anyone that shouts "F*** off pig" Or words like that when I am out and about will certainly be dealt with positively, as public perception of the police would get even worse if the officer lets that sort of behaviour go.
Likewise, if someone goes to headbutt me then I will hit him harder, and he will end up in cells overnight.
A thin line, however respect and discretion are the best option.
I left school (in a rough council area of south wales) Joined the forces, and after 8.5 years joined the Police, it is the best move I could have made and enjoy it intensely. I ask myself why I enjoy it every day but still do.
I doubt if this post will change anyones perception of the police. We are normal blokes with an interest in motoring and try to help out as much as possible with peoples questions. As indeed other people help out with ours.
Anyway, I got caught by a camera the other day, so I have given myself a good talking to, got a bit lippy so smacked myself a good one.
All the best folks
Mike.
My perception of the public, and the things that they can do to each other changed when I joined the job.
I won't go on and on and if you don't trust the police as a whole then a few threads on this forum certainly aren't going to change things.
I am not currently working in traffic, and will never operate a camera as its 'not my bag'.
Traffic police get a bad name which is undeserved, the tag of 'operating magic hairdryers' is a bad one, and traffic regularly help in other matters district wide. (along with abloads)-probably the most boring job in the world.
Just following orders like the german army. Yes, we are paid to uphold the law, are bound by them and stick to them. Shooting someone in the head or gassing them is a different matter.
You forget, officers can use discretion in every matter, this is the best tool in the box. Every situation is different, and has a different outcome. The delicate line (thin blue one?!) is a difficult one but a very rewarding one when done properly. Something I try to do. This was demonstrated recently when my wife and children were with me outside a carpet shop, I saw a male who I have arrested countless times, have had countless physical confrontations, bla bla, here we go I thought. To which he said hello, nodded to my wife, we had a short conversation, and off he went. So, something must have been done right. (And no, I didn't check him for warrants when he was with me....)
I try to practice treating people as I would like to be treated myself.
However. There is a line, the police have a role of authority, and in order to keep that sometimes you have to be hard.
Anyone that shouts "F*** off pig" Or words like that when I am out and about will certainly be dealt with positively, as public perception of the police would get even worse if the officer lets that sort of behaviour go.
Likewise, if someone goes to headbutt me then I will hit him harder, and he will end up in cells overnight.
A thin line, however respect and discretion are the best option.
I left school (in a rough council area of south wales) Joined the forces, and after 8.5 years joined the Police, it is the best move I could have made and enjoy it intensely. I ask myself why I enjoy it every day but still do.
I doubt if this post will change anyones perception of the police. We are normal blokes with an interest in motoring and try to help out as much as possible with peoples questions. As indeed other people help out with ours.
Anyway, I got caught by a camera the other day, so I have given myself a good talking to, got a bit lippy so smacked myself a good one.
All the best folks
Mike.
hertsbiker said:
So you're only following orders? yeah? well lots of German army soldiers did that too. Maybe an unfair comparison, but it is the thin end of the wedge, and YOU DO have the power to complain to your bosses. Do you argue back at policy?
Whenever I've done that at the places I've worked, the only change I've been able to effect is my employment status!
Seriously, this thread www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=61004&f=10&h=0&p=3 (Madcop's post, 3rd one down)will give you an idea of what the police are up against in terms of policy & management. I'm surprised that they don't all just get up & walk out!! At the end of the day, if you're not breaking the law, you're not putting yourself in a position where you could have reason to be distrustful (is that even a word?!
) of the police. Obviously everyone's experience's of dealing with the police will differ. I've had a couple of "car-related" run-ins with the police and although they were a pain (NOT the police, just the whole incident), I'm prepared to cut them some slack 'cos I know that I wouldn't wanna be out there having to deal with some of the stuff THEY do.
I post on here because when I was first introduced to the site (by someone from PH that I took for a driving tuition session) I was astounded by the rumour and inuendo that ws rife about procedure, law and policy. I decided that from my point of view it was better to dispel legend and myth and print the truth in relatiion to how things work. Most of this is done from the knowledge I have gained over the last 2 decades and with a little help from some text books.
I post from home as I do not have access to the net at work (well, I do as there are some terminals that have access) but they take so long to connect and change through the various pages that I find I cannot be bothered and most of the time, I am too busy anyway.
I do not know of anyone who is payed to contribute to these boards.
Even after my length of service, I still have a very strong sense and belief of what is right and wrong and still want to try and redress the balance in favour of the right way to behave to maintain the stautus-quo of the modern society we live in. Some of these things I personally do not agree with, especially if they happen to curtail my particular enjoyment of life (No gags about sheep please [and anyway I dont originate from across the bridge
]).
I did not join the Police to make friends and be liked by those that I come into contact with. If that is a by product of my interactions with them, then it is a bonus. No police officer is so naive as to believe that he can change opinion of people that have had bad or bitter experience of the Police or the legal system in general. All I would say is that the Police are a small but very often the first part in the legal process. To blame the Police for the ills of this antiquated system because they happen to be the first point of contact is unfair but inevitably comes with the territory. We accept that
Oh and by the way Carl, in some areas, I don't trust them either (Other BiB on PH should know exactly what I am talking about too!)
I post from home as I do not have access to the net at work (well, I do as there are some terminals that have access) but they take so long to connect and change through the various pages that I find I cannot be bothered and most of the time, I am too busy anyway.
I do not know of anyone who is payed to contribute to these boards.
Even after my length of service, I still have a very strong sense and belief of what is right and wrong and still want to try and redress the balance in favour of the right way to behave to maintain the stautus-quo of the modern society we live in. Some of these things I personally do not agree with, especially if they happen to curtail my particular enjoyment of life (No gags about sheep please [and anyway I dont originate from across the bridge
]). I did not join the Police to make friends and be liked by those that I come into contact with. If that is a by product of my interactions with them, then it is a bonus. No police officer is so naive as to believe that he can change opinion of people that have had bad or bitter experience of the Police or the legal system in general. All I would say is that the Police are a small but very often the first part in the legal process. To blame the Police for the ills of this antiquated system because they happen to be the first point of contact is unfair but inevitably comes with the territory. We accept that
Oh and by the way Carl, in some areas, I don't trust them either
(Other BiB on PH should know exactly what I am talking about too!) 
As I thought ! you guys on here are the real deal, and doing a good job. Well, you have cheered me up, even if you've sort of confirmed my fears about some of your bretheren. I'd be most happy to have a pint with you guys... now, all you gotta do now is convert the rest to the PH way.
Have a great weekend.
Have a great weekend.
silverback mike said:
I suppose trust and respect go
Anyway, I got caught by a camera the other day, so I have given myself a good talking to, got a bit lippy so smacked myself a good one.
All the best folks
Mike.
want a can of unleaded and a old tire ?
I got a few spare ones
>> Edited by outlaw on Saturday 11th October 06:29
outlaw said:
I suppose trust and respect go
Anyway, I got caught by a camera the other day, so I have given myself a good talking to, got a bit lippy so smacked myself a good one.
All the best folks
Mike.
want a can of unleaded and a old tire ?
I got a few spare ones
>> Edited by outlaw on Saturday 11th October 06:29
"I suppose trust and respect go"
You have doctored my quote to read what you want it to - Not sure I am happy with that. I wouldn't change your quotes. I would be obliged if you read, and quote it as it was written.
Unleaded? I have my own views but certainly won't publish them....
T4R .....Hope your keyboard is ok!
Carl mate "Will Crash" has stated on this board about the siting of Talivans i.e he only goes to sites which meet the requirements,not where the parnerships want.Although he cant say "bollix I aint doing that" at least he does it sensibly not like the partnerships.
What im trying to say is many things go on that we don't hear/see.Only because they post here we hear snippets and learn FACTS and our knowledge is vastly increased compared to many drivers.
They (plod) are mainly good eggs but as with any group drawn from society there will be the odd rotten apple
All IMHO
What im trying to say is many things go on that we don't hear/see.Only because they post here we hear snippets and learn FACTS and our knowledge is vastly increased compared to many drivers.
They (plod) are mainly good eggs but as with any group drawn from society there will be the odd rotten apple
All IMHO
silverback mike said:
outlaw said:
silverback mike said:
I suppose trust and respect go
Anyway, I got caught by a camera the other day, so I have given myself a good talking to, got a bit lippy so smacked myself a good one.
All the best folks
Mike.
want a can of unleaded and a old tire ?
I got a few spare ones
>> Edited by outlaw on Saturday 11th October 06:29
"I suppose trust and respect go"
You have doctored my quote to read what you want it to - Not sure I am happy with that. I wouldn't change your quotes. I would be obliged if you read, and quote it as it was written.
Unleaded? I have my own views but certainly won't publish them....
T4R .....Hope your keyboard is ok!
No I did not alter it m8. I was just quoteing the speed cam bit
I forgot to cut the other bit and dident bother to editing it.
you say You have your own views, but you wont state them.
WHY ?
are you unable to speek you mind?
shawly thats what this forum is about ie personal views.
so why not speek you mind on the subject ?
If you got a view put it forward.
ps Keyboards fine now. I managed to find and old indestructable singal switched keyboard, off an old work station.
I hate the moden cheap shit. They sell maskerading as a keyboards.
>> Edited by outlaw on Saturday 11th October 22:29
Thats ok then. Misquotes are forgivable!
Yes, I have my own opinions, and I can choose who I tell them.
I will never advocate an act of criminal damage, I may not like cameras, and think speeding can be dealt with in other ways, but for me to say that setting light to them would be ludicrously stupid.
Believe me, I am not one to be gagged, and if anyone knew me would laugh their socks off thinking that I was afraid to share my views.
Anyway, my postman may deliver a nice NIP shortly, you never know.....deep joy.
Mike.
PS Have you sorted your astra out yet?
Yes, I have my own opinions, and I can choose who I tell them.
I will never advocate an act of criminal damage, I may not like cameras, and think speeding can be dealt with in other ways, but for me to say that setting light to them would be ludicrously stupid.
Believe me, I am not one to be gagged, and if anyone knew me would laugh their socks off thinking that I was afraid to share my views.
Anyway, my postman may deliver a nice NIP shortly, you never know.....deep joy.
Mike.
PS Have you sorted your astra out yet?
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