Human Evolution
Discussion
We've crawled up from the slime of creation and through thousands of years have developed the ability to walk upright, to see, hear, touch, smell, communicate by speech and numerous other skills we now take for granted.
We have evolved to the point now where we can control the world around us, adapt our surroundings and tools so life is that easy nature cannot keep up with our evolutionary progress.
So, my question. Is there another stage of natural human evolution, and if so, what would it be? Psychic communication? Telekinesis? Ability to fly? Or maybe nature will realise we have evolved beyond its natural system and out next evolution will be sterility. The end of humanity if you like.
Discuss.
We have evolved to the point now where we can control the world around us, adapt our surroundings and tools so life is that easy nature cannot keep up with our evolutionary progress.
So, my question. Is there another stage of natural human evolution, and if so, what would it be? Psychic communication? Telekinesis? Ability to fly? Or maybe nature will realise we have evolved beyond its natural system and out next evolution will be sterility. The end of humanity if you like.
Discuss.
For me, the fact that we now have the capability to mould and adapt to the environment we live in through the use of technology and thought, means that the physical evolution of homo sapiens has stalled.
There are some changes occurring, such as the increase in height over the last century or so, but this I feel is due more to a higher quality of living than any evolutionary development.
Ultimately, evolution can only really occur if genetic changes bring about an advantage, and the advantage allows a greater reproductive success, therefore slowly but surely ensuring that all individuals of subsequent generations have the genetic changes. As our society and population is so large, so disparate, and so mobile, I do not think this will happen....
The next stage for humanity will be through the use of technology, probably IMHO mental augmentation using carbon nanotubes, caused by, and bringing about, fundamental changes in the way we understand the universe and it's physical processes.
Of course, if a truly sentient, broad spectrum AI were to be created, that would bring about huge changes as well...
There are some changes occurring, such as the increase in height over the last century or so, but this I feel is due more to a higher quality of living than any evolutionary development.
Ultimately, evolution can only really occur if genetic changes bring about an advantage, and the advantage allows a greater reproductive success, therefore slowly but surely ensuring that all individuals of subsequent generations have the genetic changes. As our society and population is so large, so disparate, and so mobile, I do not think this will happen....
The next stage for humanity will be through the use of technology, probably IMHO mental augmentation using carbon nanotubes, caused by, and bringing about, fundamental changes in the way we understand the universe and it's physical processes.
Of course, if a truly sentient, broad spectrum AI were to be created, that would bring about huge changes as well...
DaveL485 said:
We've crawled up from the slime of creation and through thousands of years have developed the ability to walk upright, to see, hear, touch, smell, communicate by speech and numerous other skills we now take for granted.
We have evolved to the point now where we can control the world around us, adapt our surroundings and tools so life is that easy nature cannot keep up with our evolutionary progress.
So, my question. Is there another stage of natural human evolution, and if so, what would it be? Psychic communication? Telekinesis? Ability to fly? Or maybe nature will realise we have evolved beyond its natural system and out next evolution will be sterility. The end of humanity if you like.
Discuss.
You been watching Heroes ?We have evolved to the point now where we can control the world around us, adapt our surroundings and tools so life is that easy nature cannot keep up with our evolutionary progress.
So, my question. Is there another stage of natural human evolution, and if so, what would it be? Psychic communication? Telekinesis? Ability to fly? Or maybe nature will realise we have evolved beyond its natural system and out next evolution will be sterility. The end of humanity if you like.
Discuss.
Sway said:
For me, the fact that we now have the capability to mould and adapt to the environment we live in through the use of technology and thought, means that the physical evolution of homo sapiens has stalled.
There are some changes occurring, such as the increase in height over the last century or so, but this I feel is due more to a higher quality of living than any evolutionary development.
Ultimately, evolution can only really occur if genetic changes bring about an advantage, and the advantage allows a greater reproductive success, therefore slowly but surely ensuring that all individuals of subsequent generations have the genetic changes. As our society and population is so large, so disparate, and so mobile, I do not think this will happen....
The next stage for humanity will be through the use of technology, probably IMHO mental augmentation using carbon nanotubes, caused by, and bringing about, fundamental changes in the way we understand the universe and it's physical processes.
Of course, if a truly sentient, broad spectrum AI were to be created, that would bring about huge changes as well...
I disagree, we're getting taller, fatter, world records for sport continue to get broken, intelligence (or the ability to apply learning) has improved.There are some changes occurring, such as the increase in height over the last century or so, but this I feel is due more to a higher quality of living than any evolutionary development.
Ultimately, evolution can only really occur if genetic changes bring about an advantage, and the advantage allows a greater reproductive success, therefore slowly but surely ensuring that all individuals of subsequent generations have the genetic changes. As our society and population is so large, so disparate, and so mobile, I do not think this will happen....
The next stage for humanity will be through the use of technology, probably IMHO mental augmentation using carbon nanotubes, caused by, and bringing about, fundamental changes in the way we understand the universe and it's physical processes.
Of course, if a truly sentient, broad spectrum AI were to be created, that would bring about huge changes as well...
rhinochopig said:
Sway said:
For me, the fact that we now have the capability to mould and adapt to the environment we live in through the use of technology and thought, means that the physical evolution of homo sapiens has stalled.
There are some changes occurring, such as the increase in height over the last century or so, but this I feel is due more to a higher quality of living than any evolutionary development.
Ultimately, evolution can only really occur if genetic changes bring about an advantage, and the advantage allows a greater reproductive success, therefore slowly but surely ensuring that all individuals of subsequent generations have the genetic changes. As our society and population is so large, so disparate, and so mobile, I do not think this will happen....
The next stage for humanity will be through the use of technology, probably IMHO mental augmentation using carbon nanotubes, caused by, and bringing about, fundamental changes in the way we understand the universe and it's physical processes.
Of course, if a truly sentient, broad spectrum AI were to be created, that would bring about huge changes as well...
I disagree, we're getting taller, fatter, world records for sport continue to get broken, intelligence (or the ability to apply learning) has improved.There are some changes occurring, such as the increase in height over the last century or so, but this I feel is due more to a higher quality of living than any evolutionary development.
Ultimately, evolution can only really occur if genetic changes bring about an advantage, and the advantage allows a greater reproductive success, therefore slowly but surely ensuring that all individuals of subsequent generations have the genetic changes. As our society and population is so large, so disparate, and so mobile, I do not think this will happen....
The next stage for humanity will be through the use of technology, probably IMHO mental augmentation using carbon nanotubes, caused by, and bringing about, fundamental changes in the way we understand the universe and it's physical processes.
Of course, if a truly sentient, broad spectrum AI were to be created, that would bring about huge changes as well...
Taller, well, I would suggest that this is caused by better nutrition when infant, and more time given to growth before the hard work of life really kicks in.
Fatter, simple, more food, of poorer quality. Not genetic...
Sporting records, again, a lot is due to better nutrition, better training, the rise of the professional athlete, and a far better understanding of the psychology of performing well.
Intelligence and the ability to apply learning, I would disagree with completely. Look around, I'm only 26, yet in my lifetime I've noticed a steady, progressive trend away from application of intelligence, to a society that rewards laziness, benchmarks everything against immaterial 'targets', and sheep like learning about the world. Certainly if the average intelligence is being increased, I see very little evidence that people can actually apply it outside of a narrow field of expertise. Standing on the shoulders of giants and moving the game along does not imply intelligence, merely continuation of the previous efforts. Good example is the profession of mechanic. My grandfather trained in the '40s, and learnt to repair, fix, and if necessary fabricate whatever was required to get the vehicle going again. How many 'fitters' have this ability, instead of relying on a troubleshooting manual that involves progressively replacing parts until the car is cured?
Sway said:
rhinochopig said:
Sway said:
For me, the fact that we now have the capability to mould and adapt to the environment we live in through the use of technology and thought, means that the physical evolution of homo sapiens has stalled.
There are some changes occurring, such as the increase in height over the last century or so, but this I feel is due more to a higher quality of living than any evolutionary development.
Ultimately, evolution can only really occur if genetic changes bring about an advantage, and the advantage allows a greater reproductive success, therefore slowly but surely ensuring that all individuals of subsequent generations have the genetic changes. As our society and population is so large, so disparate, and so mobile, I do not think this will happen....
The next stage for humanity will be through the use of technology, probably IMHO mental augmentation using carbon nanotubes, caused by, and bringing about, fundamental changes in the way we understand the universe and it's physical processes.
Of course, if a truly sentient, broad spectrum AI were to be created, that would bring about huge changes as well...
I disagree, we're getting taller, fatter, world records for sport continue to get broken, intelligence (or the ability to apply learning) has improved.There are some changes occurring, such as the increase in height over the last century or so, but this I feel is due more to a higher quality of living than any evolutionary development.
Ultimately, evolution can only really occur if genetic changes bring about an advantage, and the advantage allows a greater reproductive success, therefore slowly but surely ensuring that all individuals of subsequent generations have the genetic changes. As our society and population is so large, so disparate, and so mobile, I do not think this will happen....
The next stage for humanity will be through the use of technology, probably IMHO mental augmentation using carbon nanotubes, caused by, and bringing about, fundamental changes in the way we understand the universe and it's physical processes.
Of course, if a truly sentient, broad spectrum AI were to be created, that would bring about huge changes as well...
Taller, well, I would suggest that this is caused by better nutrition when infant, and more time given to growth before the hard work of life really kicks in.
Fatter, simple, more food, of poorer quality. Not genetic...
Sporting records, again, a lot is due to better nutrition, better training, the rise of the professional athlete, and a far better understanding of the psychology of performing well.
Intelligence and the ability to apply learning, I would disagree with completely. Look around, I'm only 26, yet in my lifetime I've noticed a steady, progressive trend away from application of intelligence, to a society that rewards laziness, benchmarks everything against immaterial 'targets', and sheep like learning about the world. Certainly if the average intelligence is being increased, I see very little evidence that people can actually apply it outside of a narrow field of expertise. Standing on the shoulders of giants and moving the game along does not imply intelligence, merely continuation of the previous efforts. Good example is the profession of mechanic. My grandfather trained in the '40s, and learnt to repair, fix, and if necessary fabricate whatever was required to get the vehicle going again. How many 'fitters' have this ability, instead of relying on a troubleshooting manual that involves progressively replacing parts until the car is cured?
Famous Graham said:
Sway said:
rhinochopig said:
Sway said:
For me, the fact that we now have the capability to mould and adapt to the environment we live in through the use of technology and thought, means that the physical evolution of homo sapiens has stalled.
There are some changes occurring, such as the increase in height over the last century or so, but this I feel is due more to a higher quality of living than any evolutionary development.
Ultimately, evolution can only really occur if genetic changes bring about an advantage, and the advantage allows a greater reproductive success, therefore slowly but surely ensuring that all individuals of subsequent generations have the genetic changes. As our society and population is so large, so disparate, and so mobile, I do not think this will happen....
The next stage for humanity will be through the use of technology, probably IMHO mental augmentation using carbon nanotubes, caused by, and bringing about, fundamental changes in the way we understand the universe and it's physical processes.
Of course, if a truly sentient, broad spectrum AI were to be created, that would bring about huge changes as well...
I disagree, we're getting taller, fatter, world records for sport continue to get broken, intelligence (or the ability to apply learning) has improved.There are some changes occurring, such as the increase in height over the last century or so, but this I feel is due more to a higher quality of living than any evolutionary development.
Ultimately, evolution can only really occur if genetic changes bring about an advantage, and the advantage allows a greater reproductive success, therefore slowly but surely ensuring that all individuals of subsequent generations have the genetic changes. As our society and population is so large, so disparate, and so mobile, I do not think this will happen....
The next stage for humanity will be through the use of technology, probably IMHO mental augmentation using carbon nanotubes, caused by, and bringing about, fundamental changes in the way we understand the universe and it's physical processes.
Of course, if a truly sentient, broad spectrum AI were to be created, that would bring about huge changes as well...
Taller, well, I would suggest that this is caused by better nutrition when infant, and more time given to growth before the hard work of life really kicks in.
Fatter, simple, more food, of poorer quality. Not genetic...
Sporting records, again, a lot is due to better nutrition, better training, the rise of the professional athlete, and a far better understanding of the psychology of performing well.
Intelligence and the ability to apply learning, I would disagree with completely. Look around, I'm only 26, yet in my lifetime I've noticed a steady, progressive trend away from application of intelligence, to a society that rewards laziness, benchmarks everything against immaterial 'targets', and sheep like learning about the world. Certainly if the average intelligence is being increased, I see very little evidence that people can actually apply it outside of a narrow field of expertise. Standing on the shoulders of giants and moving the game along does not imply intelligence, merely continuation of the previous efforts. Good example is the profession of mechanic. My grandfather trained in the '40s, and learnt to repair, fix, and if necessary fabricate whatever was required to get the vehicle going again. How many 'fitters' have this ability, instead of relying on a troubleshooting manual that involves progressively replacing parts until the car is cured?
ks whom, etc.if were looking from a purely scientific point of view were stuffed really, we spend so much keeping "defective" people alive and helping them lead lives and pass their faults on its bringing weaknesses into the species that nature would have removed. That and more and more couples need help even conceiving i think as a species its only a matter of time before were out of luck and heading into extinction. That and the worlds over populated as it is, should limit reproduction globally or we'll not be able to sustain our species anyway.
rhinochopig said:
Famous Graham said:
Sway said:
rhinochopig said:
Sway said:
For me, the fact that we now have the capability to mould and adapt to the environment we live in through the use of technology and thought, means that the physical evolution of homo sapiens has stalled.
There are some changes occurring, such as the increase in height over the last century or so, but this I feel is due more to a higher quality of living than any evolutionary development.
Ultimately, evolution can only really occur if genetic changes bring about an advantage, and the advantage allows a greater reproductive success, therefore slowly but surely ensuring that all individuals of subsequent generations have the genetic changes. As our society and population is so large, so disparate, and so mobile, I do not think this will happen....
The next stage for humanity will be through the use of technology, probably IMHO mental augmentation using carbon nanotubes, caused by, and bringing about, fundamental changes in the way we understand the universe and it's physical processes.
Of course, if a truly sentient, broad spectrum AI were to be created, that would bring about huge changes as well...
I disagree, we're getting taller, fatter, world records for sport continue to get broken, intelligence (or the ability to apply learning) has improved.There are some changes occurring, such as the increase in height over the last century or so, but this I feel is due more to a higher quality of living than any evolutionary development.
Ultimately, evolution can only really occur if genetic changes bring about an advantage, and the advantage allows a greater reproductive success, therefore slowly but surely ensuring that all individuals of subsequent generations have the genetic changes. As our society and population is so large, so disparate, and so mobile, I do not think this will happen....
The next stage for humanity will be through the use of technology, probably IMHO mental augmentation using carbon nanotubes, caused by, and bringing about, fundamental changes in the way we understand the universe and it's physical processes.
Of course, if a truly sentient, broad spectrum AI were to be created, that would bring about huge changes as well...
Taller, well, I would suggest that this is caused by better nutrition when infant, and more time given to growth before the hard work of life really kicks in.
Fatter, simple, more food, of poorer quality. Not genetic...
Sporting records, again, a lot is due to better nutrition, better training, the rise of the professional athlete, and a far better understanding of the psychology of performing well.
Intelligence and the ability to apply learning, I would disagree with completely. Look around, I'm only 26, yet in my lifetime I've noticed a steady, progressive trend away from application of intelligence, to a society that rewards laziness, benchmarks everything against immaterial 'targets', and sheep like learning about the world. Certainly if the average intelligence is being increased, I see very little evidence that people can actually apply it outside of a narrow field of expertise. Standing on the shoulders of giants and moving the game along does not imply intelligence, merely continuation of the previous efforts. Good example is the profession of mechanic. My grandfather trained in the '40s, and learnt to repair, fix, and if necessary fabricate whatever was required to get the vehicle going again. How many 'fitters' have this ability, instead of relying on a troubleshooting manual that involves progressively replacing parts until the car is cured?
ks whom, etc.I suppose the definition of evolution does need to be a bit broader now, or at least, be qualified with concepts such as, as you say, conscious choices made by the subjects in the case of human attraction, artificial stimuli like technology and so on.
I'm going to play the devil's favourite egg-based beverage here and this might be slightly controversial but to anyone 'offended', please read the entire post before commenting.
In my opinion, human evolution has ended, at least in the developed world anyway. Arguably, we as a species are evolving backwards, not forwards. I'll explain.
As the OP said, evolution is brought about by a random genetic mutation which turns out to be favourable to the environment in which the organism lives. It makes them better suited to it and more likely to live long enough to pass on their 'superior' genes to the next generation. Evolution by natural selection. In otherwords, survival of the fittest.
Thanks to modern medicine in the developed world, we as a species and a society do not allow the weakest members of our population to die, as they would if they were part of any other species. We treat them, because we can. Disease (drugs), defective organs (transplants), inability to produce viable offspring (IVF) &c, &c, &c. Essentially what we are doing is allowing those with defective genes to live long enough to pass on their inferior genes to the next generation, where once again they will be treated for any 'disadvantage'.
Ethically, of course, I don't think you'll find many people who will disagree with the view that we have a responsibility to help these people because we can. When it comes to our own family, the selfish gene takes over and we will do anything to see our own genes passed on, weak genes or not. However, the process which has seen humans evolve to the state in which we now find ourselves is being superseded by ethics and society, and it may, ultimately, be detrimental to the evolution of our species.
It's debatable but, as we know, human life was first found in Africa. It's not unreasonable to suggest that the next stage of human evolution may be found there, where life is harder and the rules of 'the wild' still apply to many.
In my opinion, human evolution has ended, at least in the developed world anyway. Arguably, we as a species are evolving backwards, not forwards. I'll explain.
As the OP said, evolution is brought about by a random genetic mutation which turns out to be favourable to the environment in which the organism lives. It makes them better suited to it and more likely to live long enough to pass on their 'superior' genes to the next generation. Evolution by natural selection. In otherwords, survival of the fittest.
Thanks to modern medicine in the developed world, we as a species and a society do not allow the weakest members of our population to die, as they would if they were part of any other species. We treat them, because we can. Disease (drugs), defective organs (transplants), inability to produce viable offspring (IVF) &c, &c, &c. Essentially what we are doing is allowing those with defective genes to live long enough to pass on their inferior genes to the next generation, where once again they will be treated for any 'disadvantage'.
Ethically, of course, I don't think you'll find many people who will disagree with the view that we have a responsibility to help these people because we can. When it comes to our own family, the selfish gene takes over and we will do anything to see our own genes passed on, weak genes or not. However, the process which has seen humans evolve to the state in which we now find ourselves is being superseded by ethics and society, and it may, ultimately, be detrimental to the evolution of our species.
It's debatable but, as we know, human life was first found in Africa. It's not unreasonable to suggest that the next stage of human evolution may be found there, where life is harder and the rules of 'the wild' still apply to many.
Skyrat said:
I'm going to play the devil's favourite egg-based beverage here and this might be slightly controversial but to anyone 'offended', please read the entire post before commenting.
In my opinion, human evolution has ended, at least in the developed world anyway. Arguably, we as a species are evolving backwards, not forwards. I'll explain.
As the OP said, evolution is brought about by a random genetic mutation which turns out to be favourable to the environment in which the organism lives. It makes them better suited to it and more likely to live long enough to pass on their 'superior' genes to the next generation. Evolution by natural selection. In otherwords, survival of the fittest.
Thanks to modern medicine in the developed world, we as a species and a society do not allow the weakest members of our population to die, as they would if they were part of any other species. We treat them, because we can. Disease (drugs), defective organs (transplants), inability to produce viable offspring (IVF) &c, &c, &c. Essentially what we are doing is allowing those with defective genes to live long enough to pass on their inferior genes to the next generation, where once again they will be treated for any 'disadvantage'.
Ethically, of course, I don't think you'll find many people who will disagree with the view that we have a responsibility to help these people because we can. When it comes to our own family, the selfish gene takes over and we will do anything to see our own genes passed on, weak genes or not. However, the process which has seen humans evolve to the state in which we now find ourselves is being superseded by ethics and society, and it may, ultimately, be detrimental to the evolution of our species.
It's debatable but, as we know, human life was first found in Africa. It's not unreasonable to suggest that the next stage of human evolution may be found there, where life is harder and the rules of 'the wild' still apply to many.
Agree completely - this thread is evolving into a broader debate regarding Rhinochopig's 'Big Question' thread.In my opinion, human evolution has ended, at least in the developed world anyway. Arguably, we as a species are evolving backwards, not forwards. I'll explain.
As the OP said, evolution is brought about by a random genetic mutation which turns out to be favourable to the environment in which the organism lives. It makes them better suited to it and more likely to live long enough to pass on their 'superior' genes to the next generation. Evolution by natural selection. In otherwords, survival of the fittest.
Thanks to modern medicine in the developed world, we as a species and a society do not allow the weakest members of our population to die, as they would if they were part of any other species. We treat them, because we can. Disease (drugs), defective organs (transplants), inability to produce viable offspring (IVF) &c, &c, &c. Essentially what we are doing is allowing those with defective genes to live long enough to pass on their inferior genes to the next generation, where once again they will be treated for any 'disadvantage'.
Ethically, of course, I don't think you'll find many people who will disagree with the view that we have a responsibility to help these people because we can. When it comes to our own family, the selfish gene takes over and we will do anything to see our own genes passed on, weak genes or not. However, the process which has seen humans evolve to the state in which we now find ourselves is being superseded by ethics and society, and it may, ultimately, be detrimental to the evolution of our species.
It's debatable but, as we know, human life was first found in Africa. It's not unreasonable to suggest that the next stage of human evolution may be found there, where life is harder and the rules of 'the wild' still apply to many.
Sway said:
Intelligence and the ability to apply learning, I would disagree with completely. Look around, I'm only 26, yet in my lifetime I've noticed a steady, progressive trend away from application of intelligence, to a society that rewards laziness, benchmarks everything against immaterial 'targets', and sheep like learning about the world. Certainly if the average intelligence is being increased, I see very little evidence that people can actually apply it outside of a narrow field of expertise.
You are confusing what is happening in the UK with global human evolution.There are still many many societies where education is valued (India, China, Vietnam, US etc).
So your applying a very narrow view of evolution to a whole world based on what you see in the UK, is in itself a sign of a lack of intelligence.
HTH
Skyrat said:
As the OP said, evolution is brought about by a random genetic mutation which turns out to be favourable to the environment in which the organism lives. It makes them better suited to it and more likely to live long enough to pass on their 'superior' genes to the next generation. Evolution by natural selection. In otherwords, survival of the fittest.
I think your definition is too narrow TBH. The accepted definition is something like this.In biology, evolution is change in the inherited traits of a population of organisms from one generation to the next. These changes are caused by a combination of three main processes: variation, reproduction, and selection.
It's not just reactions to our environment.
One potential future outcome is that we'll see a divergence of the species as like mates with like. What we won't get is a dominance of the freeloader, as some have pointed out, as when the producers get below a critical number there won't be enough resources produced to support the freeloader. Ergo, they'll die out or have to become producers.
Looking at a much longer view of evolution (and shamelessly stolen from the Orb track 'Salt' (which apparently was sampled from a 1993 movie "Naked" by Mike Leigh))...
Orb said:
Do you think that the amoeba ever dreamed that it would evolve into the frog?
And when that first frog shimmied out of the water and employed its vocal chords in order to attract a mate or when it tired of gravity, do you think that that frog ever imagined that incipient croak would evolve into all the languages of the world, into all the literature of the word, possibly?
And just as that froggie could never have conceived of Shakespeare, so we can never possibly imagine our destiny.
Short term though, I do agree that modern medicine, wonderful though it is, is fighting natural evolution. Natural evolution will be replaced by selective engineering of the best/strongest/most resistant embryos IMHO.And when that first frog shimmied out of the water and employed its vocal chords in order to attract a mate or when it tired of gravity, do you think that that frog ever imagined that incipient croak would evolve into all the languages of the world, into all the literature of the word, possibly?
And just as that froggie could never have conceived of Shakespeare, so we can never possibly imagine our destiny.
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