what sick @$#% thinks this sh1t up ??!!!
Discussion
http://drive.fairfax.com.au/content-new/news/general/2003/10/10/FFXGWV44LLD.html">www.drive.com.au/news/article.asp?article=http://drive.fairfax.com.au/content-new/news/general/2003/10/10/FFXGWV44LLD.html
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Speeding motorists could lose their licences and be fined several times on a single trip when new point-to-point speed cameras are turned on in Victoria for Christmas.
In coming weeks, five banks of cameras will be installed and tested at intervals up to 60 kilometres apart along the Hume Freeway.
Legislation was introduced to Parliament yesterday to set up the legal basis for their introduction -- the new offence of exceeding the limit by an average speed.
But Transport Minister Peter Batchelor, Police and Emergency Services Minister Andre Haermeyer and the state's top traffic policeman, acting Assistant Commissioner Bob Hastings, could not say how many fines a motorist would receive for repeated breaches of the speed limit on a single journey.
The cameras, costing $1.9 million, are used to calculate the average speed of cars on the 300-kilometre journey between Melbourne's northern fringe at Craigieburn and Wodonga, or parts of it.
They do so by reading a car's number plate and calculating the time the car took to travel from the previous camera.
Drivers whose progress between camera intervals is faster than the speed limit would have allowed will be snapped.
The cameras also take pictures of cars speeding past, as the existing fixed speed cameras do now. There will be a speed tolerance of 3kmh.
In theory, a motorist who speeds from Craigieburn to the border -- or vice versa -- would rack up nine detectable offences: five for speeding past each of the cameras, and four for speeding in the intervals between them.
Currently, the penalty for speeding by 10kmh is $200 and three demerit points for each offence.
The number of fines to be issued was a matter for police discretion, Mr Batchelor said. The principles of double jeopardy applied.
"Under the general principles of double jeopardy, you can't be fined twice for the same offence," he said.
"But if you're speeding in Wodonga and Craigieburn, you may cop two separate fines for the two offences. But you won't be, as I understand, fined for two offences at Craigieburn." A motorist whose average speed from Wodonga to Craigieburn exceeded the limit would attract one fine, Mr Batchelor said.
But on the same point, Mr Hastings said drivers could end up with one or more fines.
"We'll be using our discretion . . . to look at what the circumstances are as to whether you get one, two . . . and whether they are licence-loss offences," he said.
"Potentially you could get five fines over each bank of cameras. I suspect we'll develop a policy which will determine what is fair and what is reasonable."
Mr Haermeyer said the matter was still to be sorted out.
"We're still working it out with the police," he said.
"The way the police have applied it on the fixed-site cameras around Melbourne is they've worked on a 15 minute basis whereby you shouldn't be booked on the same freeway with two cameras less than 15 minutes apart."
Mr Batchelor said the cameras, once installed and tested, would be used at "high-risk" times, such as holidays.
They would be turned off to evaluate the exercise, until the next break, he said.
If the cameras passed their evaluation process they would be turned on all the time, he said.
Opposition transport spokesman Terry Mulder scoffed at the plan. "Do you really believe he's going to turn them on, then turn them off?" he said. Treasurer John Brumby "would be having heart palpitations" if he heard, Mr Mulder said.
He said the Opposition's policy was yet to be worked out.
Mr Batchelor said 37 people had been killed and 827 injured on the Hume Highway in the past five years, and high speeds were a factor.
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and you guys think you've got it tough!
false number plates coming up!
or what if you decide to play games with this and give your mate one of your plates and have photos of your plate 3 seconds apart
(mind you both cars would have to be the same and drivers look similar)
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Speeding motorists could lose their licences and be fined several times on a single trip when new point-to-point speed cameras are turned on in Victoria for Christmas.
In coming weeks, five banks of cameras will be installed and tested at intervals up to 60 kilometres apart along the Hume Freeway.
Legislation was introduced to Parliament yesterday to set up the legal basis for their introduction -- the new offence of exceeding the limit by an average speed.
But Transport Minister Peter Batchelor, Police and Emergency Services Minister Andre Haermeyer and the state's top traffic policeman, acting Assistant Commissioner Bob Hastings, could not say how many fines a motorist would receive for repeated breaches of the speed limit on a single journey.
The cameras, costing $1.9 million, are used to calculate the average speed of cars on the 300-kilometre journey between Melbourne's northern fringe at Craigieburn and Wodonga, or parts of it.
They do so by reading a car's number plate and calculating the time the car took to travel from the previous camera.
Drivers whose progress between camera intervals is faster than the speed limit would have allowed will be snapped.
The cameras also take pictures of cars speeding past, as the existing fixed speed cameras do now. There will be a speed tolerance of 3kmh.
In theory, a motorist who speeds from Craigieburn to the border -- or vice versa -- would rack up nine detectable offences: five for speeding past each of the cameras, and four for speeding in the intervals between them.
Currently, the penalty for speeding by 10kmh is $200 and three demerit points for each offence.
The number of fines to be issued was a matter for police discretion, Mr Batchelor said. The principles of double jeopardy applied.
"Under the general principles of double jeopardy, you can't be fined twice for the same offence," he said.
"But if you're speeding in Wodonga and Craigieburn, you may cop two separate fines for the two offences. But you won't be, as I understand, fined for two offences at Craigieburn." A motorist whose average speed from Wodonga to Craigieburn exceeded the limit would attract one fine, Mr Batchelor said.
But on the same point, Mr Hastings said drivers could end up with one or more fines.
"We'll be using our discretion . . . to look at what the circumstances are as to whether you get one, two . . . and whether they are licence-loss offences," he said.
"Potentially you could get five fines over each bank of cameras. I suspect we'll develop a policy which will determine what is fair and what is reasonable."
Mr Haermeyer said the matter was still to be sorted out.
"We're still working it out with the police," he said.
"The way the police have applied it on the fixed-site cameras around Melbourne is they've worked on a 15 minute basis whereby you shouldn't be booked on the same freeway with two cameras less than 15 minutes apart."
Mr Batchelor said the cameras, once installed and tested, would be used at "high-risk" times, such as holidays.
They would be turned off to evaluate the exercise, until the next break, he said.
If the cameras passed their evaluation process they would be turned on all the time, he said.
Opposition transport spokesman Terry Mulder scoffed at the plan. "Do you really believe he's going to turn them on, then turn them off?" he said. Treasurer John Brumby "would be having heart palpitations" if he heard, Mr Mulder said.
He said the Opposition's policy was yet to be worked out.
Mr Batchelor said 37 people had been killed and 827 injured on the Hume Highway in the past five years, and high speeds were a factor.
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and you guys think you've got it tough!
false number plates coming up!
or what if you decide to play games with this and give your mate one of your plates and have photos of your plate 3 seconds apart
(mind you both cars would have to be the same and drivers look similar)
unrepentant said:
I was worried for a second. Then I realised it would only affect Aussies so what the .
What about that Mattie Hayden then? Still, it's only Zimbabwe.Looking forward to stuffing you guys in the Rugby given a chance.
yeah, watched Matty today clobber those guys the same way he has been doing it to ALL other countries
Bet you guys would like him to be playing for you though
England may win the WC but I wouldn't put money on it, the All Blacks are better bets (until they choke
) If these average speed laws get up in a big way, watching rugby may be all that's left for us motorists that like spirited driving
nubbin said:
Specs en masse....it'll happen here if Blair and his "Safety camera partnerships" get voted in again. You know what to do....
Yes but have any of the other political parties said they will stop installing cameras? Even if they stop, you can bet your life that they wont remove the ones all ready in existence.
Does ayone know more details? If I was voting purely on these matters which political party is best for the motorist?
Are the Aussies going to go along with this? Usually I have found my Australian friends to be very, very forthright in their objections to such things.
Personally I strongly object to such "average times" cameras from the perspective of civil liberty. Why should Government know what journeys I go on, where I have been, how long for. Its only a short step to wanting to know *why I went*.
If I still lived in Australia I think I would now be taking direct action. I wouldn't be surprised if many Australians did...
Personally I strongly object to such "average times" cameras from the perspective of civil liberty. Why should Government know what journeys I go on, where I have been, how long for. Its only a short step to wanting to know *why I went*.
If I still lived in Australia I think I would now be taking direct action. I wouldn't be surprised if many Australians did...
centurion07 said:Checking the speedo on the Wedge against Origin B2 speed revealed that my speedo over-reads (thankfully) by ~5% between 30mph (32 registered) and 70mph (74 registered).
I think a 3mph tolerance would be hard to enforce, let alone a 3KPH one. I thought most speedo's were only accurate to about 10% give or take? Surely there's some room there for a dodgy conviction?
centurion07 said:
I think a 3mph tolerance would be hard to enforce, let alone a 3KPH one. I thought most speedo's were only accurate to about 10% give or take? Surely there's some room there for a dodgy conviction?
mate, they have been fining people for doing 1kph over the speed limit!!!
Some poor woman was fined 3 times in one day for doing less than 3kph each time while organising her father's funeral!!
They have cameras here bringing in over $2M each per year doing this crap.
Some of the cameras are set to trigger the flash even if it doesn't take the photo...that's mental torture for the couple of weeks it takes to find out if you're pinged or not, even when you're sure you were driving slow.
Mates of mine have Angels, radar detectors and laser jammers but you can still get done by the planes in the sky timing you between specific lines painted on the road here and now some twisted %#$@ has come up with this pile of crap.
It's a matter of time before it comes to a town near you,,imagine these things taking a photo of you as you get on the M1 going north and then checking your times along the way ????
The recognition software is getting better everyday and some car-hating bint will find a way of keeping tabs on you
streaky said:
I think a 3mph tolerance would be hard to enforce, let alone a 3KPH one. I thought most speedo's were only accurate to about 10% give or take? Surely there's some room there for a dodgy conviction?
Checking the speedo on the Wedge against Origin B2 speed revealed that my speedo over-reads (thankfully) by ~5% between 30mph (32 registered) and 70mph (74 registered).
The whole idea of this 3kph nonsense is to make you so afraid, so that youll drive everywhere at 20......they dont want you to get anywhere near the "limits".....although they have no idea what a limit might actually be...cnuts.
justme said:
I guess people will have to become creative when it comes to ways of registering their vehicles.
I'm talking about LEGAL ways of bypassing this big-brother crap
I remember reading sometime ago that Eddie Stobart was registering some of his lorries in Belgium or somewhere to circumvent UK road tax. Could one register one's car in another country and drive it in the UK or is there still a limit on the time you can keep a car on foreign plates?
Unfortunately yes - 6 months
www.dvla.gov.uk/vehicles/exptimpt.htm#Temporarily%20Imported%20Vehicles
www.dvla.gov.uk/vehicles/exptimpt.htm#Temporarily%20Imported%20Vehicles
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