*IF* Honda is sold, which engine?
Discussion
If Honda is sold there are rumours that Brawn may approach Ferrari for an engine supply, but if you were McLaren/BMW/Renault, would you be approaching the new owners in the hope of taking on some of Honda's supposed excellent understanding of KERS?
And on the flip side, if you were the new owner, which engine would you be going after?
And on the flip side, if you were the new owner, which engine would you be going after?
According to Fry, Honda will consider supplying engines / selling the engine IP to the new owners, although unlikely to be badged Honda. Not sure how concrete that offer is though, as other rumours have suggested Ross has already been in touch with Ferrari and the engineers were already looking into the logistics of what would need doing to fit an alternative engine.
Let's say that the new owner buys the IP for the engines, supplies that IP to Cosworth to build the engines for them - how would the homologation rules work?
Surely it would count as a new engine entrant and, therefore, would need to be homologated as such within the rules of the engine freeze. However, would Cosworth be allowed to improve upon certain aspects of the engine, if they identified any areas that could be improved?
Surely it would count as a new engine entrant and, therefore, would need to be homologated as such within the rules of the engine freeze. However, would Cosworth be allowed to improve upon certain aspects of the engine, if they identified any areas that could be improved?
Not sure about intellectual IP so I won't comment on that. It's a damn good question though.
As for the options - All 3 of the current 2nd team engine suppliers should be looking into the option of supplying what was the Honda team if it still exists in 2009. There are goog commercial reasons for selling more engines as well as the potential advantage of gaining more testing & access perhaps to Honda's very expensivly produced KERS technology.
The disadvantages could be for Mercedes that they don't trust Ross Brawn's connections to Ferrari & Ferrari may not trust his connections with the rest of the world.
Alternatively there is the possibility of being 1 of the teams that signs up to Max's Cosworth deal. There's some sound sense in that as they wouldn't be forced to play second fiddle to a manufacturer's own team. I can see Williams, Red Bull etc thinking the same. & perhaps Force India by now.
As for using Honda's own engine (badged or unbadged), this seems to be the best option as the 09 car will be available for tersting that bit sooner if it can run with the engine it was designed for.
As for the options - All 3 of the current 2nd team engine suppliers should be looking into the option of supplying what was the Honda team if it still exists in 2009. There are goog commercial reasons for selling more engines as well as the potential advantage of gaining more testing & access perhaps to Honda's very expensivly produced KERS technology.
The disadvantages could be for Mercedes that they don't trust Ross Brawn's connections to Ferrari & Ferrari may not trust his connections with the rest of the world.
Alternatively there is the possibility of being 1 of the teams that signs up to Max's Cosworth deal. There's some sound sense in that as they wouldn't be forced to play second fiddle to a manufacturer's own team. I can see Williams, Red Bull etc thinking the same. & perhaps Force India by now.
As for using Honda's own engine (badged or unbadged), this seems to be the best option as the 09 car will be available for tersting that bit sooner if it can run with the engine it was designed for.
german tony said:
There are good commercial reasons for selling more engines as well as the potential advantage of gaining more testing & access perhaps to Honda's very expensivly produced KERS technology.
Indeed - with the testing restrictions looking to get tighter and tighter, any tie up with another team that could lead to more data on KERS (or, indeed, anything else) would certainly be advantageous.german tony said:
The disadvantages could be for Mercedes that they don't trust Ross Brawn's connections to Ferrari & Ferrari may not trust his connections with the rest of the world.
Possibly. I guess it depends on how Fezza feel about him going to Honda rather than back to Italy.german tony said:
Alternatively there is the possibility of being 1 of the teams that signs up to Max's Cosworth deal. There's some sound sense in that as they wouldn't be forced to play second fiddle to a manufacturer's own team. I can see Williams, Red Bull etc thinking the same. & perhaps Force India by now.
Williams and Red Bull I think would certainly be giving that some thought (providing that the engine is competitive) - I would guess there is some pressure on them not to be too good. Force India on the other hand seem to have a pretty in depth, beneficial deal with McMerc - I can't see them jumping ship.german tony said:
As for using Honda's own engine (badged or unbadged), this seems to be the best option as the 09 car will be available for tersting that bit sooner if it can run with the engine it was designed for.
That's less of an issue these days, since the weights and sizes of the engines are so tightly controlled, engine compatibility isn't so much of a problem.Edited by MrKipling43 on Sunday 7th December 13:10
The problem for anyone considering buying the Honda team at the moment is the current manpower.
Unless a deal in principle is agreed very, very quickly, the best personnel and those with the best knowledge in areas where Honda is thought to be strong will be snapped up by the other teams.
In F1, aside from finances, the biggest limiting factor is getting the best people in the right positions. If Honda lose theirs, the value of the team suffers.
Unless a deal in principle is agreed very, very quickly, the best personnel and those with the best knowledge in areas where Honda is thought to be strong will be snapped up by the other teams.
In F1, aside from finances, the biggest limiting factor is getting the best people in the right positions. If Honda lose theirs, the value of the team suffers.
Andy M said:
If Honda is sold there are rumours that Brawn may approach Ferrari for an engine supply, but if you were McLaren/BMW/Renault, would you be approaching the new owners in the hope of taking on some of Honda's supposed excellent understanding of KERS?
if honda had such excellent understanding of kers, they wouldn't be selling the racing team IMO. why would they fail for 3 years then sell a potential race winning car and team for someone else to start getting the results?skinny said:
Andy M said:
If Honda is sold there are rumours that Brawn may approach Ferrari for an engine supply, but if you were McLaren/BMW/Renault, would you be approaching the new owners in the hope of taking on some of Honda's supposed excellent understanding of KERS?
if honda had such excellent understanding of kers, they wouldn't be selling the racing team IMO. why would they fail for 3 years then sell a potential race winning car and team for someone else to start getting the results?10 Pence Short said:
skinny said:
Andy M said:
If Honda is sold there are rumours that Brawn may approach Ferrari for an engine supply, but if you were McLaren/BMW/Renault, would you be approaching the new owners in the hope of taking on some of Honda's supposed excellent understanding of KERS?
if honda had such excellent understanding of kers, they wouldn't be selling the racing team IMO. why would they fail for 3 years then sell a potential race winning car and team for someone else to start getting the results?In some ways you have to admire the decision to get rid. They've just announced they're mothballing Swindon and can you imagine how you'd feel if you'd just lost your job right before Christmas and you employer is continuing to spend £300m on motor racing?! Massively peed off I should think.
OJ said:
I smell the return of Mugen to F1
No reason for them to return to F1 though, is there?Cosworth have the contract for the 'standard' engine, the Honda V8 isn't very highly regarded and is developed about as far as the regulations allow and there are other suppliers already in F1, such as Ferrari and Renault with proven engines available.
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