Barack Obama/Lewis Hamilton.....Black Role Models....

[root 666]

I was wondering what criteria is used (and by whom) that results in a person of mixed/dual heritage (or whatever this week's PC term may be) beginning referred to as "Black"

When a prominent figure (not necessarily either of the above) is the product of a union between two genetic lines, one exclusively black the other exclusively white, the media invariably refers to them as black. Why?

Beyonce Knowles is "black" as is Halle Berry so clearly skin colour is an irrelevance.

So who decides and how?

[ironictwist]

root 666 said:

the media invariably refers to them as black.

I think you've answered your own question there...How they do it, I'm not sure! If we break it down, you could call him "coloured" but then that doesn't have as much impact.

F1'S 1ST COLOURED CHAMPION!

Not quite the same ring...But if they then say:

F1'S 1ST BLACK CHAMPION!

It just has something more to it...Probably related to the struggle of african americans over the years, folk choosing that term to make it obvious to everyone else how the world has changed. It's a bit odd really.

Imagine if people called Lewis Hamilton white because of his mother? There would be anarchy!

ETA: His mum was white right? Or did I imagine that bit?

Edited by ironictwist on Friday 26th December 02:44

[tomTVR]

Mixed race people always seem to identify themselves as black for some reason, maybe we (whites) are inferior?

[Celt]

tomTVR said:

Mixed race people always seem to identify themselves as black for some reason, maybe we (whites) are inferior?

Yeah, I think black people generally are sort of proud to be black whereas white people just dont seem to notice the colour of there skin.

[welshbikerduck]

The only people that make skin colour an issue are those that refer to it. Not meaning the OP, i am talking about the media when they announce that there is now a "black" F1 champion or a "black" president. They never say a blue,green,brown or what ever eye colour F1 champion so why make an issue of it?

I don't think the blacks do them selves any favours when they latch on to the fact that a black guy has become president, it almost reinforces that they are surprised. There is no legislation or anything else to prevent a man of any colour becoming a president or an F1 champion. All it takes is hard work which are qualities not restricted to any colour of skin. The way i see it someone has to be an F1 champion, why can't it be a black guy?

[Corpulent Tosser]

tomTVR said:

Mixed race people always seem to identify themselves as black for some reason, maybe we (whites) are inferior?

I believe it goes back to the days of apartheid in the US and SA, if you were not white you were a second class citizen regardless of how much or little black there was in you, so anyone of mixed race was regarded as non-white, or black.

Maybe we should refer to Hamilton as the first non-white F1 champion

At least that is my take on it.

[CommanderJameson]

Does it matter?

It's transparently obvious to anyone with a whit of sense that both Obama and Hamilton are black.

The criterion in use seems to be the question "are they black?" as asked by a reasonably intelligent individual.

What else would you call them? Half-caste? Mul atto?

I was half expecting to read "some of my best friends are..." and "I'm not a racist but..." in the OP.

[AUDIHenry]

That's easy, isn't it?

If they look black, they are black. If they look white, they are white. If they look yellow, they're yellow. Or is that too politically incorrect?

[Number 5]

ironictwist said:

root 666 said:

the media invariably refers to them as black.

I think you've answered your own question there...How they do it, I'm not sure! If we break it down, you could call him "coloured" but then that doesn't have as much impact.

F1'S 1ST COLOURED CHAMPION

Edited by ironictwist on Friday 26th December 02:44

Using the phrase coloured is wrong, white is a colour, black and white are both coloured people, I don't know why it matters anyway.

I would recomend that this thread is locked before some idiot comes along and says "I'm not a racist but......." it's seriously In danger of maybe offending someone!

[eccles]

root 666 said:

I was wondering what criteria is used (and by whom) that results in a person of mixed/dual heritage (or whatever this week's PC term may be) beginning referred to as "Black"

When a prominent figure (not necessarily either of the above) is the product of a union between two genetic lines, one exclusively black the other exclusively white, the media invariably refers to them as black. Why?

Beyonce Knowles is "black" as is Halle Berry so clearly skin colour is an irrelevance.

So who decides and how?

You may notice that the majority of 'black' people who are big media stars are what i'd call 'acceptably black'. In reality this usually means they are on the lighter side of black with facial features that are more white than black. Yes, there are exceptions, but most of the people mentioned in this post so far are more beige than black, with quite caucasion features.

[Brown and Boris]

I think it is self defined but as outsiders all we can do is make our our minds up. It only really matters in terms of the meaning it carries. For example, in terms of Obama it is that the US was willing to vote for him given the past.

As far as LH is concerned I have never heard anyone other than the popular (ie tabloid) media refer to his skin colour because frankly it is irrelvant except to a small group of inbred Spanish people. I have never seen him give interviews to the 'Black Press' which suggests he to seem skin colour as irrelevant. But if black kids see him as black, and are motivated by what he has achieved through graft, dedication and family support that's great by me. Of course sport is often the great leveller because you can either do it, or you can't, unlike other jobs where whether your face fits can influence whther you succed (in either direction).

[thinfourth2]

Ah but if you call them black then you are a racist

Go figure

[Corpulent Tosser]

thinfourth2 said:

Ah but if you call them black then you are a racist

Go figure

No sorry I can't figure that, how is calling a black person black racist, and why would you think that anyone doing so would be regarded as racist ?

[Simpo Two]

If skin colour is unimportant you do wonder why people bang on about it so much - especially those wh champion equality...

I chuckled when Obama called himself a 'mutt' - at least he has it in perspective.




Of course if I'd called him a mutt it'd be racist

[Streetrod]

welshbikerduck said:

The only people that make skin colour an issue are those that refer to it. Not meaning the OP, i am talking about the media when they announce that there is now a "black" F1 champion or a "black" president. They never say a blue,green,brown or what ever eye colour F1 champion so why make an issue of it?

I don't think the blacks do them selves any favours when they latch on to the fact that a black guy has become president, it almost reinforces that they are surprised. There is no legislation or anything else to prevent a man of any colour becoming a president or an F1 champion. All it takes is hard work which are qualities not restricted to any colour of skin. The way i see it someone has to be an F1 champion, why can't it be a black guy?

First let me lay out my stand here. I am "Black" the son Jamaican parents who came to this country back in 1956. I am not black black, more coffee coloured, my brothers are darker. My partner is a white New Zealander and we have two young boys, one is very pale, very few people would guess that he had a black dad and my youngest is a very pale coffee colour.

To say that colour is not an issue is naive in the extreme and looks to make a mockery of the whole civil rights movement. What Obama has done in the US is very clever, he never campaigned as the "Black" candidate because he new that would never work. He looked to market himself as a person who could work across the racial divide and appeal to offer a new direction in American politics that the US was crying out for, in some ways he was very much like Kennedy and it worked.

As for Lewis he has done the same as Tiger Woods. He has entered into a sport that has had no real black presence at all and has dominated. It’s not that long ago that some golf clubs would not allow back members. Much as we would all love to believe that colour is not an issue to some people it always will be.

When I travel on business to South Africa or some parts of the States I can still feel the tension that some people have towards me.

And yes as Black people we are surprised that Obama won, not because we did not think that as black people that one of us had the ability to become president but because we never imagined that the US were ever going to be ready to elect a black man in our life times.

Children with mixed parents have tended to be labelled as black by society because a lot of them are darker and society loves to put people in pigeon holes. These kids tend to gravitate to other blacks because they are more accepted within that group

It was only 45 years ago that that we had to ride at the back of the bus, or have to put up with signs saying "No Blacks" So when we see our people making these leaps forward we will celebrate because their success has been built on the backs of those that have gone and suffered before.

When my kids are older I will tell them where they have come from and hope they will be as proud of their White as well as their Black heritage.

So Welshbikerduck, before you make the sort of statements above make sure look back on history of black people and what they have gone through. Your comments are not raciest by any means just a little naive

[V8mate]

AUDIHenry said:

That's easy, isn't it?

If they look black, they are black. If they look white, they are white. If they look yellow, they're yellow. Or is that too politically incorrect?

If they're girls, you could always refer to the fact that they're all pink on the inside!

[elster]

Simpo Two said:

If skin colour is unimportant you do wonder why people bang on about it so much - especially those wh champion equality...

I chuckled when Obama called himself a 'mutt' - at least he has it in perspective.




Of course if I'd called him a mutt it'd be racist

Maybe he means he is just dumb and drools a lot?

Edited by elster on Friday 26th December 19:15

[turbobloke]

Lewis is leagues ahead as a role model.

Any modern politician is fighting an uphill battle to be considered a role model, snake oil salesmen types such as Obama more than most.

[Allanv]

All i see is 2 humans winning at what they do best at..

I see no colour or race as we ALL belong to the human race nothing more.

Granted the colour of ones skin has made some people targets in the past but the past is the past and should be left there where it belongs. we have all been slaves to someone at some point in history.

It doesn't make it right but we have to move on or we will stay in the past.

forget race creed or colour or religion we are all humans the faster people remember that then the better the world will be.

[tomTVR]

Allanv said:

All i see is 2 humans winning at what they do best at..

I see no colour or race as we ALL belong to the human race nothing more..

Apart from the fact that everyone is making such a big deal about them because they are black.

Also Obama wouldn't have won if he wasn't black.

Sadly it does make a difference.