S2 Exige water ingress
Discussion
Just picked up my new (to me) car - prepare for forum spamming as I ask a million questions... 
(yes, I have done a search here and on SELOC)
One of the main reasons I went for the Exige is because I dislike soft-top cars, it will be living outside all year round (no garage) and given that I could just about weatherproof my old VXT, the new fixed-roof Exige should be fine, no? Paul @ Lipscomb confirmed that S2 Exiges don't leak.
Of course today was particularly foul weather, but I've just driven back from Maidstone somewhat disappointed that the car is very wet inside, damp carpets and tons of water on the sills, just like my VXT when the passenger glass dropped off the rails once.
What makes a huge difference is the heating system in the S2 Exige - it not only works, but blows hot air like my V8 without the air con on, and the aircon on the Exige works too. Wow.
Driving back, I was expecting a bit of a handful due to A048Rs, very cold road and loads of standing water. Whilst I was happy sliding the VXT about (on 888s, which warm up quicker than A048Rs IM (limited) E) in the rain, it *really* didn't like standing water - aquaplane city and you're just a passenger... the Exige resisted this significantly better than the VXT (downforce, perhaps?) and the car was safe and secure both on the motorway (M20 / M25) and bombing (relatively) down the A25. Lack of rear visibility is going to take time to get used to though - with misted up side windows there's no chance of using the mirrors, making motorway overtakes a bit of a test of blind faith, frankly.
So... anyone here with an S2 Exige without a garage? Is dampness inside to be expected? Interestingly the VXT leaked into the hardtop and the headlining above the windows got saturated and dripped onto the tub - the Exige has bone-dry roof headlining but the carpets and tub underneath the sills are wet.
I'm really hoping the rest of the weekend is dry.....
(yes, I have done a search here and on SELOC)One of the main reasons I went for the Exige is because I dislike soft-top cars, it will be living outside all year round (no garage) and given that I could just about weatherproof my old VXT, the new fixed-roof Exige should be fine, no? Paul @ Lipscomb confirmed that S2 Exiges don't leak.
Of course today was particularly foul weather, but I've just driven back from Maidstone somewhat disappointed that the car is very wet inside, damp carpets and tons of water on the sills, just like my VXT when the passenger glass dropped off the rails once.
What makes a huge difference is the heating system in the S2 Exige - it not only works, but blows hot air like my V8 without the air con on, and the aircon on the Exige works too. Wow.
Driving back, I was expecting a bit of a handful due to A048Rs, very cold road and loads of standing water. Whilst I was happy sliding the VXT about (on 888s, which warm up quicker than A048Rs IM (limited) E) in the rain, it *really* didn't like standing water - aquaplane city and you're just a passenger... the Exige resisted this significantly better than the VXT (downforce, perhaps?) and the car was safe and secure both on the motorway (M20 / M25) and bombing (relatively) down the A25. Lack of rear visibility is going to take time to get used to though - with misted up side windows there's no chance of using the mirrors, making motorway overtakes a bit of a test of blind faith, frankly.
So... anyone here with an S2 Exige without a garage? Is dampness inside to be expected? Interestingly the VXT leaked into the hardtop and the headlining above the windows got saturated and dripped onto the tub - the Exige has bone-dry roof headlining but the carpets and tub underneath the sills are wet.
I'm really hoping the rest of the weekend is dry.....
F.C. said:
I've had my S2 Exige since September and I haven't put in the garage yet.
I have had a mystery drip on the passenger side sill that appears to come from behind the door card.
Other than that it is as dry as a bone.
F.C.
Snap - looks like mine is a little bit more severe though. What is it with passenger doors at Lotus? The VXT passenger door leaked as well, but the drivers side was fine (other than the leak through the hardtop).I have had a mystery drip on the passenger side sill that appears to come from behind the door card.
Other than that it is as dry as a bone.
F.C.
I know I'll forgive it anything once I demist the bugger since whereas I couldn't stand the extremely loud S1 I had, I loved the VXT (for all its faults) and the Exige is most certainly better than the VXT. Got to sort all leaks though - not only do they piss me off but the Exige has full carpets (WTF) and they'll end up like manky TVR carpets if they're left sodden all winter (that said, my TVR never leaked, I think I had a good-un)...
2 thoughts...
1 - the Exige doesn't generate enough downforce to make any real difference to road driving. So I doubt the feeling of surefootedness is due to that.
2 - the VXT drops from hardtop were probably condensation. My S2 Elise used to suffer from it with the HT on, and all the Elises I've had suffered it with softops on. Potentially this is what you're getting in the Exige for the 'drips', unless you can find an ingress spot around the windows.
For the footwell moisture it's more likely a leak coming in through the front of the car, from the tub or behind the dash via the heater/aircon system or gaps in the front bulkhead somehow.
If it's under warantee, take it back and ask them to look it all over. Dampness one might expect, if it's soaking, that's another matter.
1 - the Exige doesn't generate enough downforce to make any real difference to road driving. So I doubt the feeling of surefootedness is due to that.
2 - the VXT drops from hardtop were probably condensation. My S2 Elise used to suffer from it with the HT on, and all the Elises I've had suffered it with softops on. Potentially this is what you're getting in the Exige for the 'drips', unless you can find an ingress spot around the windows.
For the footwell moisture it's more likely a leak coming in through the front of the car, from the tub or behind the dash via the heater/aircon system or gaps in the front bulkhead somehow.
If it's under warantee, take it back and ask them to look it all over. Dampness one might expect, if it's soaking, that's another matter.
Ta for the responses - sounds like Paul was right and an Exige should NOT leak, so mine probably just needs fiddling with, as per the usual Lotus way.
It's a 2006 car but has done the grand total of 5170 miles. WTF. I'm presuming it lived a life as a garage queen and never saw rain, therefore any loose trim / niggles haven't been fixed. I've got a full year Lotus warranty so will get it attended to. I'm blown away by how much the basic package has improved (the hardcore will say it's gone soft, especially due to the weight which is noticeably VXT plus a few kilos here and there, just as I think 997 Porsches are soft, big and heavy compared to my favourites, 993s). The ventilation system is like a proper car. No disrespect, but the S1 ventilation was an afterthought and using one year-round often means scraping ice off the inside of the windscreen which is no good if you need to get to the railway station in the morning without getting out of bed at 3:30 am... The VXT was better but still had a few eyeball vents in the top of the dash and nothing else, and a lame heater. The Exige S2 is just like a real, modern car - the heater and aircon is better than my MG ZT V8 (well, turn off the cold air on the V8 on a summer's day and V8 heat soak will roast you, but that's not intentional...)
And the great thing is that the steering is still pin-sharp, yes it's heavier than an S1 but it's still a light car. I haven't pushed it properly hard yet and in this weather I'll keep it smooth until I find somewhere where I can mess about and not damage the car. But I feel the handling will be better than the VXT and I loved that. Even in today's admittedly tame run down the A25 from the motorway, it feels chuckable in the same way the VXT did, and the S1 Elise, interestingly, didn't. The S1 felt like once you breached the limits (momentum oversteer or lift-off past the limits) then you were a passenger unless you were lightning quick. The VXT and Exige feel adjustable, keep your foot in and balance on the throttle. A lot of that could be tyres - the S1 was 8-odd years ago and ran on Pirelli P zeros IIRC, which don't get a good write up on the forums, whereas the VXT had 888s and the Exige has A048Rs.
I have already tried to reverse in 6th (VXT habit, different gearbox layout) and it's quite clear that I've clicked with the car as if I was still driving a VXT. Since the handling is definitely slightly different, I think I ought to go on a Lotus training day or a Walshy day (is North Weald still available - I heard they were planning to close it) to ensure I don't try to drive the Exige hard like I drove the VXT hard, since the weight distribution is different as is the geometry. The VXT needed trail braking to get the best turn-in, I could come a cropper doing this in the Exige. It just feels so familiar!!!
Given that Lotus have got so much else on the car so damn right (and brand new these cars are hardly cheap), little leaks through the door cards aren't that clever - especially since there are electric windows in there...
Unless it turns out to be a lemon (watching the coolant temperature like a hawk (old habit) and it's between 85 and 87) then I can see myself keeping this car a LONG time. I love it. Just want the bloody rain to stop.
Then maybe if I turn up at the Woodman randomly one weekend and you lot are there (Tim) then perhaps I'll be allowed to park next to you without getting sneered at
It's a 2006 car but has done the grand total of 5170 miles. WTF. I'm presuming it lived a life as a garage queen and never saw rain, therefore any loose trim / niggles haven't been fixed. I've got a full year Lotus warranty so will get it attended to. I'm blown away by how much the basic package has improved (the hardcore will say it's gone soft, especially due to the weight which is noticeably VXT plus a few kilos here and there, just as I think 997 Porsches are soft, big and heavy compared to my favourites, 993s). The ventilation system is like a proper car. No disrespect, but the S1 ventilation was an afterthought and using one year-round often means scraping ice off the inside of the windscreen which is no good if you need to get to the railway station in the morning without getting out of bed at 3:30 am... The VXT was better but still had a few eyeball vents in the top of the dash and nothing else, and a lame heater. The Exige S2 is just like a real, modern car - the heater and aircon is better than my MG ZT V8 (well, turn off the cold air on the V8 on a summer's day and V8 heat soak will roast you, but that's not intentional...)
And the great thing is that the steering is still pin-sharp, yes it's heavier than an S1 but it's still a light car. I haven't pushed it properly hard yet and in this weather I'll keep it smooth until I find somewhere where I can mess about and not damage the car. But I feel the handling will be better than the VXT and I loved that. Even in today's admittedly tame run down the A25 from the motorway, it feels chuckable in the same way the VXT did, and the S1 Elise, interestingly, didn't. The S1 felt like once you breached the limits (momentum oversteer or lift-off past the limits) then you were a passenger unless you were lightning quick. The VXT and Exige feel adjustable, keep your foot in and balance on the throttle. A lot of that could be tyres - the S1 was 8-odd years ago and ran on Pirelli P zeros IIRC, which don't get a good write up on the forums, whereas the VXT had 888s and the Exige has A048Rs.
I have already tried to reverse in 6th (VXT habit, different gearbox layout) and it's quite clear that I've clicked with the car as if I was still driving a VXT. Since the handling is definitely slightly different, I think I ought to go on a Lotus training day or a Walshy day (is North Weald still available - I heard they were planning to close it) to ensure I don't try to drive the Exige hard like I drove the VXT hard, since the weight distribution is different as is the geometry. The VXT needed trail braking to get the best turn-in, I could come a cropper doing this in the Exige. It just feels so familiar!!!
Given that Lotus have got so much else on the car so damn right (and brand new these cars are hardly cheap), little leaks through the door cards aren't that clever - especially since there are electric windows in there...
Unless it turns out to be a lemon (watching the coolant temperature like a hawk (old habit) and it's between 85 and 87) then I can see myself keeping this car a LONG time. I love it. Just want the bloody rain to stop.
Then maybe if I turn up at the Woodman randomly one weekend and you lot are there (Tim) then perhaps I'll be allowed to park next to you without getting sneered at
When I first got mine 12 months ago, any rain or after washing, my boot was full of water and the headlining got soaking wet.
Re: the roof, it simply took removal, a bit of silicone grease all round the rubbers and pop it back on - never leaked since. The boot was a different matter and required the intervention of a bathroom mastic sealant gun!
I know you shouldn't have to, but it is quite satisfying when you resolve one of these silly little niggles!
Re: the roof, it simply took removal, a bit of silicone grease all round the rubbers and pop it back on - never leaked since. The boot was a different matter and required the intervention of a bathroom mastic sealant gun!
I know you shouldn't have to, but it is quite satisfying when you resolve one of these silly little niggles!
2 days in and a couple of things have become evident. Firstly, water ingress is NOT a problem - the reason for the soaking carpets was that when I picked it up, Paul wasn't there and one of his colleagues from the Volvo part of the dealership handed it over - opening both doors resulted in all the water on the hardtop pouring into the car. Having done this again myself on Sat morning, doh, realised where the water was coming from. Wiping the water off the roof before opening the doors prevents the flood into the cabin - hey ho, dry carpets. Excellent.
(in fairness this is a schoolboy error on my part - the VXT had exactly the same problem and I kept a water rubber blade thingy in the car for exactly that purpose. Open the door, leave 10 seconds and the water suddenly pours into the car via the sills... so open the door, whip out the water blade, close the door, wipe all water off the roof onto the windscreen and only *then* open the door again. Works a treat
)
Secondly, the aircon and heater system works brilliantly to demist the car. And it's warm within a couple of minutes. Compare that to the 10-15 minutes the VXT took to warm up sufficiently for its lame heater to demist (or defrost in worst cases) the windscreen.
Lastly, Tim's right - the surefootedness is due to the geometry, downforce is only an issue over 100 mph... the car slides about a bit under power until the tyres are warm, but it's got a lot less torque than the VXT so it's not as trigger happy at low revs. Very comfortable to drive in the wet so long as you avoid standing water.
The next test really is full-on storms - heavy rain with extreme winds. I managed to waterproof the VXT such that it'd only let in water when the wind was strong enough to blow the rain past the seals. If the Exige passes that test, then it's going to be the only car I ever want
(in fairness this is a schoolboy error on my part - the VXT had exactly the same problem and I kept a water rubber blade thingy in the car for exactly that purpose. Open the door, leave 10 seconds and the water suddenly pours into the car via the sills... so open the door, whip out the water blade, close the door, wipe all water off the roof onto the windscreen and only *then* open the door again. Works a treat
)Secondly, the aircon and heater system works brilliantly to demist the car. And it's warm within a couple of minutes. Compare that to the 10-15 minutes the VXT took to warm up sufficiently for its lame heater to demist (or defrost in worst cases) the windscreen.
Lastly, Tim's right - the surefootedness is due to the geometry, downforce is only an issue over 100 mph... the car slides about a bit under power until the tyres are warm, but it's got a lot less torque than the VXT so it's not as trigger happy at low revs. Very comfortable to drive in the wet so long as you avoid standing water.
The next test really is full-on storms - heavy rain with extreme winds. I managed to waterproof the VXT such that it'd only let in water when the wind was strong enough to blow the rain past the seals. If the Exige passes that test, then it's going to be the only car I ever want
I picked mine up in monsoon type conditions. I drove home through REALLY big puddles (drive on the wrong side of the road type puddles).
I spent the first quarter of the journey petrified I was going to damage my three year old daughter/shiny 'new' car/myself on the 'lethal' tyres in a car with a very short wheelbase.
Once I worked out it was really no worse than any other car (as long as you take it easy on standing water) me and my daugther had a fantastic drive home.
Since then we have been out a few times in wet miserable windy conditions (including a trip to B&Q!) and have really enjoyed it.
In fact I haven't actually driven in the dry yet.
It has been standing outside for the last month in all weather, hasn't leaked at all, started on the button and using the aircon to demist it works fine. I am really surprised how practical it has proved so far.
I spent the first quarter of the journey petrified I was going to damage my three year old daughter/shiny 'new' car/myself on the 'lethal' tyres in a car with a very short wheelbase.
Once I worked out it was really no worse than any other car (as long as you take it easy on standing water) me and my daugther had a fantastic drive home.
Since then we have been out a few times in wet miserable windy conditions (including a trip to B&Q!) and have really enjoyed it.
In fact I haven't actually driven in the dry yet.
It has been standing outside for the last month in all weather, hasn't leaked at all, started on the button and using the aircon to demist it works fine. I am really surprised how practical it has proved so far.
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