1980s f1: did this ever happen

[williamp]

was talking with my Dad the other day and he reminded me of something which we think happened in the 80s.

WE had not long got into watching motor racing, so I would have been quite young- less then 13, and not knowing all the rules, but after one race weith a confused ending my Dad explained that Senna had won the race despite stopping as "he would have won, had he finished the lap", so he was classed as a winner. I seem to recall it meant Mansell didnt win, and we both felt they were favouring Senna over Mansell.

Its a vague memory from the 80s, but did it ever happen like that?

[FourWheelDrift]

Only if it was the last lap and he was 2 laps or more in front so the best the 2nd place person could do was get one lap back and still be 2nd. Having completed over the requisite number of laps to be classed as a finisher Senna could then stop on the last lap and still be classed as winner because he is still one lap in front, but I don't ever recall that happening.

[900T-R]

Or if the last lap was so tumultuous all round due to the conditions suddendly turning 'undriveable' that the race had officially been aborted on the penultimate lap, and the result was the order of passing the finish line the last time before abortion of the race.

Edited by 900T-R on Tuesday 6th January 11:51

[GAjon]

I'm fairly sure the winner would still have to take the chequered flag, no matter what.
The nearest I can remember anything similar to this is Schumacher winning the British GP in the pits whilst taking a stop/go penalty.

[dougc]

If a race is red-flagged, positions are taken at the last time the leader crossed the line. If that was Senna and he subsequently stuffed it, blew up etc and the flag was shown before the second place man (now first) completed the lap then Senna wins.

[FourWheelDrift]

Closest 2 in the 1980's that were in the Senna years that might cause the confusion were the 1989 San Marino GP where it was scheduled for 61 laps, but was stopped after 3 laps and restarted over 55 laps and included the 3 laps previously run in the timed results. Senna won the race from Prost by 50 seconds.

The second race being the Phoenix GP of the same year which was scheduled for 81 laps but stopped after 75 due to the 2hour rule. Prost won that one though.




Are you sure your recollection isn't from a Saturday qualifying session televised from Silverstone?

Edited by FourWheelDrift on Tuesday 6th January 12:24

[MHM]

dougc said:

If a race is red-flagged, positions are taken at the last time the leader crossed the line. If that was Senna and he subsequently stuffed it, blew up etc and the flag was shown before the second place man (now first) completed the lap then Senna wins.

Its the last car on the lead lap that makes the difference a'la Brazil when Fisi won, you can go back almost 2 full laps in an instance where the leader might be about to lap a car as they start a lap.

It might have been a situation like that.

[Eric Mc]

I have virtually all the GPs from 1983 onwards on tape and I cannot recall that particular situation ever happening.

Mansell did konk out on the final lap of the 1991 Canadian GP and ended up 6th because the last person on the same lap as him was 5th. Anyone else who overtook him, even though he'd stopped out on the cicuit, still had at least another lap to complete - but there were no more laps available.

[heebeegeetee]

I don't recall that, but didn't Schumacher win once despite having to serve a stop and go penalty, which he served after the race had finished? never did understand that one.

[FourWheelDrift]

heebeegeetee said:

I don't recall that, but didn't Schumacher win once despite having to serve a stop and go penalty, which he served after the race had finished? never did understand that one.

I was there that year, got a stop go which had to be served within a certain number of laps, but there were less laps to go in the race. Never quite sure if Schumacher new it was the last lap (it was very wet race day) or that his pitbox made him cross the line in the pits, however the pits are part of the race track so he didn't do anything outside the rules.

[rude-boy]

heebeegeetee said:

I don't recall that, but didn't Schumacher win once despite having to serve a stop and go penalty, which he served after the race had finished? never did understand that one.

The penalty was awarded 3 laps from the end. They have 3 laps to take this and so MS came in on the 3rd lap which was alos the final one of the race.

It has always interested me though as the finishing line was further down the road than the Ferrari pit was, yet the sensor in the pit lane was sighted at it's entrance, which was before the pit box...

[RichB]

These days of course they wouldn't issue a stop/go with only 3 laps to go, they would instead look at the incident after the race and then decide Hamilton was responsible.

[heebeegeetee]

rude-boy said:

It has always interested me though as the finishing line was further down the road than the Ferrari pit was,

That was how i understood it, so therefore he hadn't finished the race when he stopped, but the race stopped when the second place car crossed the line, but MS was still apprently the winner.

It seemed as though he never served the penalty in race time, and didn't have penalty-time added to his actual time either.

[scottishmarshal]

The finish line at Silverstone is back from the main bridge, not sure about this race though but as far as I know currently the F1 start line is at the Vodaphone bridge but the finish line is just after the track straighens up so is just before the 1st garage - just look at footage of where the chequered flag comes from. So even if Ferrari were at the posh end of the pitlane technically they will have crossed the finish line, all be it the other side of the wall!! Have a look on google earth, you can see the F1 grid and right at the back the thick chequered line.

[heebeegeetee]

scottishmarshal said:

The finish line at Silverstone is back from the main bridge, not sure about this race though but as far as I know currently the F1 start line is at the Vodaphone bridge but the finish line is just after the track straighens up so is just before the 1st garage - just look at footage of where the chequered flag comes from. So even if Ferrari were at the posh end of the pitlane technically they will have crossed the finish line, all be it the other side of the wall!! Have a look on google earth, you can see the F1 grid and right at the back the thick chequered line.

OK, but if he crossed the finish line before serving his penalty, surely that meant he served his penalty after the race had finished? Where was the Hamilton 25 secs penalty if he couldn't serve his penalty beforehand?

It seemed to me at the time that he was notified of his penalty with three laps to go, and the penalty must be served within three laps.