Turbo vs SC

[S600VXR]

With all the chat about NA vs SC I thought Id ask peoples views on turbo conversions vs SC ones.
I know Harrys car has grabed the headlines for dyno power but thats an on going project I understand, whats the best for real world use with reasonable reliability and V. Max use? Talking about power in the 700rwhp regions.

[crisisjez]

Are there any 700rwhp SC cars out there?
Not from Wortec or Maggie, the old style eaton just won`t supply the pressure for it without mega heat issues, even if the heads are well trick.
Maybe from Vortec, but you might as well run a turbo.
Harryoz is running 700+rwhp and that`s a big install.
The new batch of blowers will be interesting, but drivetrain problems will be a real headache given the power delivery from a PDblower. TBO you already have the best all rounder (even if it is a touch slow over the mile and a half)

[S600VXR]

Git - aint you got a plane to fly!

[crisisjez]

Nope, just chimneys to knock down......

[MadMaxHSV]

Kenne Bell/Whipple twin screw anyone?

Interesting reading...
http://ls1tech.com/forums/pontiac-gto-2004-2006/99...

[Harryoz]

S600VXR said:

With all the chat about NA vs SC I thought Id ask peoples views on turbo conversions vs SC ones.
I know Harrys car has grabed the headlines for dyno power but thats an on going project I understand, whats the best for real world use with reasonable reliability and V. Max use? Talking about power in the 700rwhp regions.

"on going" project - nope, all finished bar fitting the new diff and drive shafts, and a bit of tidy up. I'd also add that its very driveable day to day (its the car I use most often) and reliability issues were limited to the front belts coming off (but that hasnt been an issue for months since we replaced the belt tensioner).

The turbo install works really well but its a cost issue. I believe the SC installs are more cost effective.

[S600VXR]

I thought you were looking at bigger IC Harry due to intake temp issues on high boost? As far as cost - anything with 700rwhp will be expensive TBH. Thought a thread on this topic would be more interesting than the NA vs SC.

[global-i]

MadMaxHSV said:

Kenne Bell/Whipple twin screw anyone?

Interesting reading...
[url]http://ls1tech.com/forums/pontiac-gto[/url]

I have been watching this thread for a while now, it looks interesting if it comes off.

[ringram]

Turbo's are way more efficient and largely get rid of the 100+ BHP paracytic loss of the SC on boost. Also their efficiency map is better.
I think Roger is doing a twin turbo at the moment on a VXR that should be near 480rwhp Id have thought.

Either way 700rwhp is going to need a strong base engine, stock engines need not apply. Soon more will join the built engine club Even if they do bolt a hair dryer on top or at the exhaust

[Harryoz]

S600VXR said:

I thought you were looking at bigger IC Harry due to intake temp issues on high boost? As far as cost - anything with 700rwhp will be expensive TBH. Thought a thread on this topic would be more interesting than the NA vs SC.

High temps only start to occur on sustained high speed runs, so a larger IC would be helpful, yes. So may be a limiting factor for vmax runs. Not sure yet, as havent pushed the speed limit yet.

In the meantime, day to day it isnt an issue as the map adjusts when it detect higher temps, which generally it doesnt.

[TTLS1]

harry, perhaps a NOS IC spray bar would be a little more practical as it will cool more efficiently at high and prolonged boost periods and will save the hastle of trying to jig another larger cooler up front.
just a thought.

[S600VXR]

Or water injection...? Bikes use it to reduce heat and they run up to 50psi!!

[crisisjez]

global-i said:

MadMaxHSV said:

Kenne Bell/Whipple twin screw anyone?

Interesting reading...
[url]http://ls1tech.com/forums/pontiac-gto[/url]

I have been watching this thread for a while now, it looks interesting if it comes off.

Not a KB proper,just internals. Will need to be proven I`m thinking.
I`d guess a year for a no risk installation over here.

Edited by crisisjez on Thursday 27th November 12:50

[anonymous-user]

crisisjez said:

Are there any 700rwhp SC cars out there?
Not from Wortec or Maggie, the old style eaton just won`t supply the pressure for it without mega heat issues, even if the heads are well trick.

This one did the business: www.rapid-gb.co.uk/vehicle_details.php?vehicle=700bhp

..or this one: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=N4l642T

We shall see, I'm still shooting for at least 600rwhp. All built now, it goes on the dyno next week for tuning

Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 27th November 19:28

[crisisjez]

wormus said:

crisisjez said:

Are there any 700rwhp SC cars out there?
Not from Wortec or Maggie, the old style eaton just won`t supply the pressure for it without mega heat issues, even if the heads are well trick.

This one did the business: www.rapid-gb.co.uk/vehicle_details.php?vehicle=700bhp

..or this one: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=N4l642T

We shall see, I'm still shooting for at least 600rwhp. All built now, it goes on the dyno next week for tuning

Edited by wormus on Thursday 27th November 19:28

K... Can`t comment on the rapid, but a 383 with a 3.3PD blower at 15psi is BIG (a 122 won`t get close, hope you get close to your target HP but I have my doubts, especially on the dyno)
The ENGINE DYNO will be fly.................

[anonymous-user]

I guess we'll see. Mine was specifically built from the block upwards (383ci) with 600 rwhp in mind and Mark seems confident based on other motors he's built.

If you believe what you read, there are plenty of engines out there making 600+ rwhp using the 122. I know you've suffered with high intake temps but try adding a decent set of heads & cam to yours and see what difference it makes. I guess your problem is not with your blower.

Sort of relevant but you might find this interesting:

www.ls1tech.com/forums/forced-induction/965007-mtis-prototype-magnacharger-tvs-vette.html

Also, if my current blower doesn't deliver the next step will be the MP2300.

Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 27th November 21:45

[ringram]

wormus said:

try adding a decent set of heads & cam to yours and see what difference it makes.

[crisisjez]

wormus said:

I guess we'll see. Mine was specifically built from the block upwards (383ci) with 600 rwhp in mind and Mark seems confident based on other motors he's built.

If you believe what you read, there are plenty of engines out there making 600+ rwhp using the 122. I know you've suffered with high intake temps but try adding a decent set of heads & cam to yours and see what difference it makes. I guess your problem is not with your blower.

Sort of relevant but you might find this interesting:

www.ls1tech.com/forums/forced-induction/965007-mtis-prototype-magnacharger-tvs-vette.html

Also, if my current blower doesn't deliver the next step will be the MP2300.

Edited by wormus on Thursday 27th November 21:45

I`d actually like to be wrong mate as you have put a lot into your build, but I just can`t see a 122 producing enough air mass at a high enough pressure to give you at least 750fwhp in order to see 600rwhp.
I`m sure the engine will cope with far more, its just the blower bit that gives me doubt.
That link was for a TVS which is a completely different animal BTW, on the Vette its doing 630ish fwhp @6psi so its well capable of producing the goods.
Hurry up and get your beasty on the road......

Edited by crisisjez on Thursday 27th November 22:08

[anonymous-user]

Believe me, I'm trying to get it back! Sorry, I wasn't referring to the Corvette bit but page 2 where there's a bun fight over the Kenne Bell twin screw vs the Roots/TVS. Interesting for anyone thinking of buying either.

I was originally going to get a TVS but it worked out too expensive with the rest of the build so I decided to keep the 122. If it's not up to the job I'll swap it later but I *think* it will be fine for what I want.

Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 27th November 22:17

[crisisjez]

I`d go Kenne Bell tomorrow, but I dont want to cut a hole in the bonnet.

So I`m looking at my options too

Edited by crisisjez on Thursday 27th November 22:32