Just opened a pension statement
Discussion
Lots of people from Japan invested for the 'long term'
"As if the poor Japanese investor hadn't had misery enough! He's been beaten up for the last 18 years. He was whacked when Japan, Inc. went bust in 1990. He was smacked when stocks fell 70%- 90% during the '90s. He was racked with pain when property collapsed to as little as one-tenth its late '80s value. He was starved for yield when the Japanese Central Bank dropped its policy rate to zero and kept it there for six years. He was tortured over an entire decade as his government wasted $1 trillion trying to force him to spend and invest. And he was hung by his thumbs in four separate recessions. You'd think Mr. Market would have the grace not to kick him when he was down.
When the sun rose on 2008, the typical Japanese was still in a fetal position, with his head down and his wallet closed up tightly. But along came the sell-off of 2008 - and he got the boot again. The Nikkei fell another 50%. The Japanese investor who bought stocks in 1982 when he was 35 years old is now 61…and his stocks are not worth a penny more!"
Now that couldn't happen to us could it.
"As if the poor Japanese investor hadn't had misery enough! He's been beaten up for the last 18 years. He was whacked when Japan, Inc. went bust in 1990. He was smacked when stocks fell 70%- 90% during the '90s. He was racked with pain when property collapsed to as little as one-tenth its late '80s value. He was starved for yield when the Japanese Central Bank dropped its policy rate to zero and kept it there for six years. He was tortured over an entire decade as his government wasted $1 trillion trying to force him to spend and invest. And he was hung by his thumbs in four separate recessions. You'd think Mr. Market would have the grace not to kick him when he was down.
When the sun rose on 2008, the typical Japanese was still in a fetal position, with his head down and his wallet closed up tightly. But along came the sell-off of 2008 - and he got the boot again. The Nikkei fell another 50%. The Japanese investor who bought stocks in 1982 when he was 35 years old is now 61…and his stocks are not worth a penny more!"
Now that couldn't happen to us could it.
I'm lucky in that my pension is funded 6% by my employer, a further 6% (by choice) by me and then matched up to the 6% again by my employer. So 18% gross contribution a month for only a 6% gross outlay by me. If it weren't for the company contributions I wouldn't go near a pension. You can get just the same sort of returns by investing direcly into the funds with the added benefit that it's your money to do with what you want.
ShadownINja said:
Aren't these pros supposed to know what they're doing? 
they do .... the get 6% upfront and 1.5% a year trailing commission on many investment products : thats a 21% return for them over 10 years (on someone elses money) - much better than the MINUS 15% or so the gullible investor ( sorry : valued customer ) has received over the past 10 years.
Edited by alfaman on Saturday 20th December 15:19
interesting comparison with Japan - except that their hugh public sector deficit (200% of GDP, feel free to wiki-correct me if i'm wrong) is equally matched by their trade surpluses and substantial savings accounts of individuals. whereas we have brown' huge mortgage, overdraft account (and several cars bough with finance) on one hand, with kerry katona representing the financial health of individuals.
Road Pest said:
I froze payments into mine a while ago this year. Didn't seem worth putting money into it at the moment and my statement confirmed that.
Sound financial sense that. Buy your units at the top of the market and then stop buying them when they get cheap. Assuming your risk is spread and you have a good few years to go, right now is an excellent time to top up the pension fund.alfaman said:
ShadownINja said:
Aren't these pros supposed to know what they're doing?
they do .... the get 6% upfront and 1.5% a year trailing commission on many investment products : thats a 21% return for them over 10 years (on someone elses money) - much better than the MINUS 15% or so the gullible investor ( sorry : valued customer ) has received over the past 10 years. Fair point!ShadownINja said:
alfaman said:
ShadownINja said:
Aren't these pros supposed to know what they're doing?
they do .... the get 6% upfront and 1.5% a year trailing commission on many investment products : thats a 21% return for them over 10 years (on someone elses money) - much better than the MINUS 15% or so the gullible investor ( sorry : valued customer ) has received over the past 10 years. Fair point!Edited by Broccers on Saturday 20th December 15:59
Fittster said:
.....When the sun rose on 2008, the typical Japanese was still in a fetal position, with his head down and his wallet closed up tightly. But along came the sell-off of 2008 - and he got the boot again. The Nikkei fell another 50%. The Japanese investor who bought stocks in 1982 when he was 35 years old is now 61…and his stocks are not worth a penny more!"
Now that couldn't happen to us could it.
Nope. Not this puppy. I never invested more than a couple of quid in anything when I was younger. Sometimes I worry about it, but most of the time I say 'Thank fvck'. I'd be real bitter now if a lifetime of contributions into a pension turned to poo because some baankers are waankers.Now that couldn't happen to us could it.
Better not to have invested at all, than to have invested and lost the bloody lot.
deckster said:
Road Pest said:
I froze payments into mine a while ago this year. Didn't seem worth putting money into it at the moment and my statement confirmed that.
Sound financial sense that. Buy your units at the top of the market and then stop buying them when they get cheap. Assuming your risk is spread and you have a good few years to go, right now is an excellent time to top up the pension fund.I set up a pension about a year ago and I put in the maximum allowable over that period. Well it's gone down by 20%!
However, I'm taking the view that had I have paid myself the equivalent amount of money then I would have paid (probably) 50% Tax (including NI). As such, I still think I'm 30% up on the deal despite my pension taking a right royal battering. That's my way of keeping my sanity!
However, I'm taking the view that had I have paid myself the equivalent amount of money then I would have paid (probably) 50% Tax (including NI). As such, I still think I'm 30% up on the deal despite my pension taking a right royal battering. That's my way of keeping my sanity!
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