Will detailer just scrub out my swirl marks?
Discussion
Hi guys, I have spent ages now reading all the posts on here. I have got light swirling on my 4 year old 997 in the Basalt Black paintwork. Have gone over it with Zymol HD Clense and got some Poorboys Black Hole filler, but I know this is not a permenant solution.
Was just wondering if a decent detailer would do the clay barring and then use his machine polisher to get rid of the swirls, then let me take it home and finish it off. I have to park in a busy street so got no drive or garage therefore don't want to buy my own machine polisher.
Got a great guy in Hertfordshire that will do the whole works for £400 but he needs car a few days and would involved me getting train after drop off/pick up. Any recommendations for North London?
Was just wondering if a decent detailer would do the clay barring and then use his machine polisher to get rid of the swirls, then let me take it home and finish it off. I have to park in a busy street so got no drive or garage therefore don't want to buy my own machine polisher.
Got a great guy in Hertfordshire that will do the whole works for £400 but he needs car a few days and would involved me getting train after drop off/pick up. Any recommendations for North London?
Too answer your post
A black car 4 years old with light swirling would proberly look really bad under the correct lighting too high light the damage !
I have done many black cars some aroung a year old with shocking paint condition , and i could asure you that you would find it very hard to get excellent results form only one day detail !
It would also take me atleast 2 days to get the paint flawless and a coat of wax etc! I have never managed to complete even a lesser detail (body , wheels and glass) in one day !
wash , dry , clay , mask , paint depth reading , machine polish with atleast 4 grades of compounds as it is black , then unmask and wipe down with a cleaner to remove left over compound residue , could not be done to the best possible standard in one day !
The average complete full inside and out detail takes me around 3 days with some cars taking over 7 days because of 70 percent time being the machine polishing and to be fair by far the hardest and most skilled part of detailing!
And do you realise that after the machine polish the best end result is to use a wax / sealant then let it cure and recoat the following day while left indoors , and put as many coats as possible on allowing time to cure between layers !
I have had a few cars in my unit for over a month before for wetsand and detail then 10 - 15 coats of activated sealant for the ultimate protection and durability !
Anyway as i am unit based i could or maybe able to help as i will working through christmas on my own ,so if you wanted i might be able to help you if it was timed right !
Arrange a very early start time with you helping along the way and be ready for a late finish then it could just be done in a day if i keeps the shutter door shut and dont answer the phone or emails then it could be done !
If not £400 for 2 days from the guy you know is spot on and use him
A black car 4 years old with light swirling would proberly look really bad under the correct lighting too high light the damage !
I have done many black cars some aroung a year old with shocking paint condition , and i could asure you that you would find it very hard to get excellent results form only one day detail !
It would also take me atleast 2 days to get the paint flawless and a coat of wax etc! I have never managed to complete even a lesser detail (body , wheels and glass) in one day !
wash , dry , clay , mask , paint depth reading , machine polish with atleast 4 grades of compounds as it is black , then unmask and wipe down with a cleaner to remove left over compound residue , could not be done to the best possible standard in one day !
The average complete full inside and out detail takes me around 3 days with some cars taking over 7 days because of 70 percent time being the machine polishing and to be fair by far the hardest and most skilled part of detailing!
And do you realise that after the machine polish the best end result is to use a wax / sealant then let it cure and recoat the following day while left indoors , and put as many coats as possible on allowing time to cure between layers !
I have had a few cars in my unit for over a month before for wetsand and detail then 10 - 15 coats of activated sealant for the ultimate protection and durability !
Anyway as i am unit based i could or maybe able to help as i will working through christmas on my own ,so if you wanted i might be able to help you if it was timed right !
Arrange a very early start time with you helping along the way and be ready for a late finish then it could just be done in a day if i keeps the shutter door shut and dont answer the phone or emails then it could be done !
If not £400 for 2 days from the guy you know is spot on and use him
Porsche paint is normally rock hard and will take that length of time to do the job I would say.
I did a 997 Cab this year and I allowed 2 days for it and got done by about 5pm on the 2nd day but I did also do the waxing and interior too.
This time of year with the shorter days it makes work elongate into 2 days as you cant start the process as early, and work as late as we'd like.
If you are happy with the guy I'd say £400 is a good price just make sure you are getting the full wash, clay, paint thickness measurements, paint correction and paint cleansing. I personally like to finish a job ie do the waxing etc myself but wouldn't want to loose a job over it!
Best wishes
Tim
I did a 997 Cab this year and I allowed 2 days for it and got done by about 5pm on the 2nd day but I did also do the waxing and interior too.
This time of year with the shorter days it makes work elongate into 2 days as you cant start the process as early, and work as late as we'd like.
If you are happy with the guy I'd say £400 is a good price just make sure you are getting the full wash, clay, paint thickness measurements, paint correction and paint cleansing. I personally like to finish a job ie do the waxing etc myself but wouldn't want to loose a job over it!
Best wishes
Tim
Thanks for all the solid advice guys. It is the same with most jobs, a lot more knowledge and skill involved, than most people realise. If I am going to have the job done I may as well have it done properly.
Had a good chat to guy at Polished Bliss and he too told me that Porsche paint v hard, but he being in Scotland that really is too far to go. Really appreciate the offer KDS, v impressed by your website (was looking at it for ages earlier). Would be a great opportunity to learn while "helping" you for the day. Will get a polisher when I get a garage and would tops to see an expert in action. But really haven't got time to come down there for the day at the mo. If I need a smaller job done in future, will defo drop down or may come down for a chat (and a blast) to buy some products.
Can understand why you would like to put on the wax, is the best part of the job after all the prep work.
Am having my wheels sprayed black to match the car up in Herts. But from EVO mag this month looked up Gtechniq for paint protection. They say is a wheel referber next door to them, so now thinking could kill 2 birds with 1 stone, so wouldn't be without the car twice. Gtechniq tackle swirls before applying their product and could also get my new wheels treated. Saw a price of £600 for a 996, so maybe worth my while if a 'normal' detail is gonna cost me £400.
Read a PH General Gassing thread about Gtechniq in which their MD has his say and seems to be a fair few admirers of his product. Would be interested to hear the views of professional detailers.
Had a good chat to guy at Polished Bliss and he too told me that Porsche paint v hard, but he being in Scotland that really is too far to go. Really appreciate the offer KDS, v impressed by your website (was looking at it for ages earlier). Would be a great opportunity to learn while "helping" you for the day. Will get a polisher when I get a garage and would tops to see an expert in action. But really haven't got time to come down there for the day at the mo. If I need a smaller job done in future, will defo drop down or may come down for a chat (and a blast) to buy some products.
Can understand why you would like to put on the wax, is the best part of the job after all the prep work.
Am having my wheels sprayed black to match the car up in Herts. But from EVO mag this month looked up Gtechniq for paint protection. They say is a wheel referber next door to them, so now thinking could kill 2 birds with 1 stone, so wouldn't be without the car twice. Gtechniq tackle swirls before applying their product and could also get my new wheels treated. Saw a price of £600 for a 996, so maybe worth my while if a 'normal' detail is gonna cost me £400.
Read a PH General Gassing thread about Gtechniq in which their MD has his say and seems to be a fair few admirers of his product. Would be interested to hear the views of professional detailers.
If you did not know Lepsons are next door to me too which have been refurbishing wheels for over 15 years !
If you look on my website at the cayenne turbo s that is black with black wheels refurbed at the same time by lepsons while being detailed !
We do the car park type dents , small paint work , leather recolouring , window tinting as well as wheels next door so are a one stop shop covering must requests , and the main reason i am unit based to be able to cover must things !
Most cars on my website would of had there wheels done by lepsons at the same time as detail !
Me and the onwer of lepsons are always coming up with new ideas when it comes to wheel colours etc!
And for the future reference if both detailing and the wheels are booked at the same time with me and lepsons the price works out cheaper than booking at different times !
Its simple really go direct to lepsons and you will be charged for lifting removing your wheels , storing the car , and then refitting wheels ,with un protected wheels (bare new paint)
Or leave the car with me i lift your car on the detailing ramp remove the wheels give them too lepsons to be refurbished , then i carry on detailing your car on the ramp for a couple of days , then apply sealant to your brand new wheels inside and out refit them after they have been refurbished !
So you get new wheels sealed as well at the deliver wheel trade only price too lepsons !
Its a win win situation
As i have said before lepsons and me were due to display at the Pistonhead show together but i have been too busy so ran out of time to organise the advent , so lepsons will be there only !
Edit forgot too say minute walk from train station direct route to london aswell !;)
If you look on my website at the cayenne turbo s that is black with black wheels refurbed at the same time by lepsons while being detailed !
We do the car park type dents , small paint work , leather recolouring , window tinting as well as wheels next door so are a one stop shop covering must requests , and the main reason i am unit based to be able to cover must things !
Most cars on my website would of had there wheels done by lepsons at the same time as detail !
Me and the onwer of lepsons are always coming up with new ideas when it comes to wheel colours etc!
And for the future reference if both detailing and the wheels are booked at the same time with me and lepsons the price works out cheaper than booking at different times !
Its simple really go direct to lepsons and you will be charged for lifting removing your wheels , storing the car , and then refitting wheels ,with un protected wheels (bare new paint)
Or leave the car with me i lift your car on the detailing ramp remove the wheels give them too lepsons to be refurbished , then i carry on detailing your car on the ramp for a couple of days , then apply sealant to your brand new wheels inside and out refit them after they have been refurbished !
So you get new wheels sealed as well at the deliver wheel trade only price too lepsons !
Its a win win situation
As i have said before lepsons and me were due to display at the Pistonhead show together but i have been too busy so ran out of time to organise the advent , so lepsons will be there only !
Edit forgot too say minute walk from train station direct route to london aswell !;)
Edited by kds keltec on Thursday 18th December 22:22
If you want your wheels done as well, Lepsons http://www.lepsons.com/ is opposite KDS.
Believe me your'll be more than happy with both their work on your pride and joy.
Edited to say KDS beat me to it LOL.
And you think you have problems hahahahah http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=603...
Believe me your'll be more than happy with both their work on your pride and joy.
Edited to say KDS beat me to it LOL.
And you think you have problems hahahahah http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=603...
Edited by Westy Pre-Lit on Thursday 18th December 22:41
Again thanks for the advice, u make a very persuasive case. I have heard v good things about Lepton's and yr website does look v smart. Got a parking scrape on rear bumber couple of inches long too. No dent but scratched thru to the primer. Could that be done at the same time?
Better get off line now before the mrs thinks im looking at naughty stuff on my computer again, well she doesn't mind that as much as my Porsche obsession.
Better get off line now before the mrs thinks im looking at naughty stuff on my computer again, well she doesn't mind that as much as my Porsche obsession.
G-techniq is one of the few sealants that does actually offer multiple years in durability, layers a nano crystal type coating, to give an indication of it's durability if the residue dries before buffing of, it needs to be wetsanded to remove, so best applied in a controlled enviroment.
The c4 plastic treatment is excellent and transforms jaded trim back to original lustre and lasts 1-2 years.
A couple of G/T examples I've done,
50/50 on a 996 trim under wipers.
after 6 months.
Finish on a E55,
Have done many correction only details for likeminded enthusiasts who wish to apply there own last step product.
As already stated these types of correction and protection applications really require multiple days this time of year, whilst I am mobile and London is well within my coverage, any G-techniq applications need to be applied inside.
I have covered facilitys in Thurrock/Lakeside or have access to a unit in Godstone/Surrey, if any of the above is of interest or you wish further info then please feel free to contact me.
The c4 plastic treatment is excellent and transforms jaded trim back to original lustre and lasts 1-2 years.
A couple of G/T examples I've done,
50/50 on a 996 trim under wipers.
after 6 months.
Finish on a E55,
Have done many correction only details for likeminded enthusiasts who wish to apply there own last step product.
As already stated these types of correction and protection applications really require multiple days this time of year, whilst I am mobile and London is well within my coverage, any G-techniq applications need to be applied inside.
I have covered facilitys in Thurrock/Lakeside or have access to a unit in Godstone/Surrey, if any of the above is of interest or you wish further info then please feel free to contact me.
Edited by gleammachine on Saturday 20th December 12:29
gleammachine said:
G-techniq is one of the few sealants that does actually offer multiple years in durability, layers a nano crystal type coating...
Almost right Rob, it offers about a year IIRC and then you need top ups. But it is a covalent (bonding) product and does give superior durability to standard waxes and sealants. Worth looking into if you buy into the bonding idea (rather than having a sacrificial layer that gets replaced regularly taking the contaminants with it). We are looking into covalent products at the moment as it is a bit more interesting than 'natural enzyme' waxes and the like. However, ease of use is the killer... it's not forgiving in untrained hands, hence pro application only.domster said:
gleammachine said:
G-techniq is one of the few sealants that does actually offer multiple years in durability, layers a nano crystal type coating...
Almost right Rob, it offers about a year IIRC and then you need top ups.
Depends on usage and stuff, but 15 months could perhaps be achievable. I'm sure we'll find the technology appear in cleacoats in 2020 or something...997addict said:
Hi guys, I have spent ages now reading all the posts on here. I have got light swirling on my 4 year old 997 in the Basalt Black paintwork. Have gone over it with Zymol HD Clense and got some Poorboys Black Hole filler, but I know this is not a permenant solution.
Was just wondering if a decent detailer would do the clay barring and then use his machine polisher to get rid of the swirls, then let me take it home and finish it off. I have to park in a busy street so got no drive or garage therefore don't want to buy my own machine polisher.
Got a great guy in Hertfordshire that will do the whole works for £400 but he needs car a few days and would involved me getting train after drop off/pick up. Any recommendations for North London?
You could buy a pot of 3M Fineese-it and do it by hand!Was just wondering if a decent detailer would do the clay barring and then use his machine polisher to get rid of the swirls, then let me take it home and finish it off. I have to park in a busy street so got no drive or garage therefore don't want to buy my own machine polisher.
Got a great guy in Hertfordshire that will do the whole works for £400 but he needs car a few days and would involved me getting train after drop off/pick up. Any recommendations for North London?
I am a experienced machine polisher but do not believe in clay bars! you dont need them for whirl marks. Ive used it once and gave it back to my supplier in the shape of morph with his little dick up he's *ss. Normally if you have something suck to paintwork all you need is the edge of your fingernail or a blade then a good polish with fineese-it and thats it. To save the expense of someone machining and like doing it yourself, you can us fineese-it and it will remove the whirl marks and then use a light amount of wax it will bring it up beautifully.
Machining doesnt cost more than £100. its just the traveling expenses thats the problem.
Shelbysteve said:
You could buy a pot of 3M Fineese-it and do it by hand!
I am a experienced machine polisher but do not believe in clay bars! you dont need them for whirl marks. Ive used it once and gave it back to my supplier in the shape of morph with his little dick up he's *ss. Normally if you have something suck to paintwork all you need is the edge of your fingernail or a blade then a good polish with fineese-it and thats it. To save the expense of someone machining and like doing it yourself, you can us fineese-it and it will remove the whirl marks and then use a light amount of wax it will bring it up beautifully.
Machining doesnt cost more than £100. its just the traveling expenses thats the problem.
You are kidding? you don't need a clay bar for removing swirl marks, they are used to remove bonded contaminents, fingernail or blade is not recommended advice.I am a experienced machine polisher but do not believe in clay bars! you dont need them for whirl marks. Ive used it once and gave it back to my supplier in the shape of morph with his little dick up he's *ss. Normally if you have something suck to paintwork all you need is the edge of your fingernail or a blade then a good polish with fineese-it and thats it. To save the expense of someone machining and like doing it yourself, you can us fineese-it and it will remove the whirl marks and then use a light amount of wax it will bring it up beautifully.
Machining doesnt cost more than £100. its just the traveling expenses thats the problem.
IMO my time to machine polish and correct a vehicles paintwork which to do correctly would exceed in most cases 8 hrs and sometimes into multiple days does cost in the excess of £100.
Not that familiar with all the 3m polishes and only really have experience with fast cut + and Ultrafina, but a lot of the older products are heavy with fillers and would only disguise the defects.
Shelbysteve said:
997addict said:
Hi guys, I have spent ages now reading all the posts on here. I have got light swirling on my 4 year old 997 in the Basalt Black paintwork. Have gone over it with Zymol HD Clense and got some Poorboys Black Hole filler, but I know this is not a permenant solution.
Was just wondering if a decent detailer would do the clay barring and then use his machine polisher to get rid of the swirls, then let me take it home and finish it off. I have to park in a busy street so got no drive or garage therefore don't want to buy my own machine polisher.
Got a great guy in Hertfordshire that will do the whole works for £400 but he needs car a few days and would involved me getting train after drop off/pick up. Any recommendations for North London?
You could buy a pot of 3M Fineese-it and do it by hand!Was just wondering if a decent detailer would do the clay barring and then use his machine polisher to get rid of the swirls, then let me take it home and finish it off. I have to park in a busy street so got no drive or garage therefore don't want to buy my own machine polisher.
Got a great guy in Hertfordshire that will do the whole works for £400 but he needs car a few days and would involved me getting train after drop off/pick up. Any recommendations for North London?
I am a experienced machine polisher but do not believe in clay bars! you dont need them for whirl marks. Ive used it once and gave it back to my supplier in the shape of morph with his little dick up he's *ss. Normally if you have something suck to paintwork all you need is the edge of your fingernail or a blade then a good polish with fineese-it and thats it. To save the expense of someone machining and like doing it yourself, you can us fineese-it and it will remove the whirl marks and then use a light amount of wax it will bring it up beautifully.
Machining doesnt cost more than £100. its just the traveling expenses thats the problem.
So to try and understand a few points then, are you suggesting that "a pot of 3M Fineese-it and do it by hand" is going to give better results than a product applied by machine?
As for believing in clay bars, might I suggest you haven't used one properly? If you had then you would understand the reasons for its use. Seeing for your own eyes that even after a multi stage cleaning / washing cycle the level on contaminents that are on a car will leave you in no doubt at all that its a necessity when correcting paintwork.
As for using a blade to remove "something stuck" from your paintwork, I have to assume your not being serious there.....
Your pricing on machining not costing more than £100 - whats that based on then? How many hours?
Does that cover a full wash program and paint cleansing, machine compounding, Application of a sealing product too? I'm guessing it does, since thats the basic steps you would have to follow.....
997addict is saying light whirl marks!
I am visualizing his car has suffered sponge & leather whirl marks so that why i am saving him time and expense to try the 3m fineese-it product!
I am well aware of the prices public pay for this new kind of detailers machine process! Being among the traders for 24 years you tend to get a funny look when you ask for more then 80 pounds tops for a car that may of taken 3 day's to renovate for them.
I have been machining cars for 24 years even before cleaning cars was called Valeting let alone Detailing and have many different products for many different problems to paints.
As for the claybar, vehicles i have ever done in all kinds of conditions from railway brake filling fallout to easy tree sap, i have never needed to use a claybar! Yes I've had a claybar for 6 years and never needed it, i know it use and know how to us it. a product called selphos toilet cleaner removes the rail fallout glue and tar remover and TFR removes all the other crap from the road that lies on the paint surface.
The thing with car cleaning is each to there now on the many ways of producing the perfect shine. Ive never had one complaint!
Yes it would be perfect to be paid £400+ to machine polish a car but in reality you dont get very many people that care that much for a car to be cleaned in that way! so its the trade you rely on for a weeks wage.
I have a customer that has many sports cars including a Audi R8 that he said he wants a good clean on it! so i said would you like a good detail and he looked staight through me and said a car is a car to me I only want it washed and hoovered and have no interest in waxing it.
As for Blades! yes but maybe your not thinking of the kind of blades i use thou never really use them that much unless a car has run over fresh wet white line road paint.
I am visualizing his car has suffered sponge & leather whirl marks so that why i am saving him time and expense to try the 3m fineese-it product!
I am well aware of the prices public pay for this new kind of detailers machine process! Being among the traders for 24 years you tend to get a funny look when you ask for more then 80 pounds tops for a car that may of taken 3 day's to renovate for them.
I have been machining cars for 24 years even before cleaning cars was called Valeting let alone Detailing and have many different products for many different problems to paints.
As for the claybar, vehicles i have ever done in all kinds of conditions from railway brake filling fallout to easy tree sap, i have never needed to use a claybar! Yes I've had a claybar for 6 years and never needed it, i know it use and know how to us it. a product called selphos toilet cleaner removes the rail fallout glue and tar remover and TFR removes all the other crap from the road that lies on the paint surface.
The thing with car cleaning is each to there now on the many ways of producing the perfect shine. Ive never had one complaint!
Yes it would be perfect to be paid £400+ to machine polish a car but in reality you dont get very many people that care that much for a car to be cleaned in that way! so its the trade you rely on for a weeks wage.
I have a customer that has many sports cars including a Audi R8 that he said he wants a good clean on it! so i said would you like a good detail and he looked staight through me and said a car is a car to me I only want it washed and hoovered and have no interest in waxing it.
As for Blades! yes but maybe your not thinking of the kind of blades i use thou never really use them that much unless a car has run over fresh wet white line road paint.
Shelbysteve said:
997addict is saying light whirl marks!
I am visualizing his car has suffered sponge & leather whirl marks so that why i am saving him time and expense to try the 3m fineese-it product!
I am well aware of the prices public pay for this new kind of detailers machine process! Being among the traders for 24 years you tend to get a funny look when you ask for more then 80 pounds tops for a car that may of taken 3 day's to renovate for them.
I have been machining cars for 24 years even before cleaning cars was called Valeting let alone Detailing and have many different products for many different problems to paints.
As for the claybar, vehicles i have ever done in all kinds of conditions from railway brake filling fallout to easy tree sap, i have never needed to use a claybar! Yes I've had a claybar for 6 years and never needed it, i know it use and know how to us it. a product called selphos toilet cleaner removes the rail fallout glue and tar remover and TFR removes all the other crap from the road that lies on the paint surface.
The thing with car cleaning is each to there now on the many ways of producing the perfect shine. Ive never had one complaint!
Yes it would be perfect to be paid £400+ to machine polish a car but in reality you dont get very many people that care that much for a car to be cleaned in that way! so its the trade you rely on for a weeks wage.
I have a customer that has many sports cars including a Audi R8 that he said he wants a good clean on it! so i said would you like a good detail and he looked staight through me and said a car is a car to me I only want it washed and hoovered and have no interest in waxing it.
As for Blades! yes but maybe your not thinking of the kind of blades i use thou never really use them that much unless a car has run over fresh wet white line road paint.
I Can't get my head round why you would spend 3 days on a car for £80? That is what you quoted.....I am visualizing his car has suffered sponge & leather whirl marks so that why i am saving him time and expense to try the 3m fineese-it product!
I am well aware of the prices public pay for this new kind of detailers machine process! Being among the traders for 24 years you tend to get a funny look when you ask for more then 80 pounds tops for a car that may of taken 3 day's to renovate for them.
I have been machining cars for 24 years even before cleaning cars was called Valeting let alone Detailing and have many different products for many different problems to paints.
As for the claybar, vehicles i have ever done in all kinds of conditions from railway brake filling fallout to easy tree sap, i have never needed to use a claybar! Yes I've had a claybar for 6 years and never needed it, i know it use and know how to us it. a product called selphos toilet cleaner removes the rail fallout glue and tar remover and TFR removes all the other crap from the road that lies on the paint surface.
The thing with car cleaning is each to there now on the many ways of producing the perfect shine. Ive never had one complaint!
Yes it would be perfect to be paid £400+ to machine polish a car but in reality you dont get very many people that care that much for a car to be cleaned in that way! so its the trade you rely on for a weeks wage.
I have a customer that has many sports cars including a Audi R8 that he said he wants a good clean on it! so i said would you like a good detail and he looked staight through me and said a car is a car to me I only want it washed and hoovered and have no interest in waxing it.
As for Blades! yes but maybe your not thinking of the kind of blades i use thou never really use them that much unless a car has run over fresh wet white line road paint.
As for your customer who has the R8, yes thats a fair point, but he is after a quick wash and a hoover, so if he is local and not wanting anything more than that then ok, he wants a £15 mini valet.
I think we might have to agree to disagree on the claybar though, similarly I'm not about to suggest to my clients that I will use toilet cleaner on their vehicles....(Sleep easy my Ph regulars!!)
Hello all,
Shelbysteve with you now being in the machine polishing game for 24 years can you please tell me what your process is on your top service you provide.
As others will agree with this if anyone has lasted for 24 years in the business you have to be doing something right. I do detailing work but i am always willing to listen to peoples advice on machine polishing.
I look forward to your reply
Shelbysteve with you now being in the machine polishing game for 24 years can you please tell me what your process is on your top service you provide.
As others will agree with this if anyone has lasted for 24 years in the business you have to be doing something right. I do detailing work but i am always willing to listen to peoples advice on machine polishing.
I look forward to your reply
Hi Rob and Ally
Thats what i think too the latest post about £80 details
Where did that post come from
I do agree with the clay statement as i dont tend to use clay much with the type of detailing that i carry out !
But with all the rest no!
I have 6 cars in my unit as i type this with 3 more coming over the weekend for detailing and they all take between 10-35 hours for machine compounding (panit correction) alone depending on the damage !
I have also been around 20 years in the trade painting and compounding cars using G3,G6,G7,G10 and 3m fineese-it.
Thats when its called compounding , mopping , buffing , spinning etc untill it got a posh name !
I also onced along time ago changed £50 for a quick mop with G3 and fineese and a coat of trade wax as a side line job and people where pleased with the results as was i too !
But things have moved on i have 2 car dealers who use my company for complex mechanical jobs only ! They both compound (not detail) all of their own car stock using their own in house cleaning guys !
And i have some good (but bad) after compound photos of such cars if people think i should post them?
So a few years ago when i said to the dealers that it would be my staff working full time of the mechincal work as i am solely heading towards detailing as much as possible as well as running the company they both laughed said it will never take off, earn any money and would not have enough people wanting that done ! So how comes they ring me everytime they have a cleaning problem with one of their stock and ask for advice or the fact that 3 weeks ago i fully detailed a car for a valetier that his living has only ever been cleaning cars ! This came about after he kept dropping cars of for mechincal work and seeing finished cars sitting in the unit !
I have also got 2 bodyshops that now use me to finish any high end cars that have been painted by them !
Yes i think too many people use the word detailer when there really a good valetier !
But where is the switch over from valetier to detailer?
I have cars left with me for upto 6 weeks before and nearly all would be a week or more to get perfection !
And there are more than i ever realised people willing to pay good money for the best you can get just like there are people willing to pay £80 for a quick buff by hand or machine ! It all comes down to what are you getting for your money ?
This picture below took 2 weeks start to finish and i charged not enough which i have had customers themselves say but a little more than £80!
Must buy a new bottle of 3m fineese-it as its the only 3m product i have not got in stock and it must have added pixie dust now!
Before
During 4 grade wet sand by hand
Then after magic pixie dust
Sorry just had to post this after reading the post in question !
Oh and i still get loads of people asking where can they get that wax that i am spreading using a machine , even thou its bare paint on the last fine compounding stages ! so i spend 30 minutes explaining whats involed and the products for machine polishing , showing them paint depth readings and looking at paint under a the correct light and have not even spoke about wax the normall replie is "so do you stock the wax or where do you get it from" i might as well not bother !
Shelbysteve said:
997addict is saying light whirl marks!
I am visualizing his car has suffered sponge & leather whirl marks so that why i am saving him time and expense to try the 3m fineese-it product!
I am well aware of the prices public pay for this new kind of detailers machine process! Being among the traders for 24 years you tend to get a funny look when you ask for more then 80 pounds tops for a car that may of taken 3 day's to renovate for them.
I have been machining cars for 24 years even before cleaning cars was called Valeting let alone Detailing and have many different products for many different problems to paints.
As for the claybar, vehicles i have ever done in all kinds of conditions from railway brake filling fallout to easy tree sap, i have never needed to use a claybar! Yes I've had a claybar for 6 years and never needed it, i know it use and know how to us it. a product called selphos toilet cleaner removes the rail fallout glue and tar remover and TFR removes all the other crap from the road that lies on the paint surface.
The thing with car cleaning is each to there now on the many ways of producing the perfect shine. Ive never had one complaint!
Yes it would be perfect to be paid £400+ to machine polish a car but in reality you dont get very many people that care that much for a car to be cleaned in that way! so its the trade you rely on for a weeks wage.
I have a customer that has many sports cars including a Audi R8 that he said he wants a good clean on it! so i said would you like a good detail and he looked staight through me and said a car is a car to me I only want it washed and hoovered and have no interest in waxing it.
As for Blades! yes but maybe your not thinking of the kind of blades i use thou never really use them that much unless a car has run over fresh wet white line road paint.
Selphos Toilet "Duck".....or bog cleaner to some.I am visualizing his car has suffered sponge & leather whirl marks so that why i am saving him time and expense to try the 3m fineese-it product!
I am well aware of the prices public pay for this new kind of detailers machine process! Being among the traders for 24 years you tend to get a funny look when you ask for more then 80 pounds tops for a car that may of taken 3 day's to renovate for them.
I have been machining cars for 24 years even before cleaning cars was called Valeting let alone Detailing and have many different products for many different problems to paints.
As for the claybar, vehicles i have ever done in all kinds of conditions from railway brake filling fallout to easy tree sap, i have never needed to use a claybar! Yes I've had a claybar for 6 years and never needed it, i know it use and know how to us it. a product called selphos toilet cleaner removes the rail fallout glue and tar remover and TFR removes all the other crap from the road that lies on the paint surface.
The thing with car cleaning is each to there now on the many ways of producing the perfect shine. Ive never had one complaint!
Yes it would be perfect to be paid £400+ to machine polish a car but in reality you dont get very many people that care that much for a car to be cleaned in that way! so its the trade you rely on for a weeks wage.
I have a customer that has many sports cars including a Audi R8 that he said he wants a good clean on it! so i said would you like a good detail and he looked staight through me and said a car is a car to me I only want it washed and hoovered and have no interest in waxing it.
As for Blades! yes but maybe your not thinking of the kind of blades i use thou never really use them that much unless a car has run over fresh wet white line road paint.
So, you'd prefer to use a product with Hydrochloric and Phosphoric Acid as two of its main constituents, rather than a non-toxic clay bar?
At this point, I'll point you in the direction of Bilt Hamber Labs - www.bilthamber.com - and ask you to have a chat with the chief chemist.
I'd also raise concern for the amount of chemicals you seem fond of using - you might look at Bilt Hamber's Surfex HD as an alternative, which is better for you, and the environment, not that I'm any great worrier about harming the environment with products I've chosen to use and recommend myself.
In regards to using 3M polishes - for that I do commend you, since your approach seems to be very old skool, and I'm surprised Farecla G3 wasn't mentioned.
As for £80 for a dealer-paying mop - that's fine for 2-3 hours work, but most valeters' results I've seen, result in marring and buffer trails galore, which in sunlight, looks as bad, if not worse than the swirls they removed!
All I can say, is your self worth for an hourly rate must be very low, because there is no way I'd slave over someone's car for 3 days, for a grand total of £80, before the taxman asks for his slice of it.
For someone with your years of experience, and presumably skill, £30/hr is the ABSOLUTE minimum you should be working at.
Your client with the R8, should be upsold the benefits of a full correction and sealant/wax treatment, if it needs it, since he cares enough about his status in life/public/peers' perception of his success, that his car should be a reflection of that when driven.
If you talk to him, and he respects your experience/advice, he should listen and let you charge accordingly.
If he want's a simple wash, dry, hoover, then £20-25 should be all needs extracting from his wallet, and a thank you.
If your work is up to the level implied, then please, please, please stop selling yourself short - charge what your time/expertise/knowledge are worth, which a damn sight more than minimum wage!
Gassing Station | Bodywork & Detailing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff