Easy To Drive = Boring!
Discussion
Discuss!
Just to start the discussion off... I'd rather supposedly "downgrade" via Nobles, Exiges, Atoms and Elises than buy a modern easy-to-drive 'super'car...
I'm not the biggest fan of feel-robbing power steering... ABS is never high on my list and definitely not Traction Control... Even 4WD feels wierd to me!
Oh... and don't even get me started about anything without a REAL gearbox!
My cars are supposed to be heavy and awkward and uncomfortable and tiring... I find them exhilarating, engaging, exciting and rewarding. You'd be amazed at just how quickly you get used to a heavy clutch and it becomes no problem at all... Drive the Esprit or Diablo for 2 hours and get into anything else and you feel like you're driving a rice pudding or a bouncy castle on wheels!
I know this is something everyone will have their own personal view on - I'd just like to point out that you're all wrong!
Just to start the discussion off... I'd rather supposedly "downgrade" via Nobles, Exiges, Atoms and Elises than buy a modern easy-to-drive 'super'car...
I'm not the biggest fan of feel-robbing power steering... ABS is never high on my list and definitely not Traction Control... Even 4WD feels wierd to me!
Oh... and don't even get me started about anything without a REAL gearbox!
My cars are supposed to be heavy and awkward and uncomfortable and tiring... I find them exhilarating, engaging, exciting and rewarding. You'd be amazed at just how quickly you get used to a heavy clutch and it becomes no problem at all... Drive the Esprit or Diablo for 2 hours and get into anything else and you feel like you're driving a rice pudding or a bouncy castle on wheels!
I know this is something everyone will have their own personal view on - I'd just like to point out that you're all wrong!
Hi Robin,
I'm not wrong. Have both is the way! 2WD/SV/SE and Murci. Best of both worlds.
That said, I've come to realise that if a car is fast enough, it doesn't matter how comfortable it is and how many gismos it has, the sheer speed is excillerating. But the more raw car can give you the same sensation at less speed.
I'm not wrong. Have both is the way! 2WD/SV/SE and Murci. Best of both worlds.
That said, I've come to realise that if a car is fast enough, it doesn't matter how comfortable it is and how many gismos it has, the sheer speed is excillerating. But the more raw car can give you the same sensation at less speed.
selmahoos said:
Having lost the back end of the 430 accelerating on an icy road the other day I'm very grateful for traction control which saved a mahoosive repair bill not to mention a serious injury.
That's exactly what this post is about - having TC is a bit boring. No TC and you'd be thinking more about the road conditions, level of acceleration, actual levels of grip etc.Try turning TC and have a drive - bit more exciting ???
Verey true - I'm *Always* at the height of alertness when cornering or accelerating with any gusto.
"To soon? Too much? What are the road conditions like? Moisture / Mud / Frost / Uneven Surface / Manhole Covers" etc etc I'm constantly having to be at the top of my game, adrenaline pumping like a mofo!
The few times the back has ever done anything 'interesting' I was 'expecting' it, as I knew I was playing and I always know not to push too hard when I think I may be close to the limit of grip...
LOL @ Andrew!
"To soon? Too much? What are the road conditions like? Moisture / Mud / Frost / Uneven Surface / Manhole Covers" etc etc I'm constantly having to be at the top of my game, adrenaline pumping like a mofo!
The few times the back has ever done anything 'interesting' I was 'expecting' it, as I knew I was playing and I always know not to push too hard when I think I may be close to the limit of grip...
LOL @ Andrew!
I think the TC is great on public road especially when icy/wet. It certainly helps when inexperienced drivers lose the back end, often saving themselves and more importantly, hurting other road users.
Anyone can buy powerful cars regardless of their driving skills/experiences so driver's aids are good thing. Most cars allow you to take them off if the drivers feel up to it so I can't see how having the option takes the thrill away (except for the ABS).
ABS can be a bit annoying on track but having it on the road use is more essential. If one drives so fast on the dry road as to trigger the ABS often, one should learn to brake more gently with better control. In a way it tells the driver he/she is not braking properly without locking up, so it can assist the driver to improve the braking skill. One huge lock up on the road could mean fatal accident and there is no more learning afterwards. ABS comes very handy when the condition is poor as well, even for very experienced drivers.
I don't think heavy controls = fun nor light controls = boring. More like light controls = less tiring.
Easy to drive is subjective in that cars like Caterham, without any driver's aids, are easier to drive than many cars. especially on track. And it is immense fun! Most fun track car I've ever owned.
Anyone can buy powerful cars regardless of their driving skills/experiences so driver's aids are good thing. Most cars allow you to take them off if the drivers feel up to it so I can't see how having the option takes the thrill away (except for the ABS).
ABS can be a bit annoying on track but having it on the road use is more essential. If one drives so fast on the dry road as to trigger the ABS often, one should learn to brake more gently with better control. In a way it tells the driver he/she is not braking properly without locking up, so it can assist the driver to improve the braking skill. One huge lock up on the road could mean fatal accident and there is no more learning afterwards. ABS comes very handy when the condition is poor as well, even for very experienced drivers.
I don't think heavy controls = fun nor light controls = boring. More like light controls = less tiring.
Easy to drive is subjective in that cars like Caterham, without any driver's aids, are easier to drive than many cars. especially on track. And it is immense fun! Most fun track car I've ever owned.
Just been out in the 4wd e-gear with the TC switched on and it was.......
Great fun
Freezing cold, roof off, foot down, wife laughing so much at the speed of the thing she had tears rolling down her face, me with a huge grin with every corner, change down or accelerating out of a corner, past a line of cars or just to make the back end wiggle, never once risking life, limb or licence. Pops and bangs on over run, sun setting, heater on full, jumpers for goal posts. Back home for beer and roast potatoes.
Cars are only boring if you let them be boring, same as life really?
Great fun
Freezing cold, roof off, foot down, wife laughing so much at the speed of the thing she had tears rolling down her face, me with a huge grin with every corner, change down or accelerating out of a corner, past a line of cars or just to make the back end wiggle, never once risking life, limb or licence. Pops and bangs on over run, sun setting, heater on full, jumpers for goal posts. Back home for beer and roast potatoes.
Cars are only boring if you let them be boring, same as life really?
I think you may have a point, without TC/ECP/ABS/Airbags, maybe people would be able to drive theirs cars and not just steer them in a straight line fast and round corners beyond their capabilities and let the electronics save their sorry arses. Might mean more crashed cars = cheaper 2nd hand parts and more demand for the few left intact.
I had a sensor lead break, cut my ABS and ESP out, still drove the car quickly, didn't crash, I might think about getting all that shi te removed to help save some weight.
I had a sensor lead break, cut my ABS and ESP out, still drove the car quickly, didn't crash, I might think about getting all that shi te removed to help save some weight.
Will - daft question, but doesn't cutting out a device such as ABS render the vehicle un-roadworthy in the eyes of the law (as in it would not pass an MOT test if it was supposed to have it).
Only thinking of some tricky questions from an insurance assessor if the worst should happen.
Only thinking of some tricky questions from an insurance assessor if the worst should happen.
I once switched cars with a client - my 348TS for his Countach for a day. Now there is hard core and there is hard core. No rear vision, a clutch that needed Schwarzenegger's thighs to operate and a gear change that was baulky and obstructive. Don't get me started on the steering from rest either! I know the 348 gearbox was difficult when cold but that was beyond belief. No, there is a limit to how hard core I want to go, especially at my age!
Mwahahahaha!
The single biggest ingredients in generating excitement IMO are
a) speed
b) involvement
c) drama
And the latter two are VERY closely related.
Go and thrash a Ferrari 365 Boxer and then get into a 430 - believe me the new car will feel soo boring at twice the speed... IMO you'd need to give the 430 another 150bhp to feel as exciting because then it would be truly dramatic and you'd be more involved balancing a surfeit of power. (that sounds stupid if I think about it, because actually it's already got enough BHP to be a quick well balanced car)
I drove a 930 Turbo for the first time last week in the dark and wet and it was bloody scarier than shredding the tyres in 430 with all the nanny aids turned off...
a) speed
b) involvement
c) drama
And the latter two are VERY closely related.
Go and thrash a Ferrari 365 Boxer and then get into a 430 - believe me the new car will feel soo boring at twice the speed... IMO you'd need to give the 430 another 150bhp to feel as exciting because then it would be truly dramatic and you'd be more involved balancing a surfeit of power. (that sounds stupid if I think about it, because actually it's already got enough BHP to be a quick well balanced car)
I drove a 930 Turbo for the first time last week in the dark and wet and it was bloody scarier than shredding the tyres in 430 with all the nanny aids turned off...
Edited by Murcielago_Boy on Monday 5th January 15:54
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