Modifying an Elise interior - Heated seats, Microwave...
Discussion
I've decided that I wanted to have a Lotus Elise series 1 as the last car I will ever buy, or at the very least the last car I will buy for the foreseeable future. The downside of getting rid of my comfy "ghia" existence is that I lose the heated seats, electric windows, the parking sensors, the cup holders and all the other sh*te that makes half six on the Monday morning commute a little more bearable. Are there any issues, aside from the ridiculous increasing weight, with getting power to stuff in the cabin?
The heater in the S1 sucks it down. This doesn't bother the hardcore but if you're not hardcore, it will wind you up to the point that you lose sight of the awesomeness of the handling. I sold my S1 as I simply couldn't get on with the preposterous noise, the overheating engine but freezing cold heater, the feeling that the car was going to fall apart every time I took it out, etc.
But I still wanted to love the Elise as the handling was exactly what I liked. After dallying with plenty of other British sportscars and 3 993 porkers (yes, I am a Porsche enthusiast as well, but only for the air cooled cars, and they don't make 'em anymore...), I decided to try out the VX220 turbo (which I reckoned would be an S1.5 Elise). I absolutely loved it and kept it the longest I've kept any of my cars. A bizarre incident in June which only resulted in one corner of the rear clam getting bashed resulted in the insurance writing it off
but after a lot of aggro with insurance (Markerstudy underwriters outsourced their claims department to a third party, who were the most obstructive, rude, unprofessional bunch of assholes I've ever come across. I have since found out that Markerstudy have terminated that contract and brought claims back in-house... this is not naming and shaming because Markerstudy weren't the bad guys here - they paid out handsomely eventually...) I am now the proud owner of an S2 Exige S and I'm as happy as a pig in shît.
Now can you not be tempted with a series 2?? The heater in my car works within 5 minutes and clears the windscreen quickly. It even has aircon to demist the car in the winter. It works. As a daily driver, it's bloody excellent - yes it weighs a couple of hundred kilos more than a properly lightweight S1 but it's still bloody light.
If it *has* to be a series 1, then firstly I'd seriously consider getting the electrically heated windscreen (Eliseparts?) that has an element built in to rapidly demist it. You'll need to get up half an hour earlier to warm the car up otherwise, if you plan to use it in a morning commute. The heater really is s
te, unless there's a way to retro-fit some of the S2 components into the S1 I reckon your best bet is heated seats and heated windscreen. It's probably a decent idea to pinch some of the probax seats from an S2 as they are considerably more comfortable than the early S1 seats. Another issue is the leaking roof... I cannot stand cars that leak and have tried most options. Lotus have continually redesigned the rubber seals at the front edges of the roof, and it'd be worth seeing if you can retro-fit the new-design seals to an old roof. Then soak the roof in Thompson's water seal (the stuff you use on brickwork - it worked perfectly on my old Griff 500). Or get a hardtop, but you'll still need the decent window seals. One trick with the hardtop is to get a car water-blade. If it's been raining then there will be plenty of water pooled on top of the hardtop, and a few seconds after opening the door it will all pour off, into the car. Quite a lot can come in and that will just evaporate and recondense on the windscreen, making every morning a nightmare (and cold mornings will involve ice on the inside of the screen). Use the water-blade to wipe all the water off the hardtop before you get in! Works a treat.
There are electric heating elements available from the kit car builder shops (I think I've seen them advertised in PPC magazine) but I'd imagine that they draw a lot of current and you'd have to ensure the cabling is hefty enough to cope and that the alternator has enough reserve capacity. I can't remember where the battery is in the S1 - in the VX220 it's in the front so cabling up any heavy-duty stuff in the cabin wouldn't be too bad, but if the S1 battery is like the S2 i.e. in the boot, then more heavy cable will be required.
Also if you bung in additional heating elements, then you'd run the risk of making the car heavier to the point where an S2 Elise is the same weight, and you may as well then get a recent S2 with OEM heater / aircon etc. that actually works. You also get vents at face / body level in the later cars which can be useful if you want to drive with the roof off in winter.
An alternative would be to get an S2 with working heater etc. and then strip some of the luxury stuff out to make it lighter (but obviously not the heater)
But I still wanted to love the Elise as the handling was exactly what I liked. After dallying with plenty of other British sportscars and 3 993 porkers (yes, I am a Porsche enthusiast as well, but only for the air cooled cars, and they don't make 'em anymore...), I decided to try out the VX220 turbo (which I reckoned would be an S1.5 Elise). I absolutely loved it and kept it the longest I've kept any of my cars. A bizarre incident in June which only resulted in one corner of the rear clam getting bashed resulted in the insurance writing it off
but after a lot of aggro with insurance (Markerstudy underwriters outsourced their claims department to a third party, who were the most obstructive, rude, unprofessional bunch of assholes I've ever come across. I have since found out that Markerstudy have terminated that contract and brought claims back in-house... this is not naming and shaming because Markerstudy weren't the bad guys here - they paid out handsomely eventually...) I am now the proud owner of an S2 Exige S and I'm as happy as a pig in shît.Now can you not be tempted with a series 2?? The heater in my car works within 5 minutes and clears the windscreen quickly. It even has aircon to demist the car in the winter. It works. As a daily driver, it's bloody excellent - yes it weighs a couple of hundred kilos more than a properly lightweight S1 but it's still bloody light.
If it *has* to be a series 1, then firstly I'd seriously consider getting the electrically heated windscreen (Eliseparts?) that has an element built in to rapidly demist it. You'll need to get up half an hour earlier to warm the car up otherwise, if you plan to use it in a morning commute. The heater really is s
te, unless there's a way to retro-fit some of the S2 components into the S1 I reckon your best bet is heated seats and heated windscreen. It's probably a decent idea to pinch some of the probax seats from an S2 as they are considerably more comfortable than the early S1 seats. Another issue is the leaking roof... I cannot stand cars that leak and have tried most options. Lotus have continually redesigned the rubber seals at the front edges of the roof, and it'd be worth seeing if you can retro-fit the new-design seals to an old roof. Then soak the roof in Thompson's water seal (the stuff you use on brickwork - it worked perfectly on my old Griff 500). Or get a hardtop, but you'll still need the decent window seals. One trick with the hardtop is to get a car water-blade. If it's been raining then there will be plenty of water pooled on top of the hardtop, and a few seconds after opening the door it will all pour off, into the car. Quite a lot can come in and that will just evaporate and recondense on the windscreen, making every morning a nightmare (and cold mornings will involve ice on the inside of the screen). Use the water-blade to wipe all the water off the hardtop before you get in! Works a treat.There are electric heating elements available from the kit car builder shops (I think I've seen them advertised in PPC magazine) but I'd imagine that they draw a lot of current and you'd have to ensure the cabling is hefty enough to cope and that the alternator has enough reserve capacity. I can't remember where the battery is in the S1 - in the VX220 it's in the front so cabling up any heavy-duty stuff in the cabin wouldn't be too bad, but if the S1 battery is like the S2 i.e. in the boot, then more heavy cable will be required.
Also if you bung in additional heating elements, then you'd run the risk of making the car heavier to the point where an S2 Elise is the same weight, and you may as well then get a recent S2 with OEM heater / aircon etc. that actually works. You also get vents at face / body level in the later cars which can be useful if you want to drive with the roof off in winter.
An alternative would be to get an S2 with working heater etc. and then strip some of the luxury stuff out to make it lighter (but obviously not the heater)
To be honest I really can't see the point of buying a car like the S1 Elise and then loading it up with touring kit. If thats what you want then really the Elise isn't for you and you'd be better off buying an MX5 (seriously).
There's nothing wrong with the heater in most S1 Elises by the way. Maybe cyberface had a failed matrix or another problem but mine soon gets me as warm as toast. Once the cab has warmed up (doesn't take long as its so small) I have to turn the heating right down otherwise I'd roast - I could drive my car in shorts and a T-shirt with snow on the ground! I've also had no overheating issues with my engine. OK the K series can suffer HGF but once fixed (if done properly) shouldn't trouble you again. De-misting? It takes a few minutes in my car and thats with just two of the four dash top vents in use (the other two have got loudspeakers in them). I think the generally held consensus is that the heater on the S1 is better than the S2 (not talking about the later air conditioned models). The roof? OK, make sure the windows are properly adjusted, take the time (a few extra seconds) to make sure you fit the roof properly and fabsil it to top up its waterproofing properties. My car lives outside and I can honestly say water ingress is not a problem.
A lot of the supposed 'issues' will have been sorted on a well looked after one however I'm not sure the S1 is the right car for you however I went from the leathered up luxury of an all-electric Jag to an S1 and MGZT. I sold the ZT as it never got used!! I've now bought a second car (Alfa 156) but that was mainly as my Elise is coming off the road for a suspension refresh and engine mods. One advantage of having a second 'shed' car is that when you get back into the Elise it feels sooooooo much more special.
Try to drive as many S1s as you can and also drive some S2s. You might find that by spending some more money and getting an S2 111S you will find the ideal comporomise.
There's nothing wrong with the heater in most S1 Elises by the way. Maybe cyberface had a failed matrix or another problem but mine soon gets me as warm as toast. Once the cab has warmed up (doesn't take long as its so small) I have to turn the heating right down otherwise I'd roast - I could drive my car in shorts and a T-shirt with snow on the ground! I've also had no overheating issues with my engine. OK the K series can suffer HGF but once fixed (if done properly) shouldn't trouble you again. De-misting? It takes a few minutes in my car and thats with just two of the four dash top vents in use (the other two have got loudspeakers in them). I think the generally held consensus is that the heater on the S1 is better than the S2 (not talking about the later air conditioned models). The roof? OK, make sure the windows are properly adjusted, take the time (a few extra seconds) to make sure you fit the roof properly and fabsil it to top up its waterproofing properties. My car lives outside and I can honestly say water ingress is not a problem.
A lot of the supposed 'issues' will have been sorted on a well looked after one however I'm not sure the S1 is the right car for you however I went from the leathered up luxury of an all-electric Jag to an S1 and MGZT. I sold the ZT as it never got used!! I've now bought a second car (Alfa 156) but that was mainly as my Elise is coming off the road for a suspension refresh and engine mods. One advantage of having a second 'shed' car is that when you get back into the Elise it feels sooooooo much more special.
Try to drive as many S1s as you can and also drive some S2s. You might find that by spending some more money and getting an S2 111S you will find the ideal comporomise.
There is the chance that both my S1 and the VXT had failed heater matrices, as they are known to be a problem, but even at their best they weren't a patch on the S2 Exige. The S1 was always bad, the VXT got hot eventually but it'd never clear the screen with only two vents, even at full blast it was poor. And I'd dismantled the front to make sure the air hose was attached properly and not leaking (and put a pair of my GF's tights on to reduce all the crap being blown into the cabin 
). Funnily enough, the general consensus was that my VXT was one of the good ones!!!
I know where you're coming from regarding the light weight ethos of the Elise and 'loading it up' with touring kit... but if the standard car isn't comfortable enough (ventilation / temperature / dampness) then I don't see a conceptual problem of trying to fix what you don't like as long as you don't add too much weight. I had the opposite problem in the Griff 500 - perfect in the winter, unbearably hot in the summer due to heat-soak. It's not 'touring kit', it's just making it more easily usable for short commuting trips as well as proper driving, which it was made for. If you have a warm garage, then it's not a problem, but if you have to park year-round in an exposed car park, anything that makes the Elise/VX220 warm up / defrost / demist faster makes it immediately usable.
I've had people tell me to get a crap car for pottering about but TBH I'd rather be driving something I love all the time. Even if it's not ideally suited for the job, I'll just compromise a bit - how far you go is a personal choice. After all, the Elise is meant to be more practical than a Caterham... if it's taboo to talk about creature comforts with the Lotus then why not go the whole hog and get a Seven, given that they are even more 'pure' as a driving experience?
I wouldn't go as far as suggesting an MX-5, since it's a completely different type of handling car. Maybe a mk3 MR2, since that's light weight as well (not as light as an Elise, but still under 1000 kg IIRC). The problem with the MR2 is the lack of storage space, at least the Elise has a decent sized boot.
IMO you don't *have* to be hardcore and put up with unnecessary discomfort to love these cars. Lotus have pretty much proved that with their later models - built better, a little bit heavier but still damn fast and with incredibly delicate steering feel and superb handling.
The S1 can be made waterproof and usable as a daily driver, but it needs work (as you admit, you've done the final QC that Lotus never did) - just trying to make the point to the OP that he'll need to get the S1 *just so* for it to be dependable and dry - there was a fair amount of variability of build from the factory with the early cars.
Just making it a more practical outdoor-living car isn't against the ethos of the thing. There are plenty of people doing a lot worse - the 50-odd page thread on SELOC about hi-fi speakers for Elises (many S1s) and people talking about subwoofers etc. gives me the 'harrumph' effect
). Funnily enough, the general consensus was that my VXT was one of the good ones!!!I know where you're coming from regarding the light weight ethos of the Elise and 'loading it up' with touring kit... but if the standard car isn't comfortable enough (ventilation / temperature / dampness) then I don't see a conceptual problem of trying to fix what you don't like as long as you don't add too much weight. I had the opposite problem in the Griff 500 - perfect in the winter, unbearably hot in the summer due to heat-soak. It's not 'touring kit', it's just making it more easily usable for short commuting trips as well as proper driving, which it was made for. If you have a warm garage, then it's not a problem, but if you have to park year-round in an exposed car park, anything that makes the Elise/VX220 warm up / defrost / demist faster makes it immediately usable.
I've had people tell me to get a crap car for pottering about but TBH I'd rather be driving something I love all the time. Even if it's not ideally suited for the job, I'll just compromise a bit - how far you go is a personal choice. After all, the Elise is meant to be more practical than a Caterham... if it's taboo to talk about creature comforts with the Lotus then why not go the whole hog and get a Seven, given that they are even more 'pure' as a driving experience?
I wouldn't go as far as suggesting an MX-5, since it's a completely different type of handling car. Maybe a mk3 MR2, since that's light weight as well (not as light as an Elise, but still under 1000 kg IIRC). The problem with the MR2 is the lack of storage space, at least the Elise has a decent sized boot.
IMO you don't *have* to be hardcore and put up with unnecessary discomfort to love these cars. Lotus have pretty much proved that with their later models - built better, a little bit heavier but still damn fast and with incredibly delicate steering feel and superb handling.
The S1 can be made waterproof and usable as a daily driver, but it needs work (as you admit, you've done the final QC that Lotus never did) - just trying to make the point to the OP that he'll need to get the S1 *just so* for it to be dependable and dry - there was a fair amount of variability of build from the factory with the early cars.
Just making it a more practical outdoor-living car isn't against the ethos of the thing. There are plenty of people doing a lot worse - the 50-odd page thread on SELOC about hi-fi speakers for Elises (many S1s) and people talking about subwoofers etc. gives me the 'harrumph' effect
This will be my 4th Elise, I have had 2 S1s and one S2. That's how I know it is likely to the last car I ever buy (either that or because I drive like a w*nker and this luck can't hold out forever :-) ) I found the heating in the series one better than the series two, and the hardcore-ness appealed. That said, I think it would benefit from a few gadgets. Even loaded up with all the pointless gay stuff I'll bet its a hell of a lot lighter than an S2 porker. I have seen the heated windscreen but I think it's a bit expensive. Electric windows might be an option. From the look of the aftermarket seat heating element is about 2 mm thick so I can't imagine it's all that heavy. I was thinking about a remote starter device for those cold mornings, okay as long as it's got an "in gear" sensor! I was also thinking about getting an in car PC but I have an ultramobile that can fit a mounting kit :-) I may need a larger battery!
Any other suggestions?
:-)
Any other suggestions?
:-)
My apoloigies to the OP: your original post gave me the impression that you didn't have any experience of the Elise. You'll be well versed on the foibles of the S1 then so know what to look for and what you add to the car by way of 'personalisation' is up to you. I like to be able to listen to music in my car (600 mile round trips for track days would be unbearable otherwise) so I've 7 speaker (including a little sub) set up all nicely tucked away and probably doesn't weigh more than 10kg. I'd be a bit worried about security in your case unless you can hide everything away.
I know what cyberface means regarding the build quality. I drove an 08 Exige S and was amazed by the (relative) quality of the thing. I'll probably replace the S1 with one eventually.
I know what cyberface means regarding the build quality. I drove an 08 Exige S and was amazed by the (relative) quality of the thing. I'll probably replace the S1 with one eventually.
M030ef00 said:
This will be my 4th Elise, I have had 2 S1s and one S2. That's how I know it is likely to the last car I ever buy (either that or because I drive like a w*nker and this luck can't hold out forever :-) ) I found the heating in the series one better than the series two, and the hardcore-ness appealed. That said, I think it would benefit from a few gadgets. Even loaded up with all the pointless gay stuff I'll bet its a hell of a lot lighter than an S2 porker. I have seen the heated windscreen but I think it's a bit expensive. Electric windows might be an option. From the look of the aftermarket seat heating element is about 2 mm thick so I can't imagine it's all that heavy. I was thinking about a remote starter device for those cold mornings, okay as long as it's got an "in gear" sensor! I was also thinking about getting an in car PC but I have an ultramobile that can fit a mounting kit :-) I may need a larger battery!
Any other suggestions?
:-)
Must admit, I was suprised by the S1 heater comments above as well. The heater on my car gets warm pretty quick and if left to its own devices, will toast you up good and proper. I have been following the seat heater thread on SELOC with interest as well, looks pretty promising and I can't beleive they weigh anymore than bugger all, not that I'd really care anyway. I think heated seats are at their best in topless cars in winter.Any other suggestions?
:-)
The windscreen is something I intend to do if I ever need a replacement, an insurance company should be happy to go with the heated screen as a replacement as it costs no more than a standard one.
I'm not sure I'd recommend a remote started, letting the car idle from cold is far from ideal. Would highly recommend a full carpet set though and some sound proofing material sandwiched in between.
I can see why people ask, why not just buy an S2? however an S2 isn't the car I fell in love with as a sixteen year old and it would also cost me a good £5k more to get one. One interesting thing, and I've never been able to explain this, is that prior to myself owning the car, my 111s was weighed on corner scales with a few other Elises and Sevens. With full carpet, a sub woofer and uprated speakers, roof on, full tank of fuel etc it weighed in at only 760kg. Can't see a 'comfort spec' S2 matching that.
Edited by Gad-Westy on Monday 8th December 12:40
Edited by Gad-Westy on Monday 8th December 15:05
Another S1 with a very efficient heater (and watertight hardtop) here!
To the OP, perhaps see how many amps the stock alternator is rated and compare that to, say, the alternator in a specced up K-series Freelander - that might give you an idea of whether you need to upgrade the alternator to run your extra toys.
On a slight tangent, if I commuted in mine I would probably put a shower cap on it each night during winter to get around the de-icing and having water drip into the cabin when the doors are opened.
Brad
To the OP, perhaps see how many amps the stock alternator is rated and compare that to, say, the alternator in a specced up K-series Freelander - that might give you an idea of whether you need to upgrade the alternator to run your extra toys.
On a slight tangent, if I commuted in mine I would probably put a shower cap on it each night during winter to get around the de-icing and having water drip into the cabin when the doors are opened.
Brad
braddo said:
On a slight tangent, if I commuted in mine I would probably put a shower cap on it each night during winter to get around the de-icing and having water drip into the cabin when the doors are opened.
I've found a solution to that that works with all hardtops I've used (B&C carbon on S1, aftermarket VXT hardtop, S2 Exige) - the trick is that the water only pours into the car when you disturb the balance. Picture the car sitting there with half a litre of water in large puddles on the hardtop. The water doesn't go anywhere - open the door carefully, not a problem. Get into the car - you put your weight on one sill, the suspension gives slightly and tips all the water on the roof into the car on your side.So.... get a soft rubber water-blade from Halfrauds and store it on the chassis floor ahead of the driver's seat. When the car is covered with water, open the door carefully, whip out the water-blade and close the door again (within 5 seconds or so). Use the water blade to scrape all the water off the roof and onto the windscreen, job done. You can then take your time getting in without any risk of drips into the cabin.
On my fourth winter with an Elise derivative and it works a treat. Getting a roof-ful of water into the cabin is bad news since if you don't evaporate it all away in the subsequent drive, then it will condense into all fabric in the car and then you'll end up with heavy condensation on the windscreen and potentially internal ice in the cold months. Get it dry inside, then keep it dry is my motto. With the S1 I also resorted to the dehumidifier crystals (anhydrous calcium chloride, IIRC) but that was largely because the windows wouldn't adjust enough to seal against the B&C hardtop rubber seals. Later cars and newer hardtop designs have much chunkier rubber seals, especially at the leading edge attaching to the windscreen, where the problems start. The VXT was largely OK, the Exige has been perfect so far. Still got a water blade for getting in when it's very wet though
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