Massa Against Pay Cuts
Discussion
Suprise suprise.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72564
I bet he gets paid a hell of a lot more than 90% of the drivers out there. I would happily drive for 5% of what they get paid. Kimi gets £35m a year, which is something like £1.8 million a race. I would be happy with £50,000 a race.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72564
I bet he gets paid a hell of a lot more than 90% of the drivers out there. I would happily drive for 5% of what they get paid. Kimi gets £35m a year, which is something like £1.8 million a race. I would be happy with £50,000 a race.
TVR Moneypit said:
Actually, there were some good comments made by Massa in that interview.
Yes, bigger cuts could be made elsewhere. Why penalise the drivers, and not everyone else on the payroll? And having a standered engine would be bad for technological improvement.
I agree, but to be honest, most team bosses probably pay their drivers more than pretty much the rest of the workforce. Kimi is reportedly on £35m a year, I'll bet Massa is on £25m+. The reason they say the drivers need to take pay cuts is because they pay them so much in the first place. I wouldn't mind seeing all drivers paid a base rate of £30k, then give them £10k bonuses per point and £100k per win. It'll solve all of F1's worries, as the costs will come down considerably, AND we will see lots more overtaking.Yes, bigger cuts could be made elsewhere. Why penalise the drivers, and not everyone else on the payroll? And having a standered engine would be bad for technological improvement.
I agree standard engines aren't the solution, Massa is definitely right. It's not a Ferrari without a Ferrari engine, and it's the same with the other manufacturer-backed teams.
As I said, the idea of giving the drivers a basic wage and then let them fight for money per point will help curb spending in salaries (unless we get another Schumacher/Ferrari sort of combination that wins everything, then it'll be changed). All that's left to do is curb spending in other areas. I say, cap each team's development kitty at a given level, then say do whatever you like as long as it's under the budget. Some teams would develop the engine for power/speed, others will go down the great handling/not so good engine route, others will find a compromise.
My opinion of Massa had generally risen in the last couple of years. No longer.
This is what Jeff Gordon, a man who has won numerous championships, recently said on the same subject:
Thanks for your meaningless opinion, Felipe. Now shut up, put your helmet back on, and hope you'll be lucky enough to be paid next year half of what you were paid last year.
This is what Jeff Gordon, a man who has won numerous championships, recently said on the same subject:
Jeff Gordon said:
Jeff Gordon admitted earlier today that he is ready to discuss a reduction in earnings (pay cut, to be more exact) in case such a proposition will be made to him by team owner Rick Hendrick. Five time Sprint Cup champion, the Californian insisted that all NASCAR drivers should consider such a possibility given the economic regression affecting the North American racing series.
“The way I look at is that I always say to Rick Hendrick, 'I'll do whatever it takes for us to have the best team we can possibly have'. If that means take part of my salary to keep certain people on or to hire certain people, I'll do it. If me and Rick Hendrick sit down and we talk about the position that we're in – obviously I'm not the only one – but I would be open to it. Listen, I never got into this to make millions of dollars. I never dreamed in a million years I was going to make this kind of money. This is ridiculous.”
“It's stupid what we spend on motor homes and planes and all this. Do we need that? No. But things have been good for us. The sport's been good. I'm living this way because things have been very good. Now, obviously, we're having to cut back, and I have to cut back, too,” insisted Gordon, according to NASCAR news.
(http://www.autoevolution.com/news/jeff-gordon-to-accept-salary-cut-to-save-performance-2523.html)“The way I look at is that I always say to Rick Hendrick, 'I'll do whatever it takes for us to have the best team we can possibly have'. If that means take part of my salary to keep certain people on or to hire certain people, I'll do it. If me and Rick Hendrick sit down and we talk about the position that we're in – obviously I'm not the only one – but I would be open to it. Listen, I never got into this to make millions of dollars. I never dreamed in a million years I was going to make this kind of money. This is ridiculous.”
“It's stupid what we spend on motor homes and planes and all this. Do we need that? No. But things have been good for us. The sport's been good. I'm living this way because things have been very good. Now, obviously, we're having to cut back, and I have to cut back, too,” insisted Gordon, according to NASCAR news.
Thanks for your meaningless opinion, Felipe. Now shut up, put your helmet back on, and hope you'll be lucky enough to be paid next year half of what you were paid last year.
"Ithe cost of the drivers are small compared to the total budget of the teams."
Lets say (conservatively) that Raikkonen and Massa take home $35m between them from a total budget of ~$350m. That's 10%, a fairly big chunk of budget that could be cut very easily.
Massa says: "The more people work to reduce costs, the better it is going to be for everybody."
Massa means: "Everyone except for me. Bye!"
Lets say (conservatively) that Raikkonen and Massa take home $35m between them from a total budget of ~$350m. That's 10%, a fairly big chunk of budget that could be cut very easily.
Massa says: "The more people work to reduce costs, the better it is going to be for everybody."
Massa means: "Everyone except for me. Bye!"
SamHH said:
flemke said:
Thanks for your meaningless opinion, Felipe. Now shut up, put your helmet back on, and hope you'll be lucky enough to be paid next year half of what you were paid last year.
He was asked a question, he gave his opinion. Why shouldn't he do that?Why is it so tough for Massa not to think like a selfish baby, and instead recognise that he is one of the luckiest people on earth?
Just contrast Massa's answer with that of Gordon, who specifically said that he was willing to sacrifice some of his pay for the sake of the team.
flemke said:
The problem is not the fact that he answered the question. It's the fact that his answer was immature and self-serving. He totally ignored what has happened in the world and how, in order to save, say, £1M, Ferrari could either reduce his salary (which will be only half his income) by 10%, or sack 10 other employees, with families, who have not got millions in the bank and who, unlike Massa, cannot cruise for the rest of their lives.
Why is it so tough for Massa not to think like a selfish baby, and instead recognise that he is one of the luckiest people on earth?
Just contrast Massa's answer with that of Gordon, who specifically said that he was willing to sacrifice some of his pay for the sake of the team.
Sorry, I thought your "shut up" comment meant you thought me he shouldn't have said anything. Anyway, I can't see how it makes much difference what the drivers say. The teams will decide how much the drivers are worth to them, and pay them accordingly.Why is it so tough for Massa not to think like a selfish baby, and instead recognise that he is one of the luckiest people on earth?
Just contrast Massa's answer with that of Gordon, who specifically said that he was willing to sacrifice some of his pay for the sake of the team.
flemke said:
stuff
Well said.Though I'm not sure JG comes out shining - he notes that they've been pissing it up the wall and it's stupid in the recent past. Perhaps if everyone had been a bit more circumspect in the first place we wouldn't be in the mess we're in now...but at least he has the good sense to admit they need to change.
Massa and the F1 jockeys are turning into footballers.
SamHH said:
Sorry, I thought your "shut up" comment meant you thought me he shouldn't have said anything. Anyway, I can't see how it makes much difference what the drivers say. The teams will decide how much the drivers are worth to them, and pay them accordingly.
Apropos of Massa's reply, it is said that it is better to remain silent and be thought possibly to be a fool than to speak up and leave no room for doubt.If it is true that the teams will do whatever they like, regardless of the drivers' wishes, then all the more reason for Massa to have shown a bit more class by answering the question as a grown-up would have done.
Beyond that, if I were one of the normal employees on Massa's team, I doubt that it would endear me to the little blighter to hear that, instead of his taking a small pay cut whilst still remaining a grossly-overpaid "star", he'd prefer that I, or one of my peers, be made redundant.
Felipe should really know when to keep his gob shut. If I was Luca and was looking to save money, I'd sack Felipe tomorrow and replace him fairly easily not only with another driver of equivalent talent, but probably with one who would actually PAY the team to drive a frontrunning Ferrari in 2009.
Edited by corozin on Saturday 3rd January 19:09
micky g said:
Does anyone seriously thinks a contracted driver who is on say, 10 million a year, is willingly going to agree to reducing their pay?
Out of contract it's a case of how much is the driver worth to the team and that's when negotiations take place.
As we all know, it's a business.
Please see comment above from Jeff Gordon, contracted driver.Out of contract it's a case of how much is the driver worth to the team and that's when negotiations take place.
As we all know, it's a business.
Murph7355 said:
Though I'm not sure JG comes out shining - he notes that they've been pissing it up the wall and it's stupid in the recent past. Perhaps if everyone had been a bit more circumspect in the first place we wouldn't be in the mess we're in now...but at least he has the good sense to admit they need to change.
When times were good and the sponsors were happy to pay the market rate, the drivers took the market rate. They'd be mad not to.If JG hadn't been paid what he took in those times, his team boss would have trousered the difference.
What JG has actually said is not that they've been pissing it up the wall, but that they have been living to very comfortable means. Now the belt is being tightened, he's prepared to tighten his too. Unlike
I think that's laudable and raises my respect for Jeff Gordon even higher - he is an old-school professional racing driver that many would do well to take a tip from.
Few people would be willing to take a pay cut, but it does seem a bit churlish for someone being paid millions not to at least think about taking a pay cut if it means your team are more likely to stay alive.
Mind you, whilst I think Jeff Gordon has an admirable attitude, there are differences between his situation and Massa's. Gordon drives for a relatively small team, whereas Massa drives for a massive company, who aren't in any danger of going under. If his salary was the difference between the team going under or surviving, then I'm sure he'd be open to taking a cut.
This is all irrelevant though. The market rate will set drivers salaries as it always has. If a team want a driver, then they'll pay what is asked. When Schumacher was at the height of his powers, do you think that there would have been any option of cutting his salary? Especially given that he'd be likely to be on a multi-year deal anyway.
Taking a risk with a top line driver just won't happen. They are too important a part of the package to muck about with and so the market rate will set salaries. If you try and tell someone like Alonso that he'll be paid £3.50 next year and that he's lucky to have a job, he'll just feck off to another team who are willing to pay him the millions he wants.
Driver salaries haven't gotten ridiculous for no reason.
Mind you, whilst I think Jeff Gordon has an admirable attitude, there are differences between his situation and Massa's. Gordon drives for a relatively small team, whereas Massa drives for a massive company, who aren't in any danger of going under. If his salary was the difference between the team going under or surviving, then I'm sure he'd be open to taking a cut.
This is all irrelevant though. The market rate will set drivers salaries as it always has. If a team want a driver, then they'll pay what is asked. When Schumacher was at the height of his powers, do you think that there would have been any option of cutting his salary? Especially given that he'd be likely to be on a multi-year deal anyway.
Taking a risk with a top line driver just won't happen. They are too important a part of the package to muck about with and so the market rate will set salaries. If you try and tell someone like Alonso that he'll be paid £3.50 next year and that he's lucky to have a job, he'll just feck off to another team who are willing to pay him the millions he wants.
Driver salaries haven't gotten ridiculous for no reason.
I suppose it all comes down to what is important to the driver? Winning or earning?
What if...
Team Boss, "Look Driver, money is tight and we might have to loose some key people in engineering because we can't pay them"
Driver, "Go on..."
TB, "The car might not be competitive next year as a result..."
D, "Go on...
TB, "We could keep them and beat those pesky (insert suitable team here), but only if we could save £XYZ from somewhere else"
D, "Go on...
TB, "If you think you can beat team pesky's No1 driver then take a pay cut and the team will deliver. If your not up for it we will understand"
Just maybe...
Steve
What if...
Team Boss, "Look Driver, money is tight and we might have to loose some key people in engineering because we can't pay them"
Driver, "Go on..."
TB, "The car might not be competitive next year as a result..."
D, "Go on...
TB, "We could keep them and beat those pesky (insert suitable team here), but only if we could save £XYZ from somewhere else"
D, "Go on...
TB, "If you think you can beat team pesky's No1 driver then take a pay cut and the team will deliver. If your not up for it we will understand"
Just maybe...
Steve
dpbird90 said:
Suprise suprise.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72564
I bet he gets paid a hell of a lot more than 90% of the drivers out there. I would happily drive for 5% of what they get paid. Kimi gets £35m a year, which is something like £1.8 million a race. I would be happy with £50,000 a race.
£50,000 a race? i'd do it for 5p a race.http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72564
I bet he gets paid a hell of a lot more than 90% of the drivers out there. I would happily drive for 5% of what they get paid. Kimi gets £35m a year, which is something like £1.8 million a race. I would be happy with £50,000 a race.
"Man says he doesn't want less money for doing the same job as he was doing last year."
Well, looking at recent union negotiated settlements he's not the only one so I can't say as I'm surprised! Having said that there'll be a few in the finance industry getting lower bonuses this / next year so I guess the precedent's out there!
Well, looking at recent union negotiated settlements he's not the only one so I can't say as I'm surprised! Having said that there'll be a few in the finance industry getting lower bonuses this / next year so I guess the precedent's out there!
Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff