Results of MRI - Lower Back Pain.

[anonymous-user]

Any quacks in the house?

After 3 years of lower back pain and a few hospital visits (A&E) my useless GP finally sent me for an MRI scan.

I got the results back today and wanted to hear opinions from any doctors that may be on PH before I head to see my GP next week (who will most likely fob me off again).

From the MRI report:

At L3/4 level no abnormality is seen.
At L4/5 level there is disc degeneration with a substantial right central disc protrusion and possible right L5 nerve root pressure.
At L5/S1 level no abnormality is seen.
No bone abnormality is seen and there is normal vertebral alignment.
The distal cord appears normal.
The foramina appear adequate at all levels.
Impression: L4/L5 disc legion ans described above.

So, am i going to die then? Whats the recommended treatment?

I've been doing the old physio/exercises/stretches/core work etc for three years. I do get periods where things seem better but in the end I always break down again.

Thanks for any (medical) advice!

Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 20th December 08:31

[Cooky]

So, you're getting shooting pains down through yer bum and down yer leg, yer calf(top) feels like its constantly twisted and you get occasional pins and needles in yer ankle/toes...am I right?

[pies]

I'm no doc but i think in laymans terms it means your just getting old

Edited by pies on Saturday 20th December 08:42

[bobt]

I think pies wins the pies for the correct diagnosis.

[jshell]

I'm no doc, obviously, but due to my height I used to suffer with terrible lower back pain. I drove Audi's for man, many years, 90q, WRq, 20vq so all very similar driving positions. When I stopped driving the 'small' Audi's and bought a large 4x4 the LBP disappeared within weeks and I have had no serious twinges for about 4 years.

Could it be your car and the driving position?

[anonymous-user]

Cooky said:

So, you're getting shooting pains down through yer bum and down yer leg, yer calf(top) feels like its constantly twisted and you get occasional pins and needles in yer ankle/toes...am I right?

I never got the shooting pains down the legs, probably why the doc never referred me (i believe that this is the standard sign of a disk problem.)

Instead I get a constant lower back pain, limited mobility, and every now and again I get completely polaxed and am unable to move an inch without excruciating pain (this is when I end up in A&E).

The MRI obviously shows that my L4/L5 disk is fked and that the disk is bulging, but I don't know what the solution to this ailment is !

[968]

No you won't die, but you need to be referred to a spinal specialist, for them to consider whether you'd benefit from surgery. Personally, I've never been in favour of Orthopaedic spinal surgeons, and would normally prefer a neurosurgeon, who specializes in spinal surgery. Get your GP to refer to one of those.

[anonymous-user]

jshell said:

I'm no doc, obviously, but due to my height I used to suffer with terrible lower back pain. I drove Audi's for man, many years, 90q, WRq, 20vq so all very similar driving positions. When I stopped driving the 'small' Audi's and bought a large 4x4 the LBP disappeared within weeks and I have had no serious twinges for about 4 years.

Could it be your car and the driving position?

Driving doesn't help, but I don't think this is the cause for me (I only drive around 4000 miles a year !)

[anonymous-user]

968 said:

No you won't die, but you need to be referred to a spinal specialist, for them to consider whether you'd benefit from surgery. Personally, I've never been in favour of Orthopaedic spinal surgeons, and would normally prefer a neurosurgeon, who specializes in spinal surgery. Get your GP to refer to one of those.

So surgery would look to be the way to cure this then? (bugger)

[jjcc]

ultimate solution is an operation to remove the bits of disc which have bulged out and are causing the pain as they sit on the nerves usually causing the sciatic pain down the leg/s. Is your pain really just in the lower back even when at worst?
Treat the symptoms not the results of the MRI, most people would show bulging discs.
I had a discectomy a year and a half ago. L4/5 disc is the common one to go. Helped alot but you need alot of physio exercises in conjunction with the op to strengthen your core muscles which will support your lower back.
Good luck, It's agony like no other

[Cooky]

Bandit said:

Cooky said:

So, you're getting shooting pains down through yer bum and down yer leg, yer calf(top) feels like its constantly twisted and you get occasional pins and needles in yer ankle/toes...am I right?

I never got the shooting pains down the legs, probably why the doc never referred me (i believe that this is the standard sign of a disk problem.)

Instead I get a constant lower back pain, limited mobility, and every now and again I get completely poleaxed and am unable to move an inch without excruciating pain (this is when I end up in A&E).

The MRI obviously shows that my L4/L5 disk is fked and that the disk is bulging, but I don't know what the solution to this ailment is !

I had an 80% discectomy at L4/5 some ten years ago. It was diagnosed as 'degenerative disc disease' (or as you correctly stated....fked disc) I have benefited massively from the surgery but now have a few niggles at L3/4 and L5/S1. The back pain is bearable now since dropping a good few lbs.
As suggested seek a Neurosurgeon and try to avoid the Orthopedic (butcher) route. I believe the newer laser 'keyhole' surgery is pretty good too.

Good Luck

[996 sps]

Bandit said:

968 said:

No you won't die, but you need to be referred to a spinal specialist, for them to consider whether you'd benefit from surgery. Personally, I've never been in favour of Orthopaedic spinal surgeons, and would normally prefer a neurosurgeon, who specializes in spinal surgery. Get your GP to refer to one of those.

So surgery would look to be the way to cure this then? (bugger)

Avoid surgery at all costs mate, trust me on that, they will go for a discetomy and it can prove nasty, i'm not trying to scare you and I have ssen loads of success with this, but have seen 1 feck up and it was life changing. I'm not a clinician but work in rehabilitation alongside physios, if you need to lose weight or loads of ab/back extensor work with core and mobility, try pilates as well, but if your not getting any referred pain down the leg avoid surgery.

[mark69sheer]

Bandit said:

Any quacks in the house?

After 3 years of lower back pain and a few hospital visits (A&E) my useless GP finally sent me for an MRI scan.

I got the results back today and wanted to hear opinions from any doctors that may be on PH before I head to see my GP next week (who will most likely fob me off again).

From the MRI report:

At L3/4 level no abnormality is seen.
At L4/5 level there is disc degeneration with a substantial right central disc protrusion and possible right L5 nerve root pressure.
At L5/S1 level no abnormality is seen.
No bone abnormality is seen and there is normal vertebral alignment.
The distal cord appears normal.
The foramina appear adequate at all levels.
Impression: L4/L5 disc legion ans described above.

So, am i going to die then? Whats the recommended treatment?

I've been doing the old physio/exercises/stretches/core work etc for three years. I do get periods where things seem better but in the end I always break down again.

Thanks for any (medical) advice!

Edited by Bandit on Saturday 20th December 08:31

I have had back pain all my life since 18 yrs old.
Your diagnosis is one I would be delighted to have as my own as my spine is far worse , however lets get some basics out of the way first that will hopefully help you lead as normal a life as possible.
You must realise that you have to constantly consider your back.
The MOST important thing is this...
Bedtime is the worst.
You must give up any hope of ever having a lie in on a morning and restrict the amount of time you spend in bed to a minimum.
When you go to bed if your back has flared up then you must.. get a long bath towel , hold one corner and twist the towel into a long 'rope'. Tie this around your waist before going to bed. This will retain your spines natural shape and not allow any slumping to put pressure on any weak discs.
I have disc degeneration on 10 of my discs and disc protrusions of several discs on and off leading at various times to pain , numbness and even loss of feeling. As soon as the docs tell me that an operation would be a better than 50/50 success then I will be in there but as long as they tell me it could be the same or worse I will avoid the knife.

Rule number 1. Press ups fine , Sit ups avoid like the plague even if your OH moans about your beer belly.
You will never know what caused your latest spasm or relapse as the effects usually creep up a day ot two later so here's a pointer to what I avoid..and what despite a bad back I can cheerily do without too much trouble.

Avoid the missionary position. Get your lass on top...!!
Avoid any jolting. wether thats jumping the last few stairs down or going on an exercise trampoline!!
Be careful around steps . . that time you miss one and land with a stiff leg and back could be a disaster.
Exercise great , overdoing it bad.
I ski regulary but don't attempt any jumps , The skiing itself is no problem
I race karts. This one is not too hot to be honest and usually ends up with a week of spasm but I couldn't do without the enjoyment so I take what care I can like getting help with lifting etc and being easy in and out of the seat with no sharp movements.
If you have kids unfortunately you have to avoid the wrestling and climbing about and carrying your kids. I went to a Girls Aloud concert recently with my wife and ten year old daughter and the crowd was so dense that my daughter couldn't see and asked me to pick her up.
I didn't and to my shame two ladies next to me took it in turns to hold my daughter up to see. They were complete strangers and I was extremely grateful to them however you MUST not ever feel pressured into comprimising your back. It's easy for anyone to stick the label on you that you are lazy and I have no doubt those ladies talked about me in less than pleasant terms on their drive home but YOU are the one who would suffer not them.
Painkillers . . . avoid aspirin , ibroprofin etc etc as your stomach lining will get damaged.
I find co-codomols at around £2 a packet to be as good as anything I have ever had prescription or otherwise.
Watch how many you take and while the reccommended dose is often nowhere near enough to help the pain do keep track on how many you are taking.
I have had liver problems present in routine blood tests and doctors have taken me to one side and asked about my heavy drinking . . I am a practical teetotaller with perhaps a comsumption of 3 units a week in the shape of the odd small bottle of becks with an evening meal. The liver function damage comes from taking paracetamol based painkillers which the cocodamol are. So do beware and do take care how many you take.
I can't condone this but I usually take 3 every four hours rather than the one to two recommended. That is as far over the reccommended I would ever go and that doesn't effect my liver but then size and personal metabolic rate will have an effect so that would be good for some and not for others.
Any more questions please ask,

and no you won't die and you can still lead a full life. Its certainly not the life I would have taken by choice as it ended my aspirations as a professional athlete.

Good luck

[mark69sheer]

Oh I saw the head neuro surgeon at Leeds and he suggested an Xstop which he was prepared to do for me immediately. I declined as my back was currently bearable and said I would be back for one as soon as I had a major relapse.

http://www.xstopspacer.com/xstop.aspx

Edited by mark69sheer on Saturday 20th December 09:38

[jshell]

Bandit said:

jshell said:

I'm no doc, obviously, but due to my height I used to suffer with terrible lower back pain. I drove Audi's for man, many years, 90q, WRq, 20vq so all very similar driving positions. When I stopped driving the 'small' Audi's and bought a large 4x4 the LBP disappeared within weeks and I have had no serious twinges for about 4 years.

Could it be your car and the driving position?

Driving doesn't help, but I don't think this is the cause for me (I only drive around 4000 miles a year !)

Possibly not, and really not to labour the point, but I was on 4k/yr too and took me over 10 years to realise that the driving position was doing it. Didn't get the LB pain in the car, but well afterwards. Would still not have figured it out if I hadn't moved to the big-bus 4x4!

Anyway, last post, hope you get something sorted, it's horrible!!!

[anonymous-user]

jjcc said:

Is your pain really just in the lower back even when at worst?

I've never had shooting pains down the legs which is what doctors always ask me about.
Its normally a dull ache in my lower back with sharp pains when i have bad weeks.

When it gets really bad my back spasms with the slightest movements and I literally cannot move an inch without the worst pain you can imagine (drops you to the floor and you scream like a baby). When I was in the US I was in ER with this, they gave me two morphine injections (over the course of around 6 hours) and it didn't even touch the pain. They accused me of being on other drugs (stimulants) as they couldn't understand why I was still in such agony

[anonymous-user]

mark69sheer said:

I can't condone this but I usually take 3 every four hours rather than the one to two recommended. That is as far over the reccommended I would ever go and that doesn't effect my liver but then size and personal metabolic rate will have an effect so that would be good for some and not for others.
Any more questions please ask,

and no you won't die and you can still lead a full life. Its certainly not the life I would have taken by choice as it ended my aspirations as a professional athlete.

Good luck

Jesus, that sounds terrible - I should stop moaning like a baby !
Thanks for the advice and I hope things improve for you.

[HRG]

1) Buy a good bed, you can get a sixty day trial on a Tempur.
2) Loose any excess weight.
3) Swim if it's medically allowed.

[mark69sheer]

Bandit said:

jjcc said:

Is your pain really just in the lower back even when at worst?

I've never had shooting pains down the legs which is what doctors always ask me about.
Its normally a dull ache in my lower back with sharp pains when i have bad weeks.

When it gets really bad my back spasms with the slightest movements and I literally cannot move an inch without the worst pain you can imagine (drops you to the floor and you scream like a baby). When I was in the US I was in ER with this, they gave me two morphine injections (over the course of around 6 hours) and it didn't even touch the pain. They accused me of being on other drugs (stimulants) as they couldn't understand why I was still in such agony

Fortunately and ironically the worse your back becomes the easier the pain will get. I went through a really bad three months once where I was in continual pain and couldn't find any position at all to sleep in except for on all fours like a dog. Of course as soon as I fell asleep I fell over and woke up with the pain so I had to spend my evening just walking. Instead of going to bed I used to just walk the country lanes where I lived.
Now I do get pain but its more of an ache than a sharp pain like before but more worryingly for the docs I get numbness and loss of feeling.

[mark69sheer]

Bandit said:

mark69sheer said:

I can't condone this but I usually take 3 every four hours rather than the one to two recommended. That is as far over the reccommended I would ever go and that doesn't effect my liver but then size and personal metabolic rate will have an effect so that would be good for some and not for others.
Any more questions please ask,

and no you won't die and you can still lead a full life. Its certainly not the life I would have taken by choice as it ended my aspirations as a professional athlete.

Good luck

Jesus, that sounds terrible - I should stop moaning like a baby !
Thanks for the advice and I hope things improve for you.

Anyone suffering back problems gets my 100% sympathy and your problems are real . Non sufferers just don't comprehend. Probably too late for any improvement for me. I am being suggested procedures normally carried out on 70yr olds and I am 49 I have tha spine of an octagenerian and still hopefully 30 more years to libe with it.