newbie to be... which one is better and why?

[rbs13]

hello every one, im planing on getting a new toy
i have always wanted a caterham 7 but now days there's so many replica types for alot less.
im not sure what too go for? there's so many options and different ones!!

i would like it if some one had a nice one that would be interested in my toy :
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&am...

be happy for one around £5-7k and cash my way kind of thing.

if i sell for cash (have a few people very interested) what is the best?

i like:
a caterham style ones
fast & reliable
good on fuel
good handling
nice to drive
happy too go sideways.

also some think that will happy on a track day or 2.

what do you guys recommend?

[Snake the Sniper]

What counts as reliable to you? And good on fuel? Most 7's are fun to drive, but quite what you want will determine what you look at. Some consider bike engined cars (BECs) to be unreliable, too loud and a PITA. Others have a different view. Some prefer car engined cars (CECs), as they tend to be a bit easier to drive on longer distances, and can be a bit better on fuel, but are generally slower and less extreme. They also have a reverse gear as standard. Once you have decided what sort of engine you want, you can also look at what chassis/manufacturer you prefer. Most 7's are basically the same under the skin. Some are more advanced, ie Caterhams, Westfield and MNR last time I looked. The others don't tend to have such a depth of testing and work done on them, although that isn't to say that they can't be made to handle very well with a bit of extra work. Also, don't discount the home made Locosts. Just because a bloke made it himself, doesn't mean it's a pig of a death trap. The chassis is basically a copy of the pre-lit Westfield, which was a rip off of the Caterham at the time. For a good view on most of the manufacturers, and a chance to blag a ride, pop over to www.Locostbuilders.co.uk. A good friendly bunch always willing to help out a fellow 7 owner.

[juansolo]

For up to £7k I'd be looking to get a Striker. Superb cars and awesome on track.

[rbs13]

i think i want a bike powerd one due too the sound of them, but want some think very quick but also not too bad on fuel.
also some think that would not break on a track day with loads of abuse.

[hugh_]

My fireblade powered Fury was typically doing ~20mpg; but it was driven as BECs should be. 8mpg on track. 32mpg on the (very gentle) drive back when I collected it.

[Snake the Sniper]

For a simple, unlikely to break set up, anything with an R1 or blade engine will do. They may not be the fastest BECs, but with a baffle plate fitted, you won't blow one up. Any BEC will be quick. Most are geared to do 0-60 in 4-5 secs, and tend to top out somewhere between 115-130ish, depending upon gearing and engine. Mine should do 0-60 in about 4-4.5 and hits the limiter in 6th at 125, that's with a limiter of 10,750 rpm.

[dean100yz]

Snake the Sniper said:

For a simple, unlikely to break set up, anything with an R1 or blade engine will do. They may not be the fastest BECs, but with a baffle plate fitted, you won't blow one up. Any BEC will be quick. Most are geared to do 0-60 in 4-5 secs, and tend to top out somewhere between 115-130ish, depending upon gearing and engine. Mine should do 0-60 in about 4-4.5 and hits the limiter in 6th at 125, that's with a limiter of 10,750 rpm.

Id say the same. I bought mine about 90% complete. Have been finishing it off since. MK & MAC1 are both high up there

Honda engines are solid. Ive come from a long line of JDM cars and superbikes. This ticks all the right boxes. Performance is fine upto 100 after its crap but for what I want its all I need

Your budget will get you a nice one im sure. Prices vary alot depending on spec, year and build quality but as a rough guide it'd get you similar to what I have approx 03-06 with bike engine

[rbs13]

cant beleive how many mile per gallan they do i thought due to the weight and low cc engine they would return at least 30mpg

[hugh_]

Remember 7's have the aerodynamics of a brick...

[Sam_68]

hugh_ said:

Remember 7's have the aerodynamics of a brick...

Actually, that's a lie. They are considerably worse than a brick!

They also usually have engines with lumpy camshafts and big carburettors, and are driven without a great deal of restraint.

Judging by the OP's profilethe requirement for lots of oversteer might be a problem. You can get the back end out on any 'Seven' type, but it's not their natural mode of behaviour when set up correctly and it's certainly not the quickest way to drive one... they're no good as drift cars!

If it wasn't for the oversteer and the desire for something that looks like a Seven, I'd be inclined to suggest that an S1 Elise would be a better idea.

Edited by Sam_68 on Saturday 7th March 11:10

[dean100yz]

Sam_68 said:

hugh_ said:

Remember 7's have the aerodynamics of a brick...

Judging by the OP's profilethe requirement for lots of oversteer might be a problem. You can get the back end out on any 'Seven' type, but it's not their natural mode of behaviour when set up correctly and it's certainly not the quickest way to drive one... they're no good as drift cars!

Edited by Sam_68 on Saturday 7th March 11:10

Id agree with this too. Ive found mine (again being quite a newbie to this) comes out easy enough but is no drifter. You can get around 1/2 a big r/bout before it decides to go. Maybe its my driving but it certainly doesnt seem as comfortable as my old skyline or beemer. Its much more twitchy on the back though and w/out good rubber its hard getting the power down when pinned in 1st or 2nd out of corners etc!

[Furyous]

rbs13 said:

also some think that would not break on a track day with loads of abuse.

My Fury with a Kawa 9R lump did 4 years constant track days on the same motor, and is still going strong now as far as I know.

And thats a 12k red line.

[gixermark]

why worry about mpg for a track toy ?? fuel is not the biggest cost for track toys !!

BECs are fun and cheap to run.. light weight = easy on tyres/brakes etc etc... and great fun...

[bobbus]

Sam_68 said:

Judging by the OP's profile the requirement for lots of oversteer might be a problem. You can get the back end out on any 'Seven' type, but it's not their natural mode of behaviour when set up correctly and it's certainly not the quickest way to drive one... they're no good as drift cars!

You've obviously never seen Martin Brooks race in RGB. He manages to drive sideways at crazy angles while still managing to win races. Although for most people (well, pretty much everyone) driving like this is just pure fantasy, and they would never be able to get close to speed/angles in this type of car.

I only have one video of Martin's driving exploits, unfortunately it's not one of his most sideways races but it still gives you an idea (Martin is the one in front for most of the race):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyZreCUfb-c

Enjoy.

[antnicuk]

BEC's give poor economy as even at cruising most are doing 6000 plus rpm. My Thunderace wont return more than about 40mph driving nicely


It sounds like may want your cake and eat it so to speak. Power, reliability and fuel economy.

REC's are the way forward IMHO its the only way to get all 3

[juansolo]

Sam_68 said:

Judging by the OP's profilethe requirement for lots of oversteer might be a problem. You can get the back end out on any 'Seven' type, but it's not their natural mode of behaviour when set up correctly and it's certainly not the quickest way to drive one... they're no good as drift cars!

If it wasn't for the oversteer and the desire for something that looks like a Seven, I'd be inclined to suggest that an S1 Elise would be a better idea.

Not sure I agree with that... I think the answer is; it depends. This is me gooning a very well set up Caterham Superlight on standard 6" all round wheels with A539's on them. Not a great deal of power, but you can stick it sideways at very silly angles and hold it there all day. Wet or dry. This is me later behaving chasing an R400 for a few laps (sorry for the length of these vids BTW). So driven more smoothly it still goes well. Fitted with the same fat avons as the R400 (8" rears) it actually handles 'properly' as in, it would be a good race setup. Far more grip than power in the Superlight, but it forces you to drive properly. If speed is your ultimate goal, it can give you a bad neck by the end of the day. A simple change of wheels/tyres giving both forms of fun on the same car. Personally I prefer the narrow tyres only as you can still make reasonable progress with them and I prefer the car a lot more lively. Also I'm not racing so ultimate speed is not my goal.

My Westfield however is a slightly different kettle of fish, it doesn't have the lock available of the Caterham, but will power out of corners with a nice bit of angle on it no problem. It doesn't really want to goon, but can do mildly. If I went wide track at the front and removed the lock stops it would make life a lot easier. Also going to something like A539s. However the Westie has a different character to the Caterham, it's sort of halfway between the two extremes of loadsa-grip and goon on demand. I like it so I leave it be. However my old Westfield was pure brutality. It was a Cossie narrow with lots of power and lots of lock. That you just sort of threw into corners and dealt with it on the way around. Top fun, if a lot of work. But again, with practice, you could goon it for England. Being live axle and a plate diff made a lot of difference when it came to the goonage. That particular set up seemed very suited to it.

Edited by juansolo on Monday 9th March 16:55

[Hobzy]

antnicuk said:

BEC's give poor economy as even at cruising most are doing 6000 plus rpm. My Thunderace wont return more than about 40mph driving nicely


It sounds like may want your cake and eat it so to speak. Power, reliability and fuel economy.

REC's are the way forward IMHO its the only way to get all 3

Not that your biased

[antnicuk]

i just love having an alternative to the BEC v CEC argument ..... it alsso helps that its quicker than both .......

back to topic, having played with the suspension on the stylus, it is very easy to alter the characteristics of the car just by adjusting the wedge (front/rear ride heights) which alows me to set it how i like which is zero understeer and lots of drift action, Also having 330 torques helps when it comes to playing with the back end. I'm not racing so prefer it to be fun.

I'm hoping to do a DWYB at the pod soon so i will see how well it drifts and report back. Only issue i can see is i cant reach the handbrake with a harness on!

Edited by antnicuk on Monday 9th March 16:44

[juansolo]

rbs13 said:

i think i want a bike powerd one due too the sound of them, but want some think very quick but also not too bad on fuel.
also some think that would not break on a track day with loads of abuse.

Hmmm, you ain't gonna get that from a BEC. If you want something reasonably quick which is reliable and good on fuel I can heartily recommend a standard 2.0 Zetec on throttle bodies. Be sensible with your 5th gear (ie, keep a nice long 5th) an you can easily pull 40mpg at 70mph on the motorway. Mine on track only drops to high 20's/low 30's. It's bonkersly good. Also, being a boggo engine it'll be reliable and if it does pop, cheap as chips to just swap another one in. However if you want to go properly fast, it's going to cost you in terms of fuel and more than likely maintenance/reliability. Power doesn't come for free.

But there's a lot to be said for the BEC. As you say, there's the noise and there's also the sequential box. They are wonderful things. I'm currently punting a friend's Radical Clubsport around and am enjoying it thoroughly. Still wouldn't part with the 7, given the choice of the two. Of course the simple answer is to get one of each

EDIT: or a rotary

Edited by juansolo on Monday 9th March 16:49

[antnicuk]

.
[/quote]

Hmmm, you ain't gonna get that from a BEC. If you want something reasonably quick which is reliable and good on fuel I can heartily recommend a standard 2.0 Zetec on throttle bodies. Be sensible with your 5th gear (ie, keep a nice long 5th) an you can easily pull 40mpg at 70mph on the motorway. Mine on track only drops to high 20's/low 30's. It's bonkersly good. Also, being a boggo engine it'll be reliable and if it does pop, cheap as chips to just swap another one in. However if you want to go properly fast, it's going to cost you in terms of fuel and more than likely maintenance/reliability. Power doesn't come for free.

B
[/quote]


^^^^^^ never a truer word said.......