Jackie Stewart talks about the power structure in F1
Discussion
Today's Times has a substantial interview with JYS:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/a...
One of the man's pithier comments:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/a...
One of the man's pithier comments:
The Times article said:
Some have applauded Mosley for having the guts to stay on. Not Stewart. “The scandal created the opportunity for a new structure to be born,” he says. “That opportunity has been overtaken by one man's insistence on remaining, which would have been impossible had it been an Olympic committee, the Football Association or a publicly held company. How can we accept that in a sport so dependent on multinational corporations and even governments for its revenues and which also requires a totally transparent and independent rule-making body?
The first on-line comment following the article is from someone with the user name "Derek Smith" I really enjoyed the Stewart years. He was sublime in a racing car. Not quite, in my opinion, on the same level as Clark but even so he could be compared to any other champion who has come since. But he is just some bloke. One who good at racing but still not a god. So when he says something there is a temptation to think that because he threw the Tyrell around with almost magical skill he must be right on other matters.
I've had the impression over the years that neither Mosley nor Ecclestone sent him Christmas cards and this ambivalence was no doubt reciprocated. I've interpreted the comments and attacks on Stewart with this in mind but one must also look to the Scot's pronouncements with care.
Even after careful consideration of what he said I have to say that I agree with him, expecially in the bit that Flemke quoted.
I've said on the blog that I regard Mosley and Eccs in the same way I do veteran cars. It's nice to see them come out from the museums once a year to make the journey from London to Brighton but they are totally unsuited to today's roads. Mosely and Eccs are yesterday's men, past their sell-by date and in a condition which, if the EU set standards for people to run an international sport, they would fail to meet them.
There is an excellent article by Mike Lawrence, no rabid critic of Mosley, on the current situation in F1 on the Pitpass website. Read it an worry.
I've had the impression over the years that neither Mosley nor Ecclestone sent him Christmas cards and this ambivalence was no doubt reciprocated. I've interpreted the comments and attacks on Stewart with this in mind but one must also look to the Scot's pronouncements with care.
Even after careful consideration of what he said I have to say that I agree with him, expecially in the bit that Flemke quoted.
I've said on the blog that I regard Mosley and Eccs in the same way I do veteran cars. It's nice to see them come out from the museums once a year to make the journey from London to Brighton but they are totally unsuited to today's roads. Mosely and Eccs are yesterday's men, past their sell-by date and in a condition which, if the EU set standards for people to run an international sport, they would fail to meet them.
There is an excellent article by Mike Lawrence, no rabid critic of Mosley, on the current situation in F1 on the Pitpass website. Read it an worry.
Derek Smith said:
There is an excellent article by Mike Lawrence, no rabid critic of Mosley, on the current situation in F1 on the Pitpass website. Read it an worry.
This one?:http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_feature_ite...
flemke said:
Today's Times has a substantial interview with JYS:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/a...
One of the man's pithier comments:
Good article, and some strong comments from Jacky on F1 which make allot of sense. Not to sure about this paragraph. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/a...
One of the man's pithier comments:
The Times article said:
Some have applauded Mosley for having the guts to stay on. Not Stewart. “The scandal created the opportunity for a new structure to be born,” he says. “That opportunity has been overtaken by one man's insistence on remaining, which would have been impossible had it been an Olympic committee, the Football Association or a publicly held company. How can we accept that in a sport so dependent on multinational corporations and even governments for its revenues and which also requires a totally transparent and independent rule-making body?
The first on-line comment following the article is from someone with the user name "Derek Smith" The Times article said:
Nothing is coming back into the sport,” Stewart says, echoing the views of Luca di Montezemolo, the Ferrari president, who criticised Ecclestone last month on the same issue. “The financial distribution of Formula One appears to have been sorted out by two people who have directed it in whichever way they have seen fit. Although this has been a significant benefit in some ways, it has also hurt the sport because the balance of contribution within Formula One is absolutely untenable.
I was sitting just by Bridge one year when Princess Di and the two princess were walking with Jackie Stewart along the trackside. One of the blokes near me yelled out, "Isn't that . .. er" and immediately someone else called out, "Yes. It's Jackie Stewart." Sort of summed him up in my mind. Everyone cheered and Di seemed to enjoy the joke.
I guess the thing on my mind is that things won't change before Bernie goes, or Max goes, or the teams leave. Personally, the political side is frustrating enough that I don't want to read an article about F1 politics unless it is an announcement of one of the three things above. The continual calls for change are just redundant, and boring, and irritating because there is no person attached to a pair of ears that is listening and can do anything about it. The political side of things has been a brick wall.
It was the same situation with the IRL/CART split. It shouldn't have happened, it killed an interesting series, and there wasn't a damn thing fans could do. Georgie boy has got his head so far up his tail pipe he wouldn't know excitement if it hit him in the forehead.
And apparently it's too much to ask for all these yahoos to stop creating all of these one make formulas. Enough! Apparently everyone with $200 million dollars to fund a series has the formula for ugly.
So I throw my hands up and wait to see if there's any shake up in the running order in Australia.
It was the same situation with the IRL/CART split. It shouldn't have happened, it killed an interesting series, and there wasn't a damn thing fans could do. Georgie boy has got his head so far up his tail pipe he wouldn't know excitement if it hit him in the forehead.
And apparently it's too much to ask for all these yahoos to stop creating all of these one make formulas. Enough! Apparently everyone with $200 million dollars to fund a series has the formula for ugly.
So I throw my hands up and wait to see if there's any shake up in the running order in Australia.
Edited by 35secToNuvolari on Monday 5th January 13:42
35secToNuvolari said:
Stuff, including "I guess the thing on my mind is that things won't change before Bernie goes, or Max goes, or the teams leave."
And things should change of course, but for the better. Mosley seems intent on dragging F1 into the Doldrums. Muck as I liked the 3-litre formula when it started - it gave rise to some beautifful cars - I'm so pleased it moved onwards and upwards. The days of the black and gold JPS Lotus, the ground-effect era, the tubo-charged wonders and now, it seems, Mosley can't se any further than Asda style of off-the-shelf cars. What's kept me entranced by F1 is not just the fact that it is different but better each time. Super A1GP is not the answer to the sport's problems, and nor is Mosley nor Eccs.F1 that doesn't grace the historic circuits of Europe is not F1. If Mosley wants to push for his Scalextrix series where he's in total control of everything then he should start Formula Woman-beater, or some such catchy title.
Whether Bernie has been good for the sport or not is something which I feel incapable of arguing either way. However, whether he's good for F1 at the moment I have a definite opinion and one I would evidence. I think there is no doubt that Mosley is bad for everything F1 stands for. I thought this before he was photographed in his death camp, German uniformed, Aryan blonde women-beating - but not, at least according to an eminent judge (nice one, Eady), nazi themed - sordid indulgence. That just made me certain that I was right.
To my way of thinking, anyone who puts himself forward for a vote of confidence and doesn't get overwhelming support is dishonest if they do not leave the post. By any estimation, even if one excludes the chap who said (boasted no less) organised the majority of the for votes, Mosley did not receive a vote of confidence. Yet he stayed. Therefore, he must go.
Have been an F1 fan since i was a kid, and only just being dragged into the politics of it, but its crazy what Bernie is able to get away with.
Surely the whole thing would be better off withiout a seperate company controlling the Commercial Rights? The FOTA should appoint certain people to do the job, then ALL money goes back into F1.
Either way, things have to change, i am interested to see how the 2009 cars perform, and even the looks will improve, but ideas like "cut costs" come in at the same time as Mercedes is spending £60m investing in the FIA's big idea of KERS, it just doesn't make sense.
get rid of the oldies and get some new blood in there, or if it works, just bloody leave it and let us, the fans enjoy what we pay well over the odds for.
Surely the whole thing would be better off withiout a seperate company controlling the Commercial Rights? The FOTA should appoint certain people to do the job, then ALL money goes back into F1.
Either way, things have to change, i am interested to see how the 2009 cars perform, and even the looks will improve, but ideas like "cut costs" come in at the same time as Mercedes is spending £60m investing in the FIA's big idea of KERS, it just doesn't make sense.
get rid of the oldies and get some new blood in there, or if it works, just bloody leave it and let us, the fans enjoy what we pay well over the odds for.
Gillet said:
Surely the whole thing would be better off withiout a seperate company controlling the Commercial Rights? The FOTA should appoint certain people to do the job, then ALL money goes back into F1.
That easily could have happened - until a few years ago when that wily old poker player Chelsea Slim arranged for the FIA to sell the commercial rights to F1 to Bernie, for a derisory fee.Not to worry, we can wait for them to reorganise it when Bernie's contract expires...in one hundred years.
flemke said:
Gillet said:
Surely the whole thing would be better off withiout a seperate company controlling the Commercial Rights? The FOTA should appoint certain people to do the job, then ALL money goes back into F1.
That easily could have happened - until a few years ago when that wily old poker player Chelsea Slim arranged for the FIA to sell the commercial rights to F1 to Bernie, for a derisory fee.Not to worry, we can wait for them to reorganise it when Bernie's contract expires...in one hundred years.
No, sorry Flemke, I can't believe you are right in this matter. I mean, it borders on the corrupt.
Los Angeles said:
When accepting his degree he mentioned his hopes and ambitions for F1 but regretted his views ignored too often in the past, and indeed found trouble explaining his stance in writing because of his dyslexia.
Holding his degree aloft in triumph he added:
"Well, from now on you'll have to listen to me. I am a doctor now!"
Well worth a Holding his degree aloft in triumph he added:
"Well, from now on you'll have to listen to me. I am a doctor now!"
Derek Smith said:
flemke said:
Gillet said:
Surely the whole thing would be better off withiout a seperate company controlling the Commercial Rights? The FOTA should appoint certain people to do the job, then ALL money goes back into F1.
That easily could have happened - until a few years ago when that wily old poker player Chelsea Slim arranged for the FIA to sell the commercial rights to F1 to Bernie, for a derisory fee.Not to worry, we can wait for them to reorganise it when Bernie's contract expires...in one hundred years.
No, sorry Flemke, I can't believe you are right in this matter. I mean, it borders on the corrupt.
I am shocked, monsieur, simply shocked.
Let me see if I can recall a few highlights:
1998 - Head of EC Competition Directorate Karel Van Miert announces investigation into relationship between FIA (regulator of F1) and F1 commercial rights holder (Bernie's company).
- Van Miert's enquiry sufficiently probing that Ecclestone cancels publicly-announced flotation of his company.
1999 - Van Miert replaced as head of ECCD by Mario Monti.
2000 - five days before formal hearings into FIA-Bernie relationship, hearings cancelled, pending discussions between ECCD, FIA and Bernie's company.
2001 - Monti announces agreement between ECCD, FIA and Bernie. Settlement is far less harsh to Bernie's company than was expected.
2001 - FIA sells commercial rights to Bernie's company, after non-competitive, secret negotiations, for one hundred years, for a total of $309M.
2007 - Bernie's company has profits of $447M, for that year alone.
I'm sure that there is something that I'm overlooking...such as the bad stuff.
But apart from the EC enquiry which rather mysteriously evaporated under the glare of darkness less than a week before the hearing, the sale of the commercial rights for just a bit over £300 million without them being put out to tender, the massive profits that ownership of the commercial rights bestows on the owner, what else was there that was not above board and normal practice? I mean apart from the money he gets from the circuits, the TV rights, the hordings . . . Cor, with all that money, he must pay an incredible amount of income tax.
Do you know, a 16-year-old kid was stopped one winter leaving a well-known mountain clothing store with a waterproof jacket. He had run away from home following 'attentions' from his mother's boyfriend. He'd only got thin trousers, shirt and thin pullover on and had no money. The store manager was adament that he wanted the police to prosecute as it was 'store procedure' over a certain amount. The kid had picked the jacket because it was near the door. The PC brought the kid in but refused to charge him with theft and went about sorting out accommodation for him. We tried to prosecute the boyfriend but he was nicked on a more serious charge and our one fell by the Met wayside.
The store manager came in to complain about the PC not doing his duty. My sergeant advised the chap to go away unless he wanted to come in later to complain about being sworn at by an inspector. And here we are talking about £millions.
Do you know, a 16-year-old kid was stopped one winter leaving a well-known mountain clothing store with a waterproof jacket. He had run away from home following 'attentions' from his mother's boyfriend. He'd only got thin trousers, shirt and thin pullover on and had no money. The store manager was adament that he wanted the police to prosecute as it was 'store procedure' over a certain amount. The kid had picked the jacket because it was near the door. The PC brought the kid in but refused to charge him with theft and went about sorting out accommodation for him. We tried to prosecute the boyfriend but he was nicked on a more serious charge and our one fell by the Met wayside.
The store manager came in to complain about the PC not doing his duty. My sergeant advised the chap to go away unless he wanted to come in later to complain about being sworn at by an inspector. And here we are talking about £millions.
Derek Smith said:
But apart from the EC enquiry which rather mysteriously evaporated under the glare of darkness less than a week before the hearing, the sale of the commercial rights for just a bit over £300 million without them being put out to tender,
The transaction would have been slightly less totally fuucking outrageous if the fee had been £300, that is, sterling. Alas, in this case it was in the lesser currency of dineros. Equivalent value at the time: roughly 200M of Lizzie's finest.Derek Smith said:
...the massive profits that ownership of the commercial rights bestows on the owner, what else was there that was not above board and normal practice? I mean apart from the money he gets from the circuits, the TV rights, the hordings . . . Cor, with all that money, he must pay an incredible amount of income tax.
Oh, yes. Although I don't know the precise numbers, I have no doubt that the tax rate on a trust domiciled in the Channel Islands is simply extortionate.Ecclestone & Moseley - they never had a - you know, a 'close' relationship did they? I used to genuinely think they at one stage appeared like an 'item' back in the 80s. There was something rather superciliously smooth and polished (coordinated pretty) about their behavior. (Not that it matters. In itself.) But I still don’t look at either of them today and not wonder ‘where’s/what’s the partner up to now?’ (you scratch my back – I’ll ….)
Moseley I distrusted 100% after we’d leaned that to avoid that Euro-monopolies investigation, he moved the FIA out of Paris - to Geneva.
Stewart can be irresistibly opinionated and rarely off in his convictions.
Never quite that popular as a driver; I recall Cevert and Rindt getting bigger receptions from the crowd - in F2 for example. I think he suffered being tarred by Jenkinson as being soft or not-a-sportsman when all around him were being killed and he was trying to get organised.
I should think BE’s lady wife, wanting out may distort what he can muster in the next year or two.
I fancied Martin Brundle to succeed Moseley but don’t know how you’d engineer that.
Moseley I distrusted 100% after we’d leaned that to avoid that Euro-monopolies investigation, he moved the FIA out of Paris - to Geneva.
Stewart can be irresistibly opinionated and rarely off in his convictions.
Never quite that popular as a driver; I recall Cevert and Rindt getting bigger receptions from the crowd - in F2 for example. I think he suffered being tarred by Jenkinson as being soft or not-a-sportsman when all around him were being killed and he was trying to get organised.
I should think BE’s lady wife, wanting out may distort what he can muster in the next year or two.
I fancied Martin Brundle to succeed Moseley but don’t know how you’d engineer that.
ph123 said:
Stewart can be irresistibly opinionated and rarely off in his convictions.
Never quite that popular as a driver; I recall Cevert and Rindt getting bigger receptions from the crowd - in F2 for example. I think he suffered being tarred by Jenkinson as being soft or not-a-sportsman when all around him were being killed and he was trying to get organised.
I was a fan of Jenkinson and Motor Sport but their attitude to risks in F1 put me against the pairing. I agree with you about what I saw as a campaign against JS because of what I considered to be just good sense but Motor Sport took as an attack on the sport. Different times I suppose.Never quite that popular as a driver; I recall Cevert and Rindt getting bigger receptions from the crowd - in F2 for example. I think he suffered being tarred by Jenkinson as being soft or not-a-sportsman when all around him were being killed and he was trying to get organised.
But I must admit to liking Rindt. Quality driver.
ph123 said:
Moseley I distrusted 100% after we’d leaned that to avoid that Euro-monopolies investigation, he moved the FIA out of Paris - to Geneva
.
The potentially very interesting thing about this is the public allegation - never supported by evidence, but never challenged by Mosley - that the reason that he moved to Monaco was not a smokescreen about the European Common Arrest Warrant and vicarious liability. Rather, so the story went, his motivation was that Bernie had rewarded Mosley for the one hundred-year contract with a $300M backhander, and the latter went to Monaco in order to avoid paying tax on it..
Derek Smith said:
flemke said:
Gillet said:
Surely the whole thing would be better off withiout a seperate company controlling the Commercial Rights? The FOTA should appoint certain people to do the job, then ALL money goes back into F1.
That easily could have happened - until a few years ago when that wily old poker player Chelsea Slim arranged for the FIA to sell the commercial rights to F1 to Bernie, for a derisory fee.Not to worry, we can wait for them to reorganise it when Bernie's contract expires...in one hundred years.
No, sorry Flemke, I can't believe you are right in this matter. I mean, it borders on the corrupt.
Alfie Noakes said:
Derek Smith said:
flemke said:
Gillet said:
Surely the whole thing would be better off withiout a seperate company controlling the Commercial Rights? The FOTA should appoint certain people to do the job, then ALL money goes back into F1.
That easily could have happened - until a few years ago when that wily old poker player Chelsea Slim arranged for the FIA to sell the commercial rights to F1 to Bernie, for a derisory fee.Not to worry, we can wait for them to reorganise it when Bernie's contract expires...in one hundred years.
No, sorry Flemke, I can't believe you are right in this matter. I mean, it borders on the corrupt.
Let's see...
- single tyre supplier - competitive tender
- common ECU - competitive tender
- standard engine - competitive tender
- $200,000 F2 car - competitive tender
- Contract granting monopoly entitlement to all media, circuit, circuit advertising and hospitality revenue for next one hundred years - Let's not get into all that competitve stuff - too messy. Let's keep that one a secret, shall we?
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