Porsche 944 S2 as a dedicated track day toy

[A.Wang]

Recently I spotted a Porsche 944 S2 for sale at a very sensible price, and I'm tempted to get it as my dedicated track day toy.

I currently run a Toyota Supra Mk3 N/A for track days and that has served me well - really good fun to drive, easy to control/hard to spin - perfect car on which to learn how to drive on tracks. It's a little under-powered, being a non-turbo, and I'd like to "graduate" to something with a bit more poke.

I'm trying to put together a shopping list for the parts I want to put onto the car, so far I have the following:

1. Roll cage - not sure how "full" a cage I want yet, but definitely more than a rollbar
2. Bucket seats & harnesses - cheap-ish ones will do
3. Fully adjustable coilovers
4. Drilled and grooved brake discs
5. Performance (de-cat) stainless steel exhaust system

Have I missed anything obvious from the initial list of modifications?

Also, apart from the exhaust system, I have no idea where to get any of the above parts cheaply! Do you guys know any websites I should visit?

[Nurburgsingh]

ive been there and done that. Its a fantastic idea but the one thing i would do different is buy one ready done or an ex race car as long as its accident free.
The list you have is ok but the items on it aint cheap and it will soon add up.
If you are in the midlands area then give kevin at emc in bham a call.0121 3282225

[A.Wang]

In the current climate, it'd be irresponsible to spend thousands at once on upgrading the car!

In what order would you guys put the mods? I'd probably strip the car, put some sort of a cage in and a pair of bucket seats. The suspension and brake upgrades will be done after the first couple of track days, depending on how well it goes "off the shelf".

[tertius]

I was at Brands today and spent the final few laps chasing a 944 S2 that had (I later discovered) pretty much exactly the modifications you describe. It went amazingly well. Considering I'd spent the whole day catching GT3s and the like I was seriously impressed at the performance of the 944.

So I'd say well worth consideration.

[Nurburgsingh]

I went through the following with mine

Got it PROPERLY looked at before doing...
stripped out interior
fitted cage
fitted bucket seats
fitted harnesses
braided hoses
racing fluid

Did a couple of trackdays to see how it felt... very soft on old dampers.. but still huge fun!

then...

got KW V3's
got big brakes ( new braided hoses )
took some more out of the interior
had engine rebuilt to race spec
got spare wheels and trackday tyres

and then proceeded to kick arse for the lord!



It then unfortunatly bit the dust and I now have these...






Once you pop... you cant stop!

[A.Wang]

Delicious!

If you don't mind me asking, how much did all the work cost? Was it all done by EMC? And do you have any suppliers that you'd recommend for the parts?

I'm not yet inclined to go down the big brakes route - I'd like to keep the wheels standard-sized (16" if I remember correctly?), so the rubber stays cheap. Would cross-drilled and grooved discs + decent pads do the trick?

Edited by A.Wang on Wednesday 26th November 21:39

[iguana]

A.Wang said:

Recently I spotted a Porsche 944 S2 for sale at a very sensible price, and I'm tempted to get it as my dedicated track day toy.

I currently run a Toyota Supra Mk3 N/A for track days and that has served me well - really good fun to drive, easy to control/hard to spin - perfect car on which to learn how to drive on tracks. It's a little under-powered, being a non-turbo, and I'd like to "graduate" to something with a bit more poke.

I'm trying to put together a shopping list for the parts I want to put onto the car, so far I have the following:

1. Roll cage - not sure how "full" a cage I want yet, but definitely more than a rollbar
2. Bucket seats & harnesses - cheap-ish ones will do
3. Fully adjustable coilovers
4. Drilled and grooved brake discs
5. Performance (de-cat) stainless steel exhaust system

Have I missed anything obvious from the initial list of modifications?

Also, apart from the exhaust system, I have no idea where to get any of the above parts cheaply! Do you guys know any websites I should visit?

Good car the S2, the mods above will put it in 968 clubsport league for a tiny fraction of the cost.

Only thing I'd say is have a butchers at e36 M3s, similar purchace price a lot more grunt, similar running costs, very similar weight when stripped & more bits about, although a 944Turbo will counter all that & easy to get a lot more power from.

PS dont get aftermarket drilled discs unless you really want then to crack, (Porsche don't drill their discs they are cast)


Stopping & handling usually 1st, but 944 seats are horrible on track & if you are over midget height head room is very tight with the stcok chairs & a helmet on & near impossibel for the tall, so buckets & harnesses recomended, would do suspension (most likely I'd go for KW or Konis)& brakes, either big red brake set up, or to start just pagids prob yellows on stock discs (ebc yellow/red may cope if on a budget) but pagids generally considered the daddy, but many rate perfomance friction- the new SRF brake fluid & braided lines, backing plates removed & cooling ducts put in place, then cage

[A.Wang]

iguana - good point about the E36 M3, I was looking for one until I found that they're either badly abused by chavs (hence the low prices), or absurdly expensive for their age and condition! Butchering one would cost far too much once I've fixed what previous owners have broken...

I'm 5"7ish, so headroom isn't a problem (might be for my guests though), but I'd like to have a cage, proper seats and harnesses in place before I chuck it around tracks.

Edited by A.Wang on Thursday 27th November 07:46

[jackal]

i have 993TT brakes, discs, pads, adapters and KW var3 for sale if you need it

[iguana]

A.Wang said:

iguana - good point about the E36 M3, I was looking for one until I found that they're either badly abused by chavs (hence the low prices), or absurdly expensive for their age and condition! Butchering

No probs, have a massive soft spot for 944s fan- had 5 of the buggers! but I just rate e36s higher is all, tho my nicely fettled Turbo was a better car in a fair few aspects.

But Re M3s im tad biased= mine-
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/802491.htm

Torn about selling, a near my ideal M3 is up for sale but would have to sell mine to fund... is a tough one, given the state of the market may end up just keeping mine & doing the track bits.

If you go the s2 route, getting stuff like jackal is selling would be a far far cheaper way to do it than buying new.

Not about jackals stuff, but in general- have to be v careful with 2nd hand shocks, tracking kills shocks v quickly from the heat, so often worth a refurb before fitting, cheap on some types, expensive or not posible on others.

Edited by iguana on Wednesday 26th November 22:25

[A.Wang]

From the little homework I've done, my choices for coilovers seem to be somewhat limited...either KW Variant 3, or Koni. Both are rather expensive (for example, £1350 for KW Var3 is the cheapest I have found) - are there any lesser-known brands that I should also consider?

Also, would a fully adjustable system be overkill for a track day toy? I'd want something better than just up-rated shocks and lowering springs - that set-up is fine on my Supra, but I think it's still too soft on track.

[Nurburgsingh]

I also forgot the 968 M030 ARB's

Yes EMC did all the work on all of the cars, the 968 was built from bare shell by them.

Other options for your coilovers are Leda and GAZ. My 924 has the GAZ single adjustable coilovers and the 968 has a set of GAZ remote resevoir double adjustable on it.

Your brake option would be fine, just change the fuid and some braided hoses.. the normal s" brakes are pretty good when they are all fresh and working properly.
My big brakes were the hens teeth M030 calipers which fit under the 16's (just) but be careful with sticking to 16" for tyre choice... there isnt that much out there.
I was running 8" rims all round which meant having 245/45 16's all round but it meant that I had to buy Michelin Pilot sport Cup tyres for track use. and it was even harder to try and get road tyres!
The 17" tyre market is better catered for. Falkens for road and wet track toyo888's for dry track.

Where to get stuff...

Cage - EMC are the Saftey Devices 944/968 supplier they have weld in and bolt ins avaialble
GAZ - again EMC have their own spec coilovers from GAZ
KW's - either Jackel or Stu at K300.co.uk
ARB's - Just call any OPC and they'll sort them out for you.
Brake pads and discs etc - Speak to Stu at K300 again
Seats - try and bag a bargain at the Autosport show
Harnesses - Autosportshow as well

The costs.. well now that is the question... I think by the time I'd finished with the 944 I could have bought myself a very nice 964 road car. But I did have an engine rebuild the m030 brakes and I did also replace the gearbox with an LSD fitted Turbo box so mine was a pricey car....
And I didnt do a single thing myself... cos I'm crap with a spanner.

Edited by Nurburgsingh on Thursday 27th November 09:15

[jackal]

A.Wang said:

From the little homework I've done, my choices for coilovers seem to be somewhat limited...either KW Variant 3, or Koni. Both are rather expensive (for example, £1350 for KW Var3 is the cheapest I have found) - are there any lesser-known brands that I should also consider?

Also, would a fully adjustable system be overkill for a track day toy? I'd want something better than just up-rated shocks and lowering springs - that set-up is fine on my Supra, but I think it's still too soft on track.

EMC have good success with Gaz I believe and they are cheaper so maybe have a word with them
the KW are amazing though

I don't think there is a simpler 'uprated' damper for the track
the koni sports are for road use

[Nurburgsingh]

Forgot to mention on the E36 M3 issue...

I'm fortunate enough to have raced one in the VLN and there is no question that a 286BHP 3Ltr M3 thats been properly sorted would show the 944 and the 968 a clean pair of heels. even a standard 4door road car is staggeringly fast.

I dont have one beacuse they aren't "special" enough if that makes sense? call it badge snobbery or whatever you like. And they take a lot of work to get down to a decent weight...

[A.Wang]

Cool - looks like EMC will be getting a call from me then!

Now that GAZ has been mentioned, the name rings a bell - if they're cheaper than KW Var3, are they as good/adjustable, or is this a case of getting what I paid for?

I'll be busy when the Autosport show is on - I guess my other option would be to go to one of the kit car shows in the spring and see if I can find bargains there!

With regard to wheels - what offset etc. would I need for finding some 17" wheels that'd fit the 944? Sticking with the stock 16" sounds like false economy in the long run...I wouldn't want to burn up Michelin Pilot Sport Cup rubber at 3/4 track days per set!

Also, for the roll cage - what is the accepted wisdom on how extensive the cage should be for track days? I'm considering getting something more than the half-cage/roll bar I currently have in the Supra, but not a rally style cage with side-impact bars so high that I'll need to be an accomplished gymnast to get in and out of the car!

[legaleagleboy]

here is a 944 ready to race or as a trackday car -- in the current climate a sensible offer should get it!

http://pistonheads.com/sales/801288.htm

Edited by legaleagleboy on Thursday 27th November 11:25

[Nurburgsingh]

The safety devices bolt in cage for a 944 is quiet easy to negotiate loojs a bit like this... but the newer ones are a slightly different design...



The weld in one has double side impacts.

As for how much of a cage you want.... its the one thing in a car where less is most definatly NOT more.

[A.Wang]

legaleagleboy said:

here is a 944 ready to race or as a trackday car -- in the current climate a sensible offer should get it!

http://pistonheads.com/sales/801288.htm

Thanks for spotting that for me! It's a lot more than I am willing/able to spend on my track day toy though, and I doubt that'd still be road-legal - a requirement for me as I have nothing to tow a race car to track days (see my profile garage)!

[A.Wang]

Nurburgsingh said:

The safety devices bolt in cage for a 944 is quiet easy to negotiate loojs a bit like this... but the newer ones are a slightly different design...

The weld in one has double side impacts.

As for how much of a cage you want.... its the one thing in a car where less is most definatly NOT more.

That looks exactly like what I'm after - I think having double/triangulated side impact bars is a bit OTT unless I'm racing and there are clear and present risks of side impacts at every corner!

Can someone explain the virtues of weld-in cages as opposed to bolt-in ones? I understand it has something to do with whether you intend to return the car to a road-going, comfort-focused state (if so, get a bolt-in cage), and I presume weld-in ones actually contribute to the structural strength of the car (less so with a bolt-in one)?

[jackal]

m030 arbs are about 260 quid all in with all the bushes from OPC exeter

Edited by jackal on Thursday 27th November 12:10