RE: November Rain
Thursday 4th December 2008
Focus remains year's best seller so farLatest UK sales figures show another big slump in demand for new cars, with November registrations down by 36.8 percent against the same month in 2007.
November Rain
The gloom deepens for new car sales
Focus remains year's best seller so far
The latest numbers mean year to date sales volumes are down 10.7% says the Society of Motor Manufacturer and Traders, which continues to call for swift government intervention to shore up access to credit for both consumers and the industry.
The rate by which sales are declining has risen steadily over the past seven months, and the November fall was effectively the steepest since June 1980. Over the last three months, sales have fallen by 24% and the SMMT now predicts a total annual sales figure of 2.1m units.
Unsurprisingly, the small car sector is weathering the decline better than most, says the SMMT, while diesel market penetration rose to an all time record of 47% in November.
The Ford Fiesta pipped the Ford Focus to number one spot for the month, although the Focus remains the year’s best seller to date.
Discussion
[sarcastic rant mode on]
the only hope to kick start it is for the banks to lend again, and stop being so conservative
i know of so many people now affected through being made unemployed as the companies they work for go to administrators.
how long till car manufacturers start asking the government for a bail out, oh that's right we don't ahve big UK car manufacturers anymore.
[rant over - sorry, better out than in]
the only hope to kick start it is for the banks to lend again, and stop being so conservative
i know of so many people now affected through being made unemployed as the companies they work for go to administrators.
how long till car manufacturers start asking the government for a bail out, oh that's right we don't ahve big UK car manufacturers anymore.
[rant over - sorry, better out than in]
Why should the government be stepping in here?
At the moment people actually seem to be thinking 'Can I afford this?' rather than 'Oh well another 10/20 grand on the mortgage/loan can't hurt'.
And with the kind of money these manufactures were making in the good old days when people were buying new cars cos they're bored (including me!) I'm sure that with good business plans they should be able to make it through a bad spell before people start throwing money at them again.
Maybe this is the kick up the ar$e that people/businesses/the government need to see what can happen when money gets a bit tight. I seriously doubt it.
At the moment people actually seem to be thinking 'Can I afford this?' rather than 'Oh well another 10/20 grand on the mortgage/loan can't hurt'.
And with the kind of money these manufactures were making in the good old days when people were buying new cars cos they're bored (including me!) I'm sure that with good business plans they should be able to make it through a bad spell before people start throwing money at them again.
Maybe this is the kick up the ar$e that people/businesses/the government need to see what can happen when money gets a bit tight. I seriously doubt it.
SleeperCell said:
LCR270 said:
how long till car manufacturers start asking the government for a bail out
I thought Jaguar already had?Steve_F said:
At the moment people actually seem to be thinking 'Can I afford this?' rather than 'Oh well another 10/20 grand on the mortgage/loan can't hurt'.
Steve hits the nail on the head. In my opinion its a good thing too. Buy what you can afford. If you cant afford it buy something you can afford, or god forbid second hand! Cars last 15yrs ~ 150k miles before they become too costly to use regularly, so you dont actually need a new one every 2 yrs. The car companies are going to have to get used to the new economy pretty quick and scale back their production/workforce/shareholder expectations and profit expectations.
58, 09 and 59 plates will become the new H reg. i.e. In 5-10 yrs time you wont see many of them
uggies said:
so people will have to drive what they can actually afford and get their priorities straight......lifes a real bugger isn't it
Too bloody true. So many people have spent the last 5 or so years thinking they'll just put a bit more onto the mortgage (cos the house price will never go down will it 
) and bought the latest model when there's nothing wrong with the one they hadSMMT said:
Society of Motor Manufacturer and Traders, which continues to call for swift government intervention to shore up access to credit for both consumers and the industry.
Ah the poor souls. Shouldn't have been so quick to try and make massive margins whilst the sun was shining then should you, and encourage this sort of s
t.On the one hand, I am so glad that this recession is hitting people quite badly, they might realise that there's more to life than the latest gadget/outfit etc.
I am one of those people hit by redundancy, but due to sensible planning, it won't make that much difference to our lifestyle. Just need to wait another year before we go on holiday instead of every year.
Eh, I can get credit to buy a car, the problem is wanting to. I don't think the government need to intervene to get me cheaper credit... I'm not sure on the credit needed by the car co's though...
Who wants to risk a loan on a NEW car when the economy is going to crap?
Maybe if discounts were big enough, then fine, but even if interest rates were 0% the bulk of the problem is affording the crippling depreciation at a time when your job security and home are on the line!
Dave
Who wants to risk a loan on a NEW car when the economy is going to crap?
Maybe if discounts were big enough, then fine, but even if interest rates were 0% the bulk of the problem is affording the crippling depreciation at a time when your job security and home are on the line!
Dave
Edited by Mr Whippy on Thursday 4th December 14:53
The motor trade has just bombed basically, I'm a salesman for Vauxhall, but not for much longer, handed my notice in on Monday. All we seem to do is open up the cars in the morning and then sit at our desks until we lock up, hasnt taken me long to realise this is just the start of the problems so I'm going back into Defence Support, nobody can live on an £8,000 basic salary and maybe 5 deals a month. Also my Dad is a Transporter driver and he is now doing 3 day weeks due to lack of work, he isnt getting paid for being at home and as my Mum only works part time, they are finding it very hard to pay their mortgage and provide for my teenage brother & sister. Now imagine this was yourself? Still against the Govt. stepping in and helping the motor trade?
But what can the government do?
It seems the good times are well and truly over... what was the norm for the last few years wasn't sustainable, thats the whole point we are in a crash now, because we over-spent on credit by and large.
However you look at it, the car industry will have to contract a little as the market simply isn't there to sustain the levels of the last few years...
I guess all the government can do is help those who lose their jobs to find new work and support them financially.
What the car industry needs is people buying cars. People don't want them. Even if they got 0% credit over 5 years and a 10% reduction they still don't want them... they will stick with what they have and save money... getting credit again is just digging ourselves back into the hole!
Dave
It seems the good times are well and truly over... what was the norm for the last few years wasn't sustainable, thats the whole point we are in a crash now, because we over-spent on credit by and large.
However you look at it, the car industry will have to contract a little as the market simply isn't there to sustain the levels of the last few years...
I guess all the government can do is help those who lose their jobs to find new work and support them financially.
What the car industry needs is people buying cars. People don't want them. Even if they got 0% credit over 5 years and a 10% reduction they still don't want them... they will stick with what they have and save money... getting credit again is just digging ourselves back into the hole!
Dave
Luke85 said:
The motor trade has just bombed basically, I'm a salesman for Vauxhall, but not for much longer, handed my notice in on Monday. All we seem to do is open up the cars in the morning and then sit at our desks until we lock up, hasnt taken me long to realise this is just the start of the problems so I'm going back into Defence Support, nobody can live on an £8,000 basic salary and maybe 5 deals a month. Also my Dad is a Transporter driver and he is now doing 3 day weeks due to lack of work, he isnt getting paid for being at home and as my Mum only works part time, they are finding it very hard to pay their mortgage and provide for my teenage brother & sister. Now imagine this was yourself? Still against the Govt. stepping in and helping the motor trade?
By convincing people to buy new cars they can cannot afford and don't need?Maybe too many cars were being made to start with, airfield/car parks are not a new phenomenon. All manufacturers are making radical cuts now when a gentle scale back months ago would have been better. (yes this is hindsight but the current situation has been predicted for a while)
The recession is going to be painful for many but handouts to unprepared companies with out of date business models is not the answer.
I have been in the motor trade for over 10 years now and have to say that I have never seen it so quiet. This is definately a turning point for the trade and things are going to have to change. The only remedy I see is for the finance companies and banks to lower their underwriting acceptance score. If they dont then there are going to be so many people with defaults registered against them that no one will pass credit and allot less cars/vans will be sold. Last month we had our record number of declines ever. I think its time to get out of the trade !!!!
The car makers need to take a lot of the blame here. They've been taking the pi$$ out of the UK for years charging over the odds for right hand drive metal. If they want to sell new motors it's time to start cutting list prices in a big way. I have cash in the bank to buy a new motor but won't make a move until this happens.
Stuarty Boy said:
The only remedy I see is for the finance companies and banks to lower their underwriting acceptance score. If they dont then there are going to be so many people with defaults registered against them that no one will pass credit and allot less cars/vans will be sold. Last month we had our record number of declines ever.
I think that would help somewhat. The banks and lenders are probably lending higher to just reduce risk and also build up some liquidity.Competition and some reserves building up, I expect, will slowly bring the rates down again, but I doubt they will go back to the early 2007 levels of lending to anyone with a name and address with 0% deposit for a new Corsa etc...
We have to look what has happened. Billions of toxic debt from bad lending. Is it a surprise that it has to be both a, paid back by lowering interest rates faster than lending rates, and b, they are a bit cagey to lend to anyone that poses a risk. Cars are not an investment at all. They hit negative equity instantly. A lender, lending for NEW car buying, is taking a BIG risk!
If the car companies really wanted to do business they could offer competitive credit themselves, but then even they would realise that they wouldn't be able to lend much, sensibly, because it's risky
And as ndj said, the industry has an opportunity now to change for the better, rather than carry on in what was an ultimately unsustainable fashion, both the credit for cars one, and the car ones. Ie, the disposable car culture and naff residual performance might now change, to make new cars better buys for the longer term!? Who knows.
As much as it's bad now, the outlook can only get better if they are willing to work hard and make sacrifices, and come up with better ideas for sustainability/scalability etc...
Dave
Edited by Mr Whippy on Thursday 4th December 17:27
One big problem is that UK manufacturing was destroyed by the Thatcher Conservative government and their "reforms" were backed by their banking friends in the city. Now in the 80's we were all made to accept a change to have our salaries into a bank via Thatcher legislation, this profited the banks and all of a sudden new products were offered and so your "switch" card was born and ISSA etc .
This obviously made Financial services big business BUT an economy NEEDS manufacturing to survive and we have not got much of it in the UK anymore.
Now the Banks have been allowed to take a free hand for 30 years and the result is world meltdown all caused by greed.
As for the Government bailing out, well that have done the banks and they should be taking a little more control over them to tell them what they should be doing for the UK, there should be tighter controls over this industry.
In the main profits for all need to be realistic not extortionate, shops etc can afford to take 20% cuts from their 100% mark ups so maybe this is a start as well as affordable loans now interest rates are 2%, some say we should join the euro as the time is right, well who knows.
What is needed is a social shift to not having the car you want when you want, but the car that's best for you when you are able to afford it.
This obviously made Financial services big business BUT an economy NEEDS manufacturing to survive and we have not got much of it in the UK anymore.
Now the Banks have been allowed to take a free hand for 30 years and the result is world meltdown all caused by greed.
As for the Government bailing out, well that have done the banks and they should be taking a little more control over them to tell them what they should be doing for the UK, there should be tighter controls over this industry.
In the main profits for all need to be realistic not extortionate, shops etc can afford to take 20% cuts from their 100% mark ups so maybe this is a start as well as affordable loans now interest rates are 2%, some say we should join the euro as the time is right, well who knows.
What is needed is a social shift to not having the car you want when you want, but the car that's best for you when you are able to afford it.
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