06/07 F430's how much off asking price for Cash??
Discussion
Hi Folks, first post from across the sea in Dublin.
I hope to own my first Ferrari shortly. My problem is that there are no ferrari dealers here in Ireland (theres one in Belfast) so the range of cars here is very limited, and I will be taking one in from the UK. With the way the Eur/Stg is going, its looking sooner rather than later.
I know everyone here is sick of discussing how much values have fallen, but thats not what I am after.
My issue is that the dealers I have spoken to on the phone have been fairly cagey about what they will be prepared to accept in terms of price, and it becomes a catch 22........I dont want to travel all the way to see a car, only for them to be unwilling to budge on the price, but it seems I won't be able to see the price unless I travel. Obviously I could waste a huge amount of time and money flying back and forth.
So my question: for an F430, 06/07 F1, value anywhere between 80-100k, for a straight cash deal, no trade in, how much could one expect to get off the offered price???
Everyone I talk to says that for a given offer price of, say, 80k, you can get at least another 5-10k off if you can stump up immediate readies. I am interested to know from people who have bought recently.......can you get great deals for cash at the moment or is it a bit of an urban legend?
Any advice greatly appreciated.
Mick
I hope to own my first Ferrari shortly. My problem is that there are no ferrari dealers here in Ireland (theres one in Belfast) so the range of cars here is very limited, and I will be taking one in from the UK. With the way the Eur/Stg is going, its looking sooner rather than later.
I know everyone here is sick of discussing how much values have fallen, but thats not what I am after.
My issue is that the dealers I have spoken to on the phone have been fairly cagey about what they will be prepared to accept in terms of price, and it becomes a catch 22........I dont want to travel all the way to see a car, only for them to be unwilling to budge on the price, but it seems I won't be able to see the price unless I travel. Obviously I could waste a huge amount of time and money flying back and forth.
So my question: for an F430, 06/07 F1, value anywhere between 80-100k, for a straight cash deal, no trade in, how much could one expect to get off the offered price???
Everyone I talk to says that for a given offer price of, say, 80k, you can get at least another 5-10k off if you can stump up immediate readies. I am interested to know from people who have bought recently.......can you get great deals for cash at the moment or is it a bit of an urban legend?
Any advice greatly appreciated.
Mick
Hi Mick,you probaly will get an extremly good deal on any F car available in Ireland,i recently got out off a 360 spider so know how bad the market is--but good for a buyer that is,unlike the Uk where there is at least some marketplace, in Ireland there IS NONE,any dealer will be desperate too offload this type off car,because of our f
ked up vrt system once the car is reg it simply cannot be sold out of the country again,there is a few around,you might be suprised.
ked up vrt system once the car is reg it simply cannot be sold out of the country again,there is a few around,you might be suprised. Mick
Trade has at least a 25k margin between what the cars cost and retail price,and they all need cash!!,i know that most buyers at this level have particular specs(took me 3 months too source my last 1)so the irish market wont suit you,but be careful,you need to get one as low as possible because come resale time it will hurt.
Trade has at least a 25k margin between what the cars cost and retail price,and they all need cash!!,i know that most buyers at this level have particular specs(took me 3 months too source my last 1)so the irish market wont suit you,but be careful,you need to get one as low as possible because come resale time it will hurt.
rory355 said:
Mick
Trade has at least a 25k margin between what the cars cost and retail price,and they all need cash!!,i know that most buyers at this level have particular specs(took me 3 months too source my last 1)so the irish market wont suit you,but be careful,you need to get one as low as possible because come resale time it will hurt.
I reckon more like £10k at the moment max, they are all working for less profit to shift cars and i believe allot are selling for a loss. Just go on the Ferrari approved used car locator and contact the dealers with cars in your price range and make an offer over the phone. You have to remember that they get these types of calls everyday so some may be a bit Pi**ed off listening to another potential customer or as far as they know dreamer asking them what they would take for a Ferrari.Trade has at least a 25k margin between what the cars cost and retail price,and they all need cash!!,i know that most buyers at this level have particular specs(took me 3 months too source my last 1)so the irish market wont suit you,but be careful,you need to get one as low as possible because come resale time it will hurt.
As for wanting cash? I dont think thats the case atall, they make more money from finance deals. And allot of the cars they have are on SOR so there is a minimum amount the actual owner of the car will accept.
But more importantly, before you start offering money for a car that you may have not drove - You must take one out on a test drive as it may not go as well as you may think it does. The amount of footballers that bought Gallardos/F430's and got rid of them straight away as they did not drive like there 6 series BMW's is suprising.
Edited by Wanta996Gotta on Friday 19th December 10:50
rory355 said:
Mick
Trade has at least a 25k margin between what the cars cost and retail price,and they all need cash!!,i know that most buyers at this level have particular specs(took me 3 months too source my last 1)so the irish market wont suit you,but be careful,you need to get one as low as possible because come resale time it will hurt.
25K?!!!!!!!!!!! No way!!!Trade has at least a 25k margin between what the cars cost and retail price,and they all need cash!!,i know that most buyers at this level have particular specs(took me 3 months too source my last 1)so the irish market wont suit you,but be careful,you need to get one as low as possible because come resale time it will hurt.
I have have a close relationship with both manufactures and dealers and its more like 7k to 12k. Somtimes a lot less if they have had it a while.
Plus all their costs need to come out off that as well, i.e servicing ect....
I am sure Rory is referring to Ireland. There are only 5 430's advertised here, with the cheapest 05 being €169k. That's £158k. Even with our ludicrous taxes that's excessive. Problem is that Ireland is collapsing so spectacularly at the moment, these dealers have those cars on their books for 6 months and have imported them at much different fx rates. They are now staring down the barrell of massive losses.
Wanta996Gotta said:
As for wanting cash? I dont think thats the case atall, they make more money from finance deals.
That is my impression too. People think that cash is king, but the dealer needs to make as much money as he can, and selling finance is a good source. You're likely to get a better discount via finance, as they have the margin on the finance to play with as well as the margin on the car itself.
kryten22uk said:
Wanta996Gotta said:
As for wanting cash? I dont think thats the case atall, they make more money from finance deals.
That is my impression too. People think that cash is king, but the dealer needs to make as much money as he can, and selling finance is a good source. You're likely to get a better discount via finance, as they have the margin on the finance to play with as well as the margin on the car itself.
If the OP has cash from my experience he will be spoilt for choice .. margins on F cars from my experience work out at about £7-£12k depending on model type.
Yeah lads, finance out of the question for obvious reasons. I had thought though that given the state of the narket (and things getting apparently worse by the day) that a straight cash deal where I had no trade in, would be attractive since it creates cashflow and helps clear up the forecourt a little. Are dealers yet desperate enough to forego that£7-12k margin just to get rid of stock?
Mick
Mick
I guess it will vary from dealer to dealer and their individual mentality...
Some get a car in, pay X, decide they want Y or near enough and will absolutely stick to that and will let the car sit there for month upon month on end until he gets price Y...
Others like to have a steady turnover of cars and like their fporecourt to look 'lively' and are a lot more flexible in their pricing etc... (I guess all that will then depend on their individual financial circumstances at any given time!)
IMHO - If I had a great big metaphorical wad of cash in my hand and was wanting to buy at a time like this - I would be taking the p*ss like a mofo, ringing every vendor and offering whatever amount it was *I* wanted to pay and quite happily tell them I'm walking away to try the next 5 (potentially desperate) vendors!
Some get a car in, pay X, decide they want Y or near enough and will absolutely stick to that and will let the car sit there for month upon month on end until he gets price Y...
Others like to have a steady turnover of cars and like their fporecourt to look 'lively' and are a lot more flexible in their pricing etc... (I guess all that will then depend on their individual financial circumstances at any given time!)
IMHO - If I had a great big metaphorical wad of cash in my hand and was wanting to buy at a time like this - I would be taking the p*ss like a mofo, ringing every vendor and offering whatever amount it was *I* wanted to pay and quite happily tell them I'm walking away to try the next 5 (potentially desperate) vendors!
Edited by evil_dr_fish on Friday 19th December 14:27
Dr Fish
Your last suggestion is exactly what I want to do, and would do if I was buying here in Ireland. I have the cash and can do an immediate deal.
Problem is its obviously a bit more difficult being over here......I have found that over the phone its hard to convince the dealers that you are a genuine potential buyer, and to get them to discuss price. They virtually all say, "we don't like discussing prices over the phone, why don't you come down and take a look at the car and then we'll see what we can do". No substitute for showing up in person with the chequebook in hand and a take it or leave it attitude. I'm afraid of taking the time off work, booking flights etc and finding out the seller won't budge or the car isn't in the condition I expect.
Beginning to think the best thing to do might be to just buy some sterling now at these levels and take my time for the perfect car. Especially if, as Rory says, I'm gonna have a nightmare selling anything other than the perfect spec car here in Ireland..
Thanks all.
Mick
Your last suggestion is exactly what I want to do, and would do if I was buying here in Ireland. I have the cash and can do an immediate deal.
Problem is its obviously a bit more difficult being over here......I have found that over the phone its hard to convince the dealers that you are a genuine potential buyer, and to get them to discuss price. They virtually all say, "we don't like discussing prices over the phone, why don't you come down and take a look at the car and then we'll see what we can do". No substitute for showing up in person with the chequebook in hand and a take it or leave it attitude. I'm afraid of taking the time off work, booking flights etc and finding out the seller won't budge or the car isn't in the condition I expect.
Beginning to think the best thing to do might be to just buy some sterling now at these levels and take my time for the perfect car. Especially if, as Rory says, I'm gonna have a nightmare selling anything other than the perfect spec car here in Ireland..
Thanks all.
Mick
PST 1 said:
rory355 said:
Mick
Trade has at least a 25k margin between what the cars cost and retail price,and they all need cash!!,i know that most buyers at this level have particular specs(took me 3 months too source my last 1)so the irish market wont suit you,but be careful,you need to get one as low as possible because come resale time it will hurt.
25K?!!!!!!!!!!! No way!!!Trade has at least a 25k margin between what the cars cost and retail price,and they all need cash!!,i know that most buyers at this level have particular specs(took me 3 months too source my last 1)so the irish market wont suit you,but be careful,you need to get one as low as possible because come resale time it will hurt.
I have have a close relationship with both manufactures and dealers and its more like 7k to 12k. Somtimes a lot less if they have had it a while.
Plus all their costs need to come out off that as well, i.e servicing ect....
MB7274 said:
I am sure Rory is referring to Ireland. There are only 5 430's advertised here, with the cheapest 05 being €169k. That's £158k. Even with our ludicrous taxes that's excessive. Problem is that Ireland is collapsing so spectacularly at the moment, these dealers have those cars on their books for 6 months and have imported them at much different fx rates. They are now staring down the barrell of massive losses.
Excactly,the taxes on that car(05 ) to currently import is circa 60000 euros tops,whats trade price on a 05 f430-70k??--makes that car 135000 tax paid,and dealer asking 170k!!!!Mick,
One of the main reasons dealers really hate talking prices over the phone is that punters ask about condition, negotiate a price, agree a price... go to collect it and then see another little scratch/chip that they don't like, and demand another 2K off.
If you can convince the dealer that you are a serious buyer, and will not pee them around, then I think you can talk prices on the phone. OK different league I know, but when I bought my m3 a couple years back I called a BMW garage across the country, confirmed spec, talked about condition (at some length) and was then able to negotiate. I think that really asking the nitty gritty about the car first (tyre/brake disc&pad/service history/paintwork/spec/owners etc) will then allow the dealer to enter discussion. When he knows that you know everything about the car, he knows that when you get there you can't suck through your teeth and say "oooh, 4 owners, I was after a 2 owner car. Gotta be 2K less, mate."....... Your posistion is especially strong if you are in NI, as the dealer will have to understand the issue of your travel.
Also, if there are particular cars you are interested in, I'd post up and see if there are any owners here on PH local to the garage, who you could ask to give the car a 10 min look over on your behalf. They will quickly be able to give you an idea if the salesman is being fair on his description of condition, or talking up a pig. I'm sure you'd be able to find people willing to help.
Upshot is, to arm yourself with as much knowledge as possible about the cars, the dealers will know you are serious then. I know little about 430's, again, in my experience it was questions like running in service/when was inspII last done/bearing recall? etc.. that showed the guy I knew what I Was looking for and that I understood what the car should be. He persuaded me the car was as it should be, I whapped a deposit down over phone (refundable if car was not as described), went over, collected, had 18 months of monster motoring
Good luck!
Stu
oh, and in answer to your initial question, it really is impossible to know. Some cars will be cheap (little discount), some expensive (lots of discount). You'll just have to get a feel for the market, try to work out what they are selling for, then you'll know what you should be paying for a car, and the discount you should look for is the difference between that number and the number on the windscreen.
You are better buying a £1K over valued car with no discount, than getting a 10K discount on a 15K overvalued car!
One of the main reasons dealers really hate talking prices over the phone is that punters ask about condition, negotiate a price, agree a price... go to collect it and then see another little scratch/chip that they don't like, and demand another 2K off.
If you can convince the dealer that you are a serious buyer, and will not pee them around, then I think you can talk prices on the phone. OK different league I know, but when I bought my m3 a couple years back I called a BMW garage across the country, confirmed spec, talked about condition (at some length) and was then able to negotiate. I think that really asking the nitty gritty about the car first (tyre/brake disc&pad/service history/paintwork/spec/owners etc) will then allow the dealer to enter discussion. When he knows that you know everything about the car, he knows that when you get there you can't suck through your teeth and say "oooh, 4 owners, I was after a 2 owner car. Gotta be 2K less, mate."....... Your posistion is especially strong if you are in NI, as the dealer will have to understand the issue of your travel.
Also, if there are particular cars you are interested in, I'd post up and see if there are any owners here on PH local to the garage, who you could ask to give the car a 10 min look over on your behalf. They will quickly be able to give you an idea if the salesman is being fair on his description of condition, or talking up a pig. I'm sure you'd be able to find people willing to help.
Upshot is, to arm yourself with as much knowledge as possible about the cars, the dealers will know you are serious then. I know little about 430's, again, in my experience it was questions like running in service/when was inspII last done/bearing recall? etc.. that showed the guy I knew what I Was looking for and that I understood what the car should be. He persuaded me the car was as it should be, I whapped a deposit down over phone (refundable if car was not as described), went over, collected, had 18 months of monster motoring
Good luck!
Stu
oh, and in answer to your initial question, it really is impossible to know. Some cars will be cheap (little discount), some expensive (lots of discount). You'll just have to get a feel for the market, try to work out what they are selling for, then you'll know what you should be paying for a car, and the discount you should look for is the difference between that number and the number on the windscreen.
You are better buying a £1K over valued car with no discount, than getting a 10K discount on a 15K overvalued car!
Edited by stuthemong on Saturday 20th December 21:30
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