Requesting service history invoices from main dealer
Discussion
Hi
I recently bought a 2004 S-Type diesel Auto, its got a full Jag s/history from new. It's been serviced by Sturgess Leicester Jaguar. I was wandering if it is possible to request the itemised invoices that were carried out on each service interval so I can see what was carried out on each service and if any problems or issues arised. Can I request this from Jaguar UK or do I need to contact the dealer where it was serviced from.
Second question the car has started developing the dreaded 'Lurch' problem from the ZF auto box. I've read that a software reflash solves the problem. The car has covered 102,000 miles. Can you only get the reflash done from Jaguar, how much does it cost? Also I hear that the ZF gearbox is a 'sealed for life unit'. I've read that mercedes, BMW and other manufactures use the same box in some of their range and they recommend flushing and changing the oil in the gearbox, what are people's views on that? Does the diff oil ever get changed or is that a sealed unit?
Many thanks for reading.
I recently bought a 2004 S-Type diesel Auto, its got a full Jag s/history from new. It's been serviced by Sturgess Leicester Jaguar. I was wandering if it is possible to request the itemised invoices that were carried out on each service interval so I can see what was carried out on each service and if any problems or issues arised. Can I request this from Jaguar UK or do I need to contact the dealer where it was serviced from.
Second question the car has started developing the dreaded 'Lurch' problem from the ZF auto box. I've read that a software reflash solves the problem. The car has covered 102,000 miles. Can you only get the reflash done from Jaguar, how much does it cost? Also I hear that the ZF gearbox is a 'sealed for life unit'. I've read that mercedes, BMW and other manufactures use the same box in some of their range and they recommend flushing and changing the oil in the gearbox, what are people's views on that? Does the diff oil ever get changed or is that a sealed unit?
Many thanks for reading.
Jaguar claimed the gearbox and 'diff are sealed for life in order to reduce the routine maintainience costs and keep company accountants and prospective purchasers of a new car happy.
Sealed for life does not represent some great advance in component design, manufacturing or lubrication technology and actually is nothing more than a rather cynical triumph of Marketing over Engineering.
Changing the oils and fluids on a regular basis is essential if you want any car to last and continue to perform smoothly and quietly.
A gearbox oil change may even improve the shift quality to such an extent the lurching problem somtimes experienced dissapears. In any case IMO, there's little point is spending time and money on attempting to fix the lurch by loading software if the gearbox oil is degenerated and gone way out of spec - and at 100k it almost certainly will be.
Sealed for life does not represent some great advance in component design, manufacturing or lubrication technology and actually is nothing more than a rather cynical triumph of Marketing over Engineering.
Changing the oils and fluids on a regular basis is essential if you want any car to last and continue to perform smoothly and quietly.
A gearbox oil change may even improve the shift quality to such an extent the lurching problem somtimes experienced dissapears. In any case IMO, there's little point is spending time and money on attempting to fix the lurch by loading software if the gearbox oil is degenerated and gone way out of spec - and at 100k it almost certainly will be.
Jaguar steve said:
Sealed for life does not represent some great advance in component design, manufacturing or lubrication technology and actually is nothing more than a rather cynical triumph of Marketing over Engineering.
TrueIf sealed for life meens that the gearbox goes BANG after 100,000 miles then it was sealed for life.
Change the oil say every 50,000 miles and you should get 250,000 plus miles out of the gearbox
As regards 'box and diff oil changes, I have been thinking ahead and when this should be done with my S-Type. I've had a number of gearbox issues (reported elewhere in PH) and so that should be OK for the time being. After how many miles should it be done?
As for the diff, the oil has not been changed. After how many miles should this be done?
Will changing the oils, not being specified by Jag as necessary in the service schedules, invalidate my warranty?
Any ideas of the costs of each?
Are there any downsides to changing the oils?
R.
As for the diff, the oil has not been changed. After how many miles should this be done?
Will changing the oils, not being specified by Jag as necessary in the service schedules, invalidate my warranty?
Any ideas of the costs of each?
Are there any downsides to changing the oils?
R.
I'm hoping jaguar will provide me with the past service interval invoices so I can see what has been done at each service and whether the car has had any work carried out in relation to the gearbox. I am getting the fluids changed in the gearbox and diff in the new year just for peace of mind. Other than that the gear changes are ever so smooth for a 100,000 mile car and being a 1 owner from new whilst being serviced from the same garage has got to be a plus.
The Leaper said:
As regards 'box and diff oil changes, I have been thinking ahead and when this should be done with my S-Type. I've had a number of gearbox issues (reported elewhere in PH) and so that should be OK for the time being. After how many miles should it be done?
As for the diff, the oil has not been changed. After how many miles should this be done?
Will changing the oils, not being specified by Jag as necessary in the service schedules, invalidate my warranty?
Any ideas of the costs of each?
Are there any downsides to changing the oils?
R.
The reccomendation for the previous generation of XJ gearbox and 'diff oil changes was every 30k.As for the diff, the oil has not been changed. After how many miles should this be done?
Will changing the oils, not being specified by Jag as necessary in the service schedules, invalidate my warranty?
Any ideas of the costs of each?
Are there any downsides to changing the oils?
R.
I've changed my sealed for life 'box and 'diff oils every 25k.
I can't see how changing oil will invalidate the warranty especially if you get the main stealer to do it and there's no downside at all.
The upside is the peace of mind you get with a smooth, quiet running, properly maintained car that's far less likley to have have a gearbox or 'diff failure in the future - which with the price of replacements components, labour and the age of car it usually happens to often costs more than the car is worth.
Thanks, JS, I anticipated a comprehensive response from you!
The next service is due at 80,000 miles and I'll go for a diff oil change with the usual JMD I use at that time, and hope I've got the change done in time! The gearbox is around 15,000 since it was last out of the car so it looks like I can wait until the 90,000 miles service for that job. My plan has always been to keep this particular car indefinitely (assuming it's upkeep is manageable, of course) so oil changes are essential.
R.
The next service is due at 80,000 miles and I'll go for a diff oil change with the usual JMD I use at that time, and hope I've got the change done in time! The gearbox is around 15,000 since it was last out of the car so it looks like I can wait until the 90,000 miles service for that job. My plan has always been to keep this particular car indefinitely (assuming it's upkeep is manageable, of course) so oil changes are essential.
R.
Ah, well you've given me an excuse for cranking up my favourite rant....
If the 'diff is quiet on drive and overun and there's no clonks when taking up drive then it's OK to change the oil. When the noises start then it's too late for an oil change as the damage has already been done.
You're quite right IMO, to regard a Jaguar as a long term investment and spend some cash on preventative maintainence. I've seen loads of people buy a car they can't quite afford, skimp on maintainence and then when somthing serious goes wrong are forced to sell it for peanuts or scrap - and they usually go straight out and buy another overpriced, shagged out pile of crap. Do this three or four times and average the spend on cars out over several years and they'll be forking out, far far more than they would have done by buying a better example in the first place and looking after it properly.
I think the reduced scheduled maintainece requirements - not just on Jaguars either - are very bad news for the older secondhand car buyer. Regular fluid changes make all the difference to long term relibality and will save a fortune.
If the 'diff is quiet on drive and overun and there's no clonks when taking up drive then it's OK to change the oil. When the noises start then it's too late for an oil change as the damage has already been done.
You're quite right IMO, to regard a Jaguar as a long term investment and spend some cash on preventative maintainence. I've seen loads of people buy a car they can't quite afford, skimp on maintainence and then when somthing serious goes wrong are forced to sell it for peanuts or scrap - and they usually go straight out and buy another overpriced, shagged out pile of crap. Do this three or four times and average the spend on cars out over several years and they'll be forking out, far far more than they would have done by buying a better example in the first place and looking after it properly.
I think the reduced scheduled maintainece requirements - not just on Jaguars either - are very bad news for the older secondhand car buyer. Regular fluid changes make all the difference to long term relibality and will save a fortune.
JS,
Just for the record, I got my current S-Type 4.2 V8 SE just about 5 years ago. It was a demo car, 2 weeks old 14 miles on the clock. List it was around £39,500, and I was offerd it by a JMD I use for £30,000 and I got it for £28,500, which I thought was sensational at the time. Partly because of this I decided that I would keep it indefinitely on the basis that, financially, as long as running costs etc were OK, I had nothing much to lose. With current residuals there's no point in selling it anyway.
So far, aside from gearbox issues that the JMD and Jaguar UK have dealt with very well, I am very pleased with the car (it is my second S-Type V8). Done around 74,000 miles so far. Just extended the warranty another year.
R.
Just for the record, I got my current S-Type 4.2 V8 SE just about 5 years ago. It was a demo car, 2 weeks old 14 miles on the clock. List it was around £39,500, and I was offerd it by a JMD I use for £30,000 and I got it for £28,500, which I thought was sensational at the time. Partly because of this I decided that I would keep it indefinitely on the basis that, financially, as long as running costs etc were OK, I had nothing much to lose. With current residuals there's no point in selling it anyway.
So far, aside from gearbox issues that the JMD and Jaguar UK have dealt with very well, I am very pleased with the car (it is my second S-Type V8). Done around 74,000 miles so far. Just extended the warranty another year.
R.
The Leaper said:
JS,
Just for the record, I got my current S-Type 4.2 V8 SE just about 5 years ago. It was a demo car, 2 weeks old 14 miles on the clock. List it was around £39,500, and I was offerd it by a JMD I use for £30,000 and I got it for £28,500, which I thought was sensational at the time. Partly because of this I decided that I would keep it indefinitely on the basis that, financially, as long as running costs etc were OK, I had nothing much to lose. With current residuals there's no point in selling it anyway.
So far, aside from gearbox issues that the JMD and Jaguar UK have dealt with very well, I am very pleased with the car (it is my second S-Type V8). Done around 74,000 miles so far. Just extended the warranty another year.
R.
There you are then. You bought effectively a brand new car for around 25% off list price - senastional indeed. If you take care of it and keep it for 10 years, allowing a grand or so a year for servicing tax and insurance then give it away for nothing, your S Type will have cost you about £75 a week. Just for the record, I got my current S-Type 4.2 V8 SE just about 5 years ago. It was a demo car, 2 weeks old 14 miles on the clock. List it was around £39,500, and I was offerd it by a JMD I use for £30,000 and I got it for £28,500, which I thought was sensational at the time. Partly because of this I decided that I would keep it indefinitely on the basis that, financially, as long as running costs etc were OK, I had nothing much to lose. With current residuals there's no point in selling it anyway.
So far, aside from gearbox issues that the JMD and Jaguar UK have dealt with very well, I am very pleased with the car (it is my second S-Type V8). Done around 74,000 miles so far. Just extended the warranty another year.
R.
I saw plenty of my customers when I was in the trade spend a lot more than that a week on running, repairing and replacing a succession of bland Eurohatches.
Not even the most seriously deluded Ecomentalist would claim manufacturing and scrapping say, three or four small cars is better than keeping a larger one going for as long as possible and there's no need to ask what most people would prefer to drive either....
Edited by Jaguar steve on Monday 22 December 10:47
I've looked around on the web for specialist automatic gearbox centre's near me (Northampton)and this one http://www.automaticgearbox.biz/ seems to be the one where I think I will get the gearbox oil, filter and diff oil changed. Reading at other threads people recommend I use the Esso gearbox oil that would of been used by ZF when the gearbox left the factory. Just need a quote now.
There's been a number of threads on PH recently about the need or not for the Esso 71141 oil but the overall concensus is it's essential.
It's very expensive compared to normal Dexron III. Google it and see if the garage will agree to you supplying your own - you'll need around 8-10 litres.
North Wilts Lubricants - v helpfull according to other PH'ers, and TrAchem might be worth a look
It's very expensive compared to normal Dexron III. Google it and see if the garage will agree to you supplying your own - you'll need around 8-10 litres.
North Wilts Lubricants - v helpfull according to other PH'ers, and TrAchem might be worth a look
Edited by Jaguar steve on Monday 22 December 10:58
Thanks Steve for the info, North Wilts Lubricants looks very promising for the price so looks like I will get the oil from there. I was also looking into changing the diff oil aswell, is there a preferred manufactures oil for the diff. The best quote I've had for changing the gearbox oil and filter is £150 inc VAT. I phoned main jag dealer to be curious and they quoted £260 and said I have to get it done there as its something to do with getting the oil temperature right, what do you think about that?
Sand1 said:
Thanks Steve for the info, North Wilts Lubricants looks very promising for the price so looks like I will get the oil from there. I was also looking into changing the diff oil aswell, is there a preferred manufactures oil for the diff. The best quote I've had for changing the gearbox oil and filter is £150 inc VAT. I phoned main jag dealer to be curious and they quoted £260 and said I have to get it done there as its something to do with getting the oil temperature right, what do you think about that?
I'd fill the 'diff with a full synthetic API GL5 75/90. The 'diff also carries all the shock loading from the rear suspension as well as the massive torque from the engine and needs all the protection it can get. I use Morris lubricants oil in the 'diff but that's been my choice of gear oil for ages based on some stability and load testing under shear conditions from a long time ago.
If the S Type box is essentially the same as the 5 speed ZF in the XJ - I think it is but check with sombody who knows for sure as there may be subtle differences in maintainece procedures - the gearbox oil level can only be set correctly when the 'box is cold - much less than 50deg - the 'box has to be filled to the final level with the engine running which heats the oil up very quickly so you only have a couple of mins from a cold start to get it right. I'd make sure anybody working on the box knows exactly what they are doing otherwise you may have shift and drivability problems occuring if the level is not spot on. Unless you have faith that the independent knows what they are doing then just for once it might be a case of lining the main stealers pocket with a few more beer tokens.
If you're reasonably skilled you could do both the jobs yourself. You need a vacuum pump to suck the old 'diff oil out - there's no drain plug and it's a two person job changing the box oil with a concoction of hoses and header tank - ideally done over a couple of days as it takes some doing to get the final level just right and you'll need time to allow the box to cool in between filling and level checks. If you do DIY make sure the sump, your tools and fingers are spotlessly clean - any crap in a automatic box is usually fatal, make sure the car is perfectly level otherwise the filler and level check plug gives a false indication, and obviously take real care with axle stands and supports when you're underneath.
Edited by Jaguar steve on Monday 22 December 20:39
Cheers Steve, I think I will bite the bullet and go to the stealers for the gearbox oil change and filter as I'm not that skilled and confident in doing the job myself. Does the diff oil need to be changed at the stealers or can an independant change it with no problem. If I get it done at the stealers will they use the Esso gearbox oil as a matter of course or shall I get it myself and provide it (it might be cheaper if I get it myself as I bet they will charge a fortune for it)
I've booked in the the S-Type at my main dealer in Northampton. £210 all in for gearbox oil and filter change with the software reflash, not a bad price I thought. I've also found out where the water is leaking in to the boot. I noticed a tear/hole in the boot seal near the corner of the nearside light cluster. Does anyone know how much a new boot seal is from Stealer, I was going to ask them to fit a new seal when its in on Wednesday. They say they need the car in overnight so its cold when they do the oil change.
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