Honda VTEC in a Westfield?

[NDT]

Has anyone done this?
Will it fit, or are they too tall?
Any thoughts?

Edited by NDT on Wednesday 10th December 12:53

[Justin S]

yes, has been done.Theres a guy called mickmade on the westfield forum, who has made carbon fibre bellhousings, so using the ford box, as the honda is a bit of of big beast to get in.It does fit, bit is tall.The gearing is not quite right if you use the Honda box I believe.

[ajprice]

Honda Civic/Integra etc 4cyl VTEC won't go or will be a job and a half if it does, see here - http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Honda S2000 6cyl VTEC will go and has been done.

[Sam_68]

ajprice said:

Honda Civic/Integra etc 4cyl VTEC won't go or will be a job and a half if it does, see here - http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Honda S2000 6cyl VTEC will go and has been done.

Not that the Civic VTEC won't go, it's just there are easier, cheaper and better solutions - it's not as if it's such an outstanding engine that it would be worth the trouble.

The S2000 is not a 6 cylinder, by the way - it's a 4 cylinder.

[ajprice]

Sam_68 said:

ajprice said:

Honda Civic/Integra etc 4cyl VTEC won't go or will be a job and a half if it does, see here - http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Honda S2000 6cyl VTEC will go and has been done.

Not that the Civic VTEC won't go, it's just there are easier, cheaper and better solutions - it's not as if it's such an outstanding engine that it would be worth the trouble.

The S2000 is not a 6 cylinder, by the way - it's a 4 cylinder.

Is it??! Bugger, lol. I have always thought the S2000 was a straight six!

[NDT]

Thanks chaps.
Pondering the idea of a Westfield build and can't decide on engine - had thought an S2000 engine / box / diff would be a good set up in a Westy.
The idea of reliable, out of the box power is attractive, and whatever I build I want to be satisfied by power-wise...

[NDT]

Perversely I've always hankered after a SEight - but the idea of a V8 in a Seven seems wrong.
Anyone know how much the Rover V8 weighs compared to a VTEC?
The S2000 box in particular is supposed to be a big heavy beast....

[Sam_68]

The Rover isn't that heavy; it's a bit more than a Ford Pinto by the time you've added the manifolds and ancillaries (though lots of people myself included - view the Pinto as being way too heavy for a Seven).

The other big problem I have with the Rover in a Seven, though, is torque:weight. Sevens should be about precise, well-balanced handling and the torque of the rover engine simply overwhelms the chassis.

They are very fast in a straight line, and reasonably fast round corners provided you set them up with some compliance, but they kind of miss the point, for me... a Seven is a rapier. If you want a broadsword, go buy a Cobra or a TVR.

[Furyblade_Lee]

My mate is putting S2000 running gear into a new Fury build. He is an Audi R8 Technitian so knows his stuff, and I do not think he has encountered many problems. Using the engine , box and loom from the donor with an extra ECU designed by someone else off-the-shelf to make it run. Think he is envisiging under 600kgs so with 240bhp standard and more like 250 in the Fury install, it will not be slow! I know he is also looking into supercharging it, that will give 350-400bhp and apparently they still do not break! ALL the Honda running gear cost him just £2,000, that is a LOT of indestructible power for the money. You may have an unsightly piece of engine sticking out of your bonnet in a Westy though.

[Furyblade_Lee]

I am also sure all the Type-R engines spin the opposite way round to Ford engines, so that was traditionally why Type-R's have not been used widely in 7's. You can make a bellhousing, but you will only be going fast backwards.

[Sam_68]

Furyblade_Lee said:

I am also sure all the Type-R engines spin the opposite way round to Ford engines, so that was traditionally why Type-R's have not been used widely in 7's. You can make a bellhousing, but you will only be going fast backwards.

:cough: Inverted diff and s/c gearbox :cough:

I was under the impression that the S2000 motor revolved the right way, though?

[Martin Keene]

Furyblade_Lee said:

I am also sure all the Type-R engines spin the opposite way round to Ford engines, so that was traditionally why Type-R's have not been used widely in 7's. You can make a bellhousing, but you will only be going fast backwards.

Kind of true. All Honda engines up until the latest range of iVtec motors all rotated the wrong way. The S200 was the first that rotated the right way, followed by the 1st uk market Civic Type R, and other Civic engines.

[Danger_Mouse]

Sam_68 said:

ajprice said:

Honda Civic/Integra etc 4cyl VTEC won't go or will be a job and a half if it does, see here - http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Honda S2000 6cyl VTEC will go and has been done.

Not that the Civic VTEC won't go, it's just there are easier, cheaper and better solutions - it's not as if it's such an outstanding engine that it would be worth the trouble.

The S2000 is not a 6 cylinder, by the way - it's a 4 cylinder.

I can't think of a better 4 cylinder engine to have in the car over the K20.

It's a wonderful engine, very reliable and loves to be punished.

[NDT]

Danger_Mouse said:

Sam_68 said:

ajprice said:

Honda Civic/Integra etc 4cyl VTEC won't go or will be a job and a half if it does, see here - http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Honda S2000 6cyl VTEC will go and has been done.

Not that the Civic VTEC won't go, it's just there are easier, cheaper and better solutions - it's not as if it's such an outstanding engine that it would be worth the trouble.

The S2000 is not a 6 cylinder, by the way - it's a 4 cylinder.

I can't think of a better 4 cylinder engine to have in the car over the K20.

It's a wonderful engine, very reliable and loves to be punished.

Exactly.
Shame it just looks like it's a bit of a faff getting into a Westfield - drysumping (adding £1k+ to the cost) plus still having to mod bits of chassis if I understand correctly. Not sure I fancy doing this to a brand new chassis.

[rdodger]

Looks a bit rough



Amazing init!

[rdodger]

In terms of gear ratios

TRANSMISSION:
Caterham ultra close-ratio aluminium gearbox.
1st 2.69:1
2nd 2.01:1
3rd 1.59:1
4th 1.32:1
5th 1.13:1
6th 1.00:1
Reverse 2.96:1.
Final Drive: Limited Slip Differential 3.92:1.

Honda S2000

6 Speed Manual Transmission

Gear Ratios - 1st 3.133
Gear Ratios - 2nd 2.045
Gear Ratios - 3rd 1.481
Gear Ratios - 4th 1.161
Gear Ratios - 5th 0.971
Gear Ratios - 6th 0.811
Gear Ratios - Reverse 2.8
Final Drive Ratio 4.1 : 1

The K series Caterham R500 has pretty much the same power and torque as the Honda. So it looks to me if you used the engine, box and diff from the Honda it isn't so different. Ok 1st is maybe a bit short but otherwise ok if we say Caterham know what they are doing.

For comparison

T9 Standard Ratios

1st 3.65
2nd 1.97
3rd 1.37
4th 1.00
5th .816

T9 Close ratio 1st 2.91

Edited by rdodger on Wednesday 10th December 21:54

Edited by rdodger on Wednesday 10th December 22:42

[mickmade]

I just wish I was given time to tidy up the garage before that picture was taken.
And yes it does work (only 1150 grams)
Presently working on a duratec carbon bellhousing for my next Westfield.
Regards.

Edited by mickmade on Monday 15th December 19:22

Edited by mickmade on Monday 15th December 19:23

[tuffer]

rdodger said:

Looks a bit rough



Amazing init!

That looks bloody fast just sat on the bench

[chuntington101]

[quote=mickmade]I just wish I was given time to tidy up the garage before that picture was taken.
And yes it does work (only 1150 grams)
Presently working on a duratec carbon bellhousing for my next Westfield.
Regards.quote]

Hvae you got any more info on the bell housing? any plans to sell them? how thick is the carbon??

Chris.

PS. did someone not use a S2000 engines in a carbon bodied westfield one? im sure i saw it in TRC mag...

[NDT]

mickmade said:

I just wish I was given time to tidy up the garage before that picture was taken.
And yes it does work (only 1150 grams)
Presently working on a duratec carbon bellhousing for my next Westfield.
Regards.

Edited by mickmade on Monday 15th December 19:22

Edited by mickmade on Monday 15th December 19:23

Mick,
much respect for your work on that S2000 Westfield.
How much hassle was it to get it to fit?
Nick