gillett reckons donny F1 planning is in the bag...
Discussion
castrolcraig said:
He'd better hope that he's got inside information, because the planning was always going to be the easy part.Let's not forget some of the other speculative elements of the plan:
- Shutting down an international airport for an afternoon
- Selling tens of thousands of debentures in return for an untried, unsubstantiated promise
- Not allowing car parking; instead expecting everybody to take a train or shuttle bus
- Remodeling the circuit and funding the race on the back of a leveraged structure that requires debt service, when the BRDC couldn't make it pay even without debt service or major circuit improvements
flemke said:
castrolcraig said:
- Not allowing car parking; instead expecting everybody to take a train or shuttle bus
Police State said:
flemke said:
castrolcraig said:
- Not allowing car parking; instead expecting everybody to take a train or shuttle bus
Motor racing, horse racing...what's the diff?
flemke said:
Police State said:
flemke said:
castrolcraig said:
- Not allowing car parking; instead expecting everybody to take a train or shuttle busMotor racing, horse racing...what's the diff?
Seriously though, how on earth does he imagine that motor racing fans will not want to take their chariots to a motor race? Apart from the inconvenience of public transport, let's see now; Cool Box, Hamper, Brolly (optional), Shooting stick, Rain Jacket, Wellies, Binoculars, et al, are just a sprinkling of the things we see at motor races not to mention all the lovely, and sometimes unusual private motors in the various car parks, which for me is all part of the (peripheral) but essential spectacle of the weekend. No Motors - No Show.
flemke said:
castrolcraig said:
He'd better hope that he's got inside information, because the planning was always going to be the easy part.Let's not forget some of the other speculative elements of the plan:
- Shutting down an international airport for an afternoon
- Selling tens of thousands of debentures in return for an untried, unsubstantiated promise
- Not allowing car parking; instead expecting everybody to take a train or shuttle bus
- Remodeling the circuit and funding the race on the back of a leveraged structure that requires debt service, when the BRDC couldn't make it pay even without debt service or major circuit improvements
I find that quite surprising and I wonder, if true, what comeback Gillett would have if IMG and GS changed their minds and pulled out of the deal due to the current financial climate.
Of course, all of this will be academic if planning permission is refused on Thursday.
I still believe that even if everything goes his way, this is just one big impossible dream too many for Mr G.
flemke said:
castrolcraig said:
He'd better hope that he's got inside information, because the planning was always going to be the easy part.Let's not forget some of the other speculative elements of the plan:
- Shutting down an international airport for an afternoon
- Selling tens of thousands of debentures in return for an untried, unsubstantiated promise
- Not allowing car parking; instead expecting everybody to take a train or shuttle bus
- Remodeling the circuit and funding the race on the back of a leveraged structure that requires debt service, when the BRDC couldn't make it pay even without debt service or major circuit improvements
I desperately want this venture to succeed and if it does I'll be very happy, but I just don't see it. There are too many things that have to happen perfectly for it to be a success.
fastfreddy said:
flemke said:
castrolcraig said:
He'd better hope that he's got inside information, because the planning was always going to be the easy part.Let's not forget some of the other speculative elements of the plan:
- Shutting down an international airport for an afternoon
- Selling tens of thousands of debentures in return for an untried, unsubstantiated promise
- Not allowing car parking; instead expecting everybody to take a train or shuttle bus
- Remodeling the circuit and funding the race on the back of a leveraged structure that requires debt service, when the BRDC couldn't make it pay even without debt service or major circuit improvements
I find that quite surprising and I wonder, if true, what comeback Gillett would have if IMG and GS changed their minds and pulled out of the deal due to the current financial climate.
Think about what their cost of funds is today, and to how many other purposes they could put them. GS, for example, has in the last three months made 20% of their staff redundant, and they've put their balance sheet into a pressure chamber to shrink it. Double A credits are still struggling to raise intermediate debt, and yet GS is going to lend these dudes 50 big ones of its own money?
Police State said:
flemke said:
Police State said:
flemke said:
castrolcraig said:
- Not allowing car parking; instead expecting everybody to take a train or shuttle busMotor racing, horse racing...what's the diff?
Seriously though, how on earth does he imagine that motor racing fans will not want to take their chariots to a motor race? Apart from the inconvenience of public transport, let's see now; Cool Box, Hamper, Brolly (optional), Shooting stick, Rain Jacket, Wellies, Binoculars, et al, are just a sprinkling of the things we see at motor races not to mention all the lovely, and sometimes unusual private motors in the various car parks, which for me is all part of the (peripheral) but essential spectacle of the weekend. No Motors - No Show.
The no parking is a reality brought about by the lack of space at the circuit and by the road network. I doubt it's something that they would chose to do in other cicumstances.
Still can't see this happening, the airport is a huge problem and the funding won't be in place.
Bye Bye BGP
Furyous said:
Piglet said:
Bye Bye BGP
I dont think so.I think the whole things a joke and a malicious scheme to leverage more money out of Silverstone.
I cannot see Donny ever managing to satisfy the dwarfs demands, and the whole thing will be a repetition of the Brands saga.
I'm not sure that the BRDC are inclined to pay more for the race, they struggle to make ends meet on it anyway.
All i can say is that The council can recommend the approval but it is upto the commitee members to give a yes or no.. They will be a opportunity for people to object strongly and if there is a sound case for refusal then it will be refused.
Personally i hope it is refused.
You can see that one of the applications here
http://paccess.nwleics.gov.uk/publicaccess/tdc/DcA...
Personally i hope it is refused.
You can see that one of the applications here
http://paccess.nwleics.gov.uk/publicaccess/tdc/DcA...
Edited by stevieb on Tuesday 6th January 09:19
Why do so many people think its ridiculous to have a GP that you can't drive your own car right into the venue?
There are lots of GP's (and other major motorsport events around the world) that you can't drive right into and spectators must use public transport for the final leg into the circuit.
The parking thing is no big deal to me. But I would be very pleasantly surprised if they can raise the money they need.....
There are lots of GP's (and other major motorsport events around the world) that you can't drive right into and spectators must use public transport for the final leg into the circuit.
The parking thing is no big deal to me. But I would be very pleasantly surprised if they can raise the money they need.....
touring fan said:
Why do so many people think its ridiculous to have a GP that you can't drive your own car right into the venue?
There are lots of GP's (and other major motorsport events around the world) that you can't drive right into and spectators must use public transport for the final leg into the circuit.
The parking thing is no big deal to me. But I would be very pleasantly surprised if they can raise the money they need.....
I personally don't think the idea itself is completely ridiculous, but in this country with our poor public transport network, it is unworkable.There are lots of GP's (and other major motorsport events around the world) that you can't drive right into and spectators must use public transport for the final leg into the circuit.
The parking thing is no big deal to me. But I would be very pleasantly surprised if they can raise the money they need.....
Gillett has said the spectators will be able to leave the track after the race, hop on special high speed trains and be back at home in time for tea.
As always with his announcements, there are a lot on unanswered questions.
The station which is going to serve Donington for this is yet to be built. When is it due for completion?
Where are these special high speed trains going to come from?
How are the Sunday services in London going to cope with the extra passengers?
It may take a couple of hours to get from Donington to London, but we don't all live in central London. It is a nightmare for me to get in and out of London by train and I don't live in the middle of nowhere. Add in the additional cost of getting to and from London and car parking at your local station and you'll be looking at a big number.
He really should be working for Gordon Brown as a spin doctor.
Some thoughts about the logisitics (but not the finances).
There is quite a lot of parking potential around Donington and indeed within the park boundary. However at the moment the road infrastructure can be problematic, especially if managed and operated by what seem to be YTS trainees temporarily employed by a security company. That said it has been a while since I saw any uniformed officer directing traffic so it is quite possible that such skills are no longer part of police training either. We may have to live with that.
It would not take too much to provide an really effective solution to that problem. Links to the North, South, South West and West (M1, M42, A50, A38) are close by. Connecting Eastwards, as ever, does not offer quite the same obvious high capacity opportunities although there are many roads that head that way and high volume access from the East may well funnel in through the M18/M1 and A14/M1 links anyway. Whilst the benefits would be great for the local communities and the airport throoughout the year AND for Donington Park for many of its larger events, I can foresee some local objections. Being public land and facilities it may take a while to happen anyway, so it's not likely to be an option in the early years.
Alternative modes of transport that offer the benefit of being able to fully enjoy the day (Train, Coach, etc.) are more viable. There is a of of hard standing area on which coaches could be parked and and shuttle buses operated.
I would imagine that anyone wishing to camp and arrive by car, staying for the best part of the weekend, could easily be accomodated. That seems to work perfectly well for other large events.
There are a number of well connected railway stations within 20 to 30 minutes travel from the track. I don't think special arrangements for a day, on a Sunday, would be too difficult to plan if there was some revenue involved. Derby, Nottingham, Loughborough, Long Eaton and Leicester come to mind and places like Burton on Trent and Tamworth must have facilities as well. The Parkway station intended to provide a train link for the East Midlands Airport should have been open by now but has had some delays related to dealing with some people who live near the site and have been left out of the plans. Last I heard it will open in March. For anyone using the A453 to exit the M1 for Nottingham South - the roadworks and new traffic light controlled junction at the power station are realted to the Rail Station development. So if you find yourselves queued up there you will know why.
With enough warning I don't see much of a problem handling airport traffic for a couple of hours on a Sunday afternoon. Unless weather conditions are very unusual I would imagine that operations could continue in some form with all takeoff and landing being managed to the East over Kegworth. I would guess the airport would not be unhappy with the extra executive jet traffic for the weekend.
So, IMO there is potential to operate in the way that seems to have been proposed. Whether that translates into it actually happening is another matter.
The money side is anyone's guess in the current economic climate.
There is quite a lot of parking potential around Donington and indeed within the park boundary. However at the moment the road infrastructure can be problematic, especially if managed and operated by what seem to be YTS trainees temporarily employed by a security company. That said it has been a while since I saw any uniformed officer directing traffic so it is quite possible that such skills are no longer part of police training either. We may have to live with that.
It would not take too much to provide an really effective solution to that problem. Links to the North, South, South West and West (M1, M42, A50, A38) are close by. Connecting Eastwards, as ever, does not offer quite the same obvious high capacity opportunities although there are many roads that head that way and high volume access from the East may well funnel in through the M18/M1 and A14/M1 links anyway. Whilst the benefits would be great for the local communities and the airport throoughout the year AND for Donington Park for many of its larger events, I can foresee some local objections. Being public land and facilities it may take a while to happen anyway, so it's not likely to be an option in the early years.
Alternative modes of transport that offer the benefit of being able to fully enjoy the day (Train, Coach, etc.) are more viable. There is a of of hard standing area on which coaches could be parked and and shuttle buses operated.
I would imagine that anyone wishing to camp and arrive by car, staying for the best part of the weekend, could easily be accomodated. That seems to work perfectly well for other large events.
There are a number of well connected railway stations within 20 to 30 minutes travel from the track. I don't think special arrangements for a day, on a Sunday, would be too difficult to plan if there was some revenue involved. Derby, Nottingham, Loughborough, Long Eaton and Leicester come to mind and places like Burton on Trent and Tamworth must have facilities as well. The Parkway station intended to provide a train link for the East Midlands Airport should have been open by now but has had some delays related to dealing with some people who live near the site and have been left out of the plans. Last I heard it will open in March. For anyone using the A453 to exit the M1 for Nottingham South - the roadworks and new traffic light controlled junction at the power station are realted to the Rail Station development. So if you find yourselves queued up there you will know why.
With enough warning I don't see much of a problem handling airport traffic for a couple of hours on a Sunday afternoon. Unless weather conditions are very unusual I would imagine that operations could continue in some form with all takeoff and landing being managed to the East over Kegworth. I would guess the airport would not be unhappy with the extra executive jet traffic for the weekend.
So, IMO there is potential to operate in the way that seems to have been proposed. Whether that translates into it actually happening is another matter.
The money side is anyone's guess in the current economic climate.
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