Defender Chassis Swap

[GuinnessMK]

I have an old 110 CSW Defender 2.5 td that is going in for it's MOT on Friday. I suspect it is going to fail, spectacularly! Rather than patch weld the chassis, I was thinking of a new replacement chassis from one of the more reputable suppliers.

Then I spotted a TD5 chassis / engine / gearbox combo in a mate's scrap yard. Chassis looks clean enough.

Question is, can I take the axles / suspension / prop and body shell off mine and fit it to this old chassis? Will I need to re-register it / SVA it?

I guess most old Defenders have had some parts replaced over the years, new engines fitted etc, but is doing it all in one hit going to be too much for the DVLA / VOSA?

Cheers

Mike

[Mr POD]

GuinnessMK said:

I have an old 110 CSW Defender 2.5 td that is going in for it's MOT on Friday. I suspect it is going to fail, spectacularly! Rather than patch weld the chassis, I was thinking of a new replacement chassis from one of the more reputable suppliers.

Then I spotted a TD5 chassis / engine / gearbox combo in a mate's scrap yard. Chassis looks clean enough.

Question is, can I take the axles / suspension / prop and body shell off mine and fit it to this old chassis? Will I need to re-register it / SVA it?

I guess most old Defenders have had some parts replaced over the years, new engines fitted etc, but is doing it all in one hit going to be too much for the DVLA / VOSA?

Cheers

Mike

On the Direct Govt website the answer is there !!

http://www.mk2cav.com/forum/index.php?topic=12291....

http://direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/BuyingAndSellingA...

[quote author=THE LAW ]


Registering a rebuilt vehicle, kit car and kit conversion If you are rebuilding a vehicle, or building a vehicle from a kit or kit conversion, it will need to meet certain criteria before the vehicle can be registered. The Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) local office will assign the original or an appropriate registration mark on the evidence provided.
Vehicles that have been rebuilt using a mix of new or used parts

In order to retain the original registration mark:

cars and car-derived vans must use:
The original unmodified chassis or unaltered bodyshell (i.e. body and chassis as one unit - monocoque); or a new chassis or monocoque bodyshell of the [font=Verdana]same specification as the original supported by evidence[/font] from the dealer or manufacturer (e.g. receipt).

And two other major components from the original vehicle - ie suspension (front & back); steering assembly; axles (both); transmission or engine.

If a second-hand chassis or monocoque bodyshell is used, the vehicle must pass a an enhanced single vehicle approval (ESVA) or single vehicle approval (SVA) test after which a "Q" prefix registration number will be allocated.

Kit Conversions
This is where a kit of new parts is added to an existing vehicle or old parts are added to a kit comprising a manufactured body, chassis or monocoque bodyshell. The general appearance of the vehicle will change and result in a revised description on the registration certificate.

A vehicle will retain its donor registration mark if either the original unmodified chassis or unaltered monocoque bodyshell and two other major components are used. If a new monocoque bodyshell or chassis from a specialist kit manufacturer is used (or an altered chassis or bodyshell from an existing vehicle) together with two major components from a donor vehicle, an age related mark will be assigned. The mark will be based on the age of the donor vehicle. An ESVA, SVA or MSVA test will be required to register the vehicle.

Where there are insufficient parts from a donor vehicle or in cases where the original registration mark is unknown, an ESVA, SVA or MSVA certificate will be required to register the vehicle and a 'Q' prefix registration number will be allocated.

[skwdenyer]

Mr POD said:

GuinnessMK said:

I have an old 110 CSW Defender 2.5 td that is going in for it's MOT on Friday. I suspect it is going to fail, spectacularly! Rather than patch weld the chassis, I was thinking of a new replacement chassis from one of the more reputable suppliers.

Then I spotted a TD5 chassis / engine / gearbox combo in a mate's scrap yard. Chassis looks clean enough.

Question is, can I take the axles / suspension / prop and body shell off mine and fit it to this old chassis? Will I need to re-register it / SVA it?

I guess most old Defenders have had some parts replaced over the years, new engines fitted etc, but is doing it all in one hit going to be too much for the DVLA / VOSA?

Cheers

Mike

On the Direct Govt website the answer is there !!

http://www.mk2cav.com/forum/index.php?topic=12291....

http://direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/BuyingAndSellingA...

[quote author=THE LAW ]


Registering a rebuilt vehicle, kit car and kit conversion If you are rebuilding a vehicle, or building a vehicle from a kit or kit conversion, it will need to meet certain criteria before the vehicle can be registered. The Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) local office will assign the original or an appropriate registration mark on the evidence provided.
Vehicles that have been rebuilt using a mix of new or used parts

In order to retain the original registration mark:

cars and car-derived vans must use:
The original unmodified chassis or unaltered bodyshell (i.e. body and chassis as one unit - monocoque); or a new chassis or monocoque bodyshell of the [font=Verdana]same specification as the original supported by evidence[/font] from the dealer or manufacturer (e.g. receipt).

And two other major components from the original vehicle - ie suspension (front & back); steering assembly; axles (both); transmission or engine.

If a second-hand chassis or monocoque bodyshell is used, the vehicle must pass a an enhanced single vehicle approval (ESVA) or single vehicle approval (SVA) test after which a "Q" prefix registration number will be allocated.

Kit Conversions
This is where a kit of new parts is added to an existing vehicle or old parts are added to a kit comprising a manufactured body, chassis or monocoque bodyshell. The general appearance of the vehicle will change and result in a revised description on the registration certificate.

A vehicle will retain its donor registration mark if either the original unmodified chassis or unaltered monocoque bodyshell and two other major components are used. If a new monocoque bodyshell or chassis from a specialist kit manufacturer is used (or an altered chassis or bodyshell from an existing vehicle) together with two major components from a donor vehicle, an age related mark will be assigned. The mark will be based on the age of the donor vehicle. An ESVA, SVA or MSVA test will be required to register the vehicle.

Where there are insufficient parts from a donor vehicle or in cases where the original registration mark is unknown, an ESVA, SVA or MSVA certificate will be required to register the vehicle and a 'Q' prefix registration number will be allocated.

I'm sure that nobody would ever dream of putting the chassis number from an old chassis onto a replacement chassis, of course. Or simply cutting out the chassis number and a section of chassis from the old chassis and stitching it into the new chassis - essentially the new chassis becoming an enormous "repair panel"...

[Horse_Apple]

skwdenyer said:

Mr POD said:

GuinnessMK said:

I have an old 110 CSW Defender 2.5 td that is going in for it's MOT on Friday. I suspect it is going to fail, spectacularly! Rather than patch weld the chassis, I was thinking of a new replacement chassis from one of the more reputable suppliers.

Then I spotted a TD5 chassis / engine / gearbox combo in a mate's scrap yard. Chassis looks clean enough.

Question is, can I take the axles / suspension / prop and body shell off mine and fit it to this old chassis? Will I need to re-register it / SVA it?

I guess most old Defenders have had some parts replaced over the years, new engines fitted etc, but is doing it all in one hit going to be too much for the DVLA / VOSA?

Cheers

Mike

On the Direct Govt website the answer is there !!

http://www.mk2cav.com/forum/index.php?topic=12291....

http://direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/BuyingAndSellingA...

[quote author=THE LAW ]


Registering a rebuilt vehicle, kit car and kit conversion If you are rebuilding a vehicle, or building a vehicle from a kit or kit conversion, it will need to meet certain criteria before the vehicle can be registered. The Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) local office will assign the original or an appropriate registration mark on the evidence provided.
Vehicles that have been rebuilt using a mix of new or used parts

In order to retain the original registration mark:

cars and car-derived vans must use:
The original unmodified chassis or unaltered bodyshell (i.e. body and chassis as one unit - monocoque); or a new chassis or monocoque bodyshell of the [font=Verdana]same specification as the original supported by evidence[/font] from the dealer or manufacturer (e.g. receipt).

And two other major components from the original vehicle - ie suspension (front & back); steering assembly; axles (both); transmission or engine.

If a second-hand chassis or monocoque bodyshell is used, the vehicle must pass a an enhanced single vehicle approval (ESVA) or single vehicle approval (SVA) test after which a "Q" prefix registration number will be allocated.

Kit Conversions
This is where a kit of new parts is added to an existing vehicle or old parts are added to a kit comprising a manufactured body, chassis or monocoque bodyshell. The general appearance of the vehicle will change and result in a revised description on the registration certificate.

A vehicle will retain its donor registration mark if either the original unmodified chassis or unaltered monocoque bodyshell and two other major components are used. If a new monocoque bodyshell or chassis from a specialist kit manufacturer is used (or an altered chassis or bodyshell from an existing vehicle) together with two major components from a donor vehicle, an age related mark will be assigned. The mark will be based on the age of the donor vehicle. An ESVA, SVA or MSVA test will be required to register the vehicle.

Where there are insufficient parts from a donor vehicle or in cases where the original registration mark is unknown, an ESVA, SVA or MSVA certificate will be required to register the vehicle and a 'Q' prefix registration number will be allocated.

I'm sure that nobody would ever dream of putting the chassis number from an old chassis onto a replacement chassis, of course. Or simply cutting out the chassis number and a section of chassis from the old chassis and stitching it into the new chassis - essentially the new chassis becoming an enormous "repair panel"...

Like that 'original' Bentley a Japanese bank paid £10m for at the end of the last economic boom? ;D

[300bhp/ton]

GuinnessMK said:

I have an old 110 CSW Defender 2.5 td that is going in for it's MOT on Friday. I suspect it is going to fail, spectacularly! Rather than patch weld the chassis, I was thinking of a new replacement chassis from one of the more reputable suppliers.

Then I spotted a TD5 chassis / engine / gearbox combo in a mate's scrap yard. Chassis looks clean enough.

Question is, can I take the axles / suspension / prop and body shell off mine and fit it to this old chassis? Will I need to re-register it / SVA it?

I guess most old Defenders have had some parts replaced over the years, new engines fitted etc, but is doing it all in one hit going to be too much for the DVLA / VOSA?

Cheers

Mike

This is grey area, however the VOSA/DVLA site does state "radical", replacing parts with basically the same item doesn't count as radical in my eyes and unless you physically tell someone, nobody elses eyes will know where the parts came from.

In essence don't cause undue hassle for yourself

[cpas]

For the amount of work involved especially in dismantling the possibly rusty buts of the donor chassis, I would pay £1200 and have a new galvo chassis and be done with it - also 'officially' the only way to replace a chassis is if it's brand new - you would also get a receipt to prove this. I'm not sure where the chassis numbers are on the Landies but on a lot of older cars they are simply pop riveted on! Also bear in mind that part of the findings of the recent Nigel Gresley case strongly criticised the fact that the chassis was from a later car - which possibly didn't help him in the case being built up against him!!

[Andy Sargeant]

I agree, go with a Galvo Chassis, my choice would be Marsland as they buy a bare bones chassis from L/Rover and then dip it, this is IMHO the best way to go.

We have just got a 90" Marsland chassis for my son to build up, they make a nice job of them.

Still looking for a late TD5 bulkhead as the old one is shot.

Andy.

[skwdenyer]

Andy Sargeant said:

I agree, go with a Galvo Chassis, my choice would be Marsland as they buy a bare bones chassis from L/Rover and then dip it, this is IMHO the best way to go.

We have just got a 90" Marsland chassis for my son to build up, they make a nice job of them.

Still looking for a late TD5 bulkhead as the old one is shot.

Andy.

Am I the only one who is simply staggered that, in this day and age, a Land Rover chassis doesn't come galvanised as standard?

[Fishtigua]

skwdenyer said:

Andy Sargeant said:

I agree, go with a Galvo Chassis, my choice would be Marsland as they buy a bare bones chassis from L/Rover and then dip it, this is IMHO the best way to go.

We have just got a 90" Marsland chassis for my son to build up, they make a nice job of them.

Still looking for a late TD5 bulkhead as the old one is shot.

Andy.

Am I the only one who is simply staggered that, in this day and age, a Land Rover chassis doesn't come galvanised as standard?

You think thats bad, I was thinking of making one of stainless steel and be done with it. I work for a marine fabrication yard and it would not cost that much, maybe the bulkhead too.

Is that just getting silly?

[skwdenyer]

Fishtigua said:

skwdenyer said:

Andy Sargeant said:

I agree, go with a Galvo Chassis, my choice would be Marsland as they buy a bare bones chassis from L/Rover and then dip it, this is IMHO the best way to go.

We have just got a 90" Marsland chassis for my son to build up, they make a nice job of them.

Still looking for a late TD5 bulkhead as the old one is shot.

Andy.

Am I the only one who is simply staggered that, in this day and age, a Land Rover chassis doesn't come galvanised as standard?

You think thats bad, I was thinking of making one of stainless steel and be done with it. I work for a marine fabrication yard and it would not cost that much, maybe the bulkhead too.

Is that just getting silly?

I recall an edition of (IIRC) LRO a few years ago in which somebody in a similar situation to yourself (i.e. with access to the materials) made a bulkhead up in stainless. It was slightly different in pattern - due to available stock - so lost the fresh air vents.

As regards using stainless for the chassis, just beware of the different characteristics of stainless (especially as regards work hardening and crack initiation / propagation). If you do any serious off-roading leading to chassis flex, you could end up with a cracked or broken chassis!

[cpas]

Just to sideline slightly, I was trying to find out the other day in anyone does galvanised Mini subframes but nobody seems to do them! I wonder if there's a reason or just not enough demand?

[skwdenyer]

cpas said:

Just to sideline slightly, I was trying to find out the other day in anyone does galvanised Mini subframes but nobody seems to do them! I wonder if there's a reason or just not enough demand?

They're thick enough, so I don't imagine there would be too much heat deformation during the dipping process. I recall some years ago somebody dipping an entire Fiat 500 (original) bodyshell which, with the addition of a few drain holes, sailed through despite the very thin panels.

References here and here. As ever, still seems a lot of uncertainty over this topic, but the second link may be more useful than the first.

[al1991]

If you're that serious I'd say get a brand new, galvanised one. No more work, costs more but at the same time if you're going to keep it then the TD5 one will be in the same situation in a few years. Plus there's the complications of using a TD5 chassis on an old TD Landy.

[cpas]

skwdenyer said:

cpas said:

Just to sideline slightly, I was trying to find out the other day in anyone does galvanised Mini subframes but nobody seems to do them! I wonder if there's a reason or just not enough demand?

They're thick enough, so I don't imagine there would be too much heat deformation during the dipping process. I recall some years ago somebody dipping an entire Fiat 500 (original) bodyshell which, with the addition of a few drain holes, sailed through despite the very thin panels.

References here and here. As ever, still seems a lot of uncertainty over this topic, but the second link may be more useful than the first.

Thanks for that.
Isn't it funny how Land Rover and Mini fans are ofter the same people. Must be a love of oil leaks and rust!!!!