S Type in the Snow
Discussion
Only had the S Type 3 - 4 months (2.7 Tid), and it is the best car I have owned to date with regards to all round comfort and driving enjoyment(I have a Saab 9-3 rag top aero for more 'progressive' driving).
That is until today in the snow, it scared me to death. No feed back through the wheel, traction control comes in as soon as you touch the throttle, no 'snow mode' to enable you to select 2nd, the only blessing is the ABS, at a very slow crawl felt like it was working overtime to pull up in a straight line.
The S Type replaced a 3.0 Tid Saab 9-5 which to be honest, in the 4 years I had it, I am not sure if I drove in the snow. If I did, it certainly didn't leave a memory like today!
Roll on summer!
That is until today in the snow, it scared me to death. No feed back through the wheel, traction control comes in as soon as you touch the throttle, no 'snow mode' to enable you to select 2nd, the only blessing is the ABS, at a very slow crawl felt like it was working overtime to pull up in a straight line.
The S Type replaced a 3.0 Tid Saab 9-5 which to be honest, in the 4 years I had it, I am not sure if I drove in the snow. If I did, it certainly didn't leave a memory like today!
Roll on summer!
John,
We've had a fair bit of snow where I live and I was actually very pleased with my 3.0 S-Type. I have a steep slope to negotiate on the way out of my private estate where we seldom if ever see a gritting lorry, and I was pleasantly surprised how my S-Type managed the snow. I always wondered what the point of the J-gate gearchange was - now I know!
Moving off I use very gentle throttle and select 2 on the J-gate. This adds engine braking to the brakes going downhill and makes it much safer than relying on the brakes alone. I use 3 and 4 when required, brake very early and select 2 before negotiating any corners where traction is likely to be poor. I've had no problems at all so far, certainly a doddle after my last car.
We've had a fair bit of snow where I live and I was actually very pleased with my 3.0 S-Type. I have a steep slope to negotiate on the way out of my private estate where we seldom if ever see a gritting lorry, and I was pleasantly surprised how my S-Type managed the snow. I always wondered what the point of the J-gate gearchange was - now I know!
Moving off I use very gentle throttle and select 2 on the J-gate. This adds engine braking to the brakes going downhill and makes it much safer than relying on the brakes alone. I use 3 and 4 when required, brake very early and select 2 before negotiating any corners where traction is likely to be poor. I've had no problems at all so far, certainly a doddle after my last car.
I've had two S-Types, both V8s, over the past 8 years and I find trying to drive it in the snow just about impossible. I live at the end of a cul de sac of maybe 1/4 mile length with a hill down and then up to get to the main road. Never gritted and a nightmare. In fact, when snow is around I usually park the car out on the main road overnight and hope I can get it back to my garage the next evening. Many years ago I did winter motor rallying and thought nothing of fast speed on snow and ice, but in the S-Type it's scarry.
I've tried all ways to get grip many different ways, no success. Thanks now to Beauford's post I will tomorrow try it and see what happens, although there's half an inch of rutted sheet ice right outside my house right now. By the way, Beauford, do you have the traction control on or off? I think it should be on but then all that happens is wheel spin...maybe my technique is c**p.
Otherwise it's back to the OH's Fiesta...great drive in the snow and it gets me everywhere, must be because of front wheel drive I think. Just stick it in gear get the right foot down and juggle the steering wheel: great! I just love this car when there's snow and ice about.
R.
I've tried all ways to get grip many different ways, no success. Thanks now to Beauford's post I will tomorrow try it and see what happens, although there's half an inch of rutted sheet ice right outside my house right now. By the way, Beauford, do you have the traction control on or off? I think it should be on but then all that happens is wheel spin...maybe my technique is c**p.
Otherwise it's back to the OH's Fiesta...great drive in the snow and it gets me everywhere, must be because of front wheel drive I think. Just stick it in gear get the right foot down and juggle the steering wheel: great! I just love this car when there's snow and ice about.
R.
Don't blame the car - low profile tyres are rubbish in snow and ice. I live on a steep hill which never gets gritted and has just enough traffic to compact soft snow into sheet ice by the evening.
I know my XJ won't go up it, Mrs JS's GTI won't get up either and the neighbours all dump thier cars at the bottom and walk too, but my diseasiel van with it's massive 60BHP and skinny pick and mix Polish tyres ambles up in third without a hint of a skid - that is until I get to the top and use the handbrake instead of the steering wheel to turn round
I know my XJ won't go up it, Mrs JS's GTI won't get up either and the neighbours all dump thier cars at the bottom and walk too, but my diseasiel van with it's massive 60BHP and skinny pick and mix Polish tyres ambles up in third without a hint of a skid - that is until I get to the top and use the handbrake instead of the steering wheel to turn round
They are still low profile :-)
I know I got my XJ6 caught in snow a few years ago when the weather caught the local council out and there was no gritting/salting done in the area. Even a very minor slope was an issue, at tick over there wasn't enough power to move, the moment you touched the throttle the wheels span, there was nothing between, fortunately I was able to walk it up by leaving it in ear at tick over and then pushing from the drivers doorway and it was only a very short incline which was causing problems.
That was with Pirrelli P6000 55 section tyres.
I know I got my XJ6 caught in snow a few years ago when the weather caught the local council out and there was no gritting/salting done in the area. Even a very minor slope was an issue, at tick over there wasn't enough power to move, the moment you touched the throttle the wheels span, there was nothing between, fortunately I was able to walk it up by leaving it in ear at tick over and then pushing from the drivers doorway and it was only a very short incline which was causing problems.
That was with Pirrelli P6000 55 section tyres.
Just to add my 2p, had to drive on some significant ice/black ice/cold roads in Hampshire this morning, and the Goodyear F1s (new last month from Micheldever tyres) coped admirably, other than on the blackice on the M4 this morning near Reading. I just used very light throttle almost everywhere, never thought to limit the gears using the J-gate.
I actually enquired about Winter tyres for this car, but was strongly recommended not to due to the availability of replacements if i had a puncture (difficult to get winter tyres in 18" 275/35 etc).
I actually enquired about Winter tyres for this car, but was strongly recommended not to due to the availability of replacements if i had a puncture (difficult to get winter tyres in 18" 275/35 etc).
I've driven my X308 XJR in snow before. Took me a great deal of headscratching and little progress before I realised I needed to turn off the traction control.
It was straightforward after that, just using the J-gate as mentioned and driving suitably for the conditions as you would in any car. ABS coped with snow much better than my previous XJ40.
It was straightforward after that, just using the J-gate as mentioned and driving suitably for the conditions as you would in any car. ABS coped with snow much better than my previous XJ40.
Have to agree with Groomi - driving my X308 in the snow is hopeless really and the only way the car will cope sometimes is with the traction control switched off.
The wheels still spin, but at least you can move off the mark. Seems strange, but does work - for me anyway!
Still think they're not the best cars in icy weather, but since it doesn't happen too often; a small price to pay
The wheels still spin, but at least you can move off the mark. Seems strange, but does work - for me anyway!
Still think they're not the best cars in icy weather, but since it doesn't happen too often; a small price to pay
Leaper, I keep the traction control on - if it interferes you're using too much welly.
I have the standard 16" wheels without the very low profile tyres but then so did my last car. I thought the difference might be that the S-Type has almost 50-50 weight distribution whereas my last had almost all of the weight over the front wheels which weren't being driven.
I have the standard 16" wheels without the very low profile tyres but then so did my last car. I thought the difference might be that the S-Type has almost 50-50 weight distribution whereas my last had almost all of the weight over the front wheels which weren't being driven.
Thanks for all the advice from PHers on this thread.
The road here today has improved marginally: it's still rutted ice and looks dreadful but it has improved just a bit probably due to some traffic. Living near the end of a cul de sac on an bit of an incline is not good having an S Type when there's snow and ice about!
Anyway, having not been able to get my S Type out of here since Sunday, this evening I was successful. This was due to a combination of newish tyres at the right pressures, using the J box in 2nd and the DSC off, and very light throttle. I just about made it.
By the way, Beauford, assuming you have the 6 speed auto box in your S Type, are you aware that if you DO NOT activate the sport setting the car always pulls away in 2nd rather than 1st, whereas if you DO activate sport mode it pulls away in 1st? So, if you left it in D it would pull away in 2nd anyway and of course change up if appropriate. Using the J box in 2nd to hold the gears there is a good idea, or maybe activating sport and D and getting 1st keeping revs really low might be good too.
Separately, the OH's Fiesta was a doddle and just great fun on the ice and snow around here!
R.
The road here today has improved marginally: it's still rutted ice and looks dreadful but it has improved just a bit probably due to some traffic. Living near the end of a cul de sac on an bit of an incline is not good having an S Type when there's snow and ice about!
Anyway, having not been able to get my S Type out of here since Sunday, this evening I was successful. This was due to a combination of newish tyres at the right pressures, using the J box in 2nd and the DSC off, and very light throttle. I just about made it.
By the way, Beauford, assuming you have the 6 speed auto box in your S Type, are you aware that if you DO NOT activate the sport setting the car always pulls away in 2nd rather than 1st, whereas if you DO activate sport mode it pulls away in 1st? So, if you left it in D it would pull away in 2nd anyway and of course change up if appropriate. Using the J box in 2nd to hold the gears there is a good idea, or maybe activating sport and D and getting 1st keeping revs really low might be good too.
Separately, the OH's Fiesta was a doddle and just great fun on the ice and snow around here!
R.
reading this with interest....
leaper, are you sure about this with the car not using 1st gear unless in sport mode? do you have the 6-speed zf gearbox?
if so, and if that gearbox is identical to the one in my STR, then i'm confused, because my car DEFINITELY ALWAYS uses 1st gear, regardless of the sport mode being on or off, and UNLIKE my old XJR which worked the way you say. because i remember that distinctly (you could feel the car selecting first if you were stationary, in drive, on the brake, and you select sport mode - you feel a slight thump as it downshifts to first), i know the STR doesn't do it.
unless the R's gearbox is programmed differently to the ones in non-R models?
i always did wonder why they got rid of that feature, because i liked it, you only had insane (as opposed to very quick) acceleration when you specifically wanted it, not all the time, which also made it a bit more of an occasion - less so, when it's always there. it was also smoother, even after driving my R for about 9 months now, if i'm even the tiniest bit heavy-footed, the car just jumps forward, you have to have feather touch on the throttle to pull off smoothly. as my friend (who himself drives nice cars, but not quite as powerful) could testify, who i let drive my car the other day, he kept getting caught out by this, and even activating traction control (in the dry) once.
sorry to the op for (totally) veering off the primary subject of this thread!
leaper, are you sure about this with the car not using 1st gear unless in sport mode? do you have the 6-speed zf gearbox?
if so, and if that gearbox is identical to the one in my STR, then i'm confused, because my car DEFINITELY ALWAYS uses 1st gear, regardless of the sport mode being on or off, and UNLIKE my old XJR which worked the way you say. because i remember that distinctly (you could feel the car selecting first if you were stationary, in drive, on the brake, and you select sport mode - you feel a slight thump as it downshifts to first), i know the STR doesn't do it.
unless the R's gearbox is programmed differently to the ones in non-R models?
i always did wonder why they got rid of that feature, because i liked it, you only had insane (as opposed to very quick) acceleration when you specifically wanted it, not all the time, which also made it a bit more of an occasion - less so, when it's always there. it was also smoother, even after driving my R for about 9 months now, if i'm even the tiniest bit heavy-footed, the car just jumps forward, you have to have feather touch on the throttle to pull off smoothly. as my friend (who himself drives nice cars, but not quite as powerful) could testify, who i let drive my car the other day, he kept getting caught out by this, and even activating traction control (in the dry) once.
sorry to the op for (totally) veering off the primary subject of this thread!
Edited by vladman on Thursday 8th January 15:16
Leaper,
I have the 5-speed transmission, 2002 model. The autobox changes very smoothly, and TBH I've not actually noticed if 1st is always selected or not. The Handbook for my model says that when the J-gate is used the autobox will not engage a gear higher than the one selected, which sort of infers that 1 may still be engaged even when 2 is selected, although I've not noticed it. The snow has eased off now, but the next time I'll pay more attention and try to detect if there is a change from 1 to 2 when I've selected 2.
During the snow and ice this year is the first time I've ever used the J-gate and I like it, especially on steep icy hills.
I have the 5-speed transmission, 2002 model. The autobox changes very smoothly, and TBH I've not actually noticed if 1st is always selected or not. The Handbook for my model says that when the J-gate is used the autobox will not engage a gear higher than the one selected, which sort of infers that 1 may still be engaged even when 2 is selected, although I've not noticed it. The snow has eased off now, but the next time I'll pay more attention and try to detect if there is a change from 1 to 2 when I've selected 2.
During the snow and ice this year is the first time I've ever used the J-gate and I like it, especially on steep icy hills.
Hi Vlad, welcome back here. I guess having an STR now has given you uneventful motoring after the XJR, hence your absence!
I have an S-Type 4.2 V8 SE first registered 31.12.2003(therefore the "second edition" S Type and just ahead of the "third edition") which has the ZF 6 speed box. As for 1st gear only becoming engaged in sport mode, I think I read about this on the PH Jaguar thread some time ago, and I also think this is the way my car operates although it's been quite a while since I really checked it out by a faster getaway. I'll do so and report back. I've always assumed that the reason for this set up is to maintain the so-called Jaguar Experience of ultra smooth driving, leaving me to engage sport mode for something more exciting but less smooth. Maybe the STR gearbox software is programmed to behave differently ie 1st is always available when the J gate is in D whether or not sport mode is applied.
Beauford, previously I had an S-Type 4.0L V8, the first edition S-Type, with the 5 speed box, which is probably the same as in your car. I have to say the 6 speeder is a vast improvement, as is the whole car IMHO.
R.
I have an S-Type 4.2 V8 SE first registered 31.12.2003(therefore the "second edition" S Type and just ahead of the "third edition") which has the ZF 6 speed box. As for 1st gear only becoming engaged in sport mode, I think I read about this on the PH Jaguar thread some time ago, and I also think this is the way my car operates although it's been quite a while since I really checked it out by a faster getaway. I'll do so and report back. I've always assumed that the reason for this set up is to maintain the so-called Jaguar Experience of ultra smooth driving, leaving me to engage sport mode for something more exciting but less smooth. Maybe the STR gearbox software is programmed to behave differently ie 1st is always available when the J gate is in D whether or not sport mode is applied.
Beauford, previously I had an S-Type 4.0L V8, the first edition S-Type, with the 5 speed box, which is probably the same as in your car. I have to say the 6 speeder is a vast improvement, as is the whole car IMHO.
R.
My S Type is manual and was as interesting in the snow as any rwd with lowish profile tyres can be, traction control off is a must!
The XJ remained in the garage as it will do until the sun shines, I don't think it would be very good in snow without chains. If truth be told, when it was realy slippy I pinched Mrs Bats Gaylander leaving her to have plenty of sideways fun with the MX5
She remins unimpressed. 
The XJ remained in the garage as it will do until the sun shines, I don't think it would be very good in snow without chains. If truth be told, when it was realy slippy I pinched Mrs Bats Gaylander leaving her to have plenty of sideways fun with the MX5
She remins unimpressed. The issue is entirely with the tyres.
I learnt this is 1999 driving an S-Type in the snow on Pirelli P-Zeros. When the tyres were changed to an all-season tyre the car was absolutely fantastic in the snow and ice.
The winter tyres are even better.
The profile has little to do with it, it's the construction, compound & tread combination that makes all the difference.
I learnt this is 1999 driving an S-Type in the snow on Pirelli P-Zeros. When the tyres were changed to an all-season tyre the car was absolutely fantastic in the snow and ice.
The winter tyres are even better.
The profile has little to do with it, it's the construction, compound & tread combination that makes all the difference.
The Leaper said:
Hi Vlad, welcome back here. I guess having an STR now has given you uneventful motoring after the XJR, hence your absence!
hey leaper, thanks for the welcome, although i hadn't really "gone" anywhere... i've been around, reading, but not posting much - you could say you're right, and the ownership of the STR (touch wood, cross fingers, so as not to jinx it!) has been uneventful thus far. this is not to say, for those considering an xjr, that it's an unreliable car - it's just in my case there was a difficult to detect and diagnose fault when i first bought it which took some time to sort, and after it was fixed (faulty mass airflow sensor), the car was great!The Leaper said:
I have an S-Type 4.2 V8 SE first registered 31.12.2003(therefore the "second edition" S Type and just ahead of the "third edition") which has the ZF 6 speed box. As for 1st gear only becoming engaged in sport mode, I think I read about this on the PH Jaguar thread some time ago, and I also think this is the way my car operates although it's been quite a while since I really checked it out by a faster getaway. I'll do so and report back. I've always assumed that the reason for this set up is to maintain the so-called Jaguar Experience of ultra smooth driving, leaving me to engage sport mode for something more exciting but less smooth. Maybe the STR gearbox software is programmed to behave differently ie 1st is always available when the J gate is in D whether or not sport mode is applied.
My car's first registered October 2002, and being an STR, it was already a facelift (in fact, my car is a MY2003 model, even though it was sold in 2002, so I think we have the identical gearbox) - really intrigued by this now, didn't know/think the gearbox in non-supercharged models would be programmed to work differently - would be interested to see what you find when you do some testing.groomi said:
I've driven my X308 XJR in snow before. Took me a great deal of headscratching and little progress before I realised I needed to turn off the traction control.
It was straightforward after that, just using the J-gate as mentioned and driving suitably for the conditions as you would in any car. ABS coped with snow much better than my previous XJ40.
I've just been out in the snow with Vredestein Ultrac Sessanta's on and they are much, much, much better than the old Pirelli P-Zeros. There is enough grip to to pull away still with traction control on (in most situations) which makes it much easier to drive.It was straightforward after that, just using the J-gate as mentioned and driving suitably for the conditions as you would in any car. ABS coped with snow much better than my previous XJ40.
I therefore now agree with a previous poster, that it really is all in the tyres.
Gassing Station | Jaguar | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff