Proliferation of speed cameras
Discussion
Just read the Autocar article about speed cameras and decided to extrapolate the figures supplied a little. Basically it casts a frightening picture:
Because 2001 is the last year for published figures for total tickets issued (why?) you can bring that forward to 2003... if that is the case you end up with something like this:
2001 - issued 1.4M tickets
2003 - should be around the 2.4M tickets (growth of use of cameras etc)
2006 - estimated to be around 6M tickets (again growth of use of cameras)
What that means is that we have an increasingly penalised population:
1998 - 1 in 10 had points
2003 - 1 in 6 had points
2008 - 1 in 3 will have points
Oh, and at current average of £30 per ticket issued, you are looking at raising over £200M from the public by the use of cameras (please note I have added in inflation etc here).
They say its not a tax. They say its driver safety (but the evidence shows no signs of improvement - in fact got worse) and they say that behaviour will change (its getting worse)..... Worthwhile expenditure of public funds to allow for the criminalisation of 33% of the population? I think not.....
Are you worried yet?
Because 2001 is the last year for published figures for total tickets issued (why?) you can bring that forward to 2003... if that is the case you end up with something like this:
2001 - issued 1.4M tickets
2003 - should be around the 2.4M tickets (growth of use of cameras etc)
2006 - estimated to be around 6M tickets (again growth of use of cameras)
What that means is that we have an increasingly penalised population:
1998 - 1 in 10 had points
2003 - 1 in 6 had points
2008 - 1 in 3 will have points
Oh, and at current average of £30 per ticket issued, you are looking at raising over £200M from the public by the use of cameras (please note I have added in inflation etc here).
They say its not a tax. They say its driver safety (but the evidence shows no signs of improvement - in fact got worse) and they say that behaviour will change (its getting worse)..... Worthwhile expenditure of public funds to allow for the criminalisation of 33% of the population? I think not.....
Are you worried yet?
Sorry to be a killjoy to all you "boy racers" out there, but I can't see what all the fuss is about, if you stuck to the speed limit and did not break the law, you would have nothing to worry about.
If you don't rob a bank you won't go to jail, common sense!
Anyhow, speed entrapment devices are nothing new, I was done for 44 in a 30 in Bolton way back in 1973.
2 BiB hiding behind a brick wall with a radar trap!
Mind you, I might have a different view if I didn't have a clean licence....
If you don't rob a bank you won't go to jail, common sense!
Anyhow, speed entrapment devices are nothing new, I was done for 44 in a 30 in Bolton way back in 1973.
2 BiB hiding behind a brick wall with a radar trap!
Mind you, I might have a different view if I didn't have a clean licence....
Wacky Racer said:
Mind you, I might have a different view if I didn't have a clean licence....
Thats the problem - I am also LUCKY enough to have a clean license. But the issue is that 1 in 6 (the current prosecution level) doesnt mean that 1 in 6 are boy racers - they are everyday folk who have been caught, usually after a momentary slip in concentration. This will increase and we will criminialise a huge percentage of the population for a single mistake....
Wacky Racer said:
Sorry to be a killjoy to all you "boy racers" out there, but I can't see what all the fuss is about, if you stuck to the speed limit and did not break the law, you would have nothing to worry about.
If you don't rob a bank you won't go to jail, common sense!
Anyhow, speed entrapment devices are nothing new, I was done for 44 in a 30 in Bolton way back in 1973.
2 BiB hiding behind a brick wall with a radar trap!
Mind you, I might have a different view if I didn't have a clean licence....
And I'm sure you will. I am a member of the IAM. I have also applied to RoADA (Rospa) to take their test. I am absolutely committed to improving road safety in Britain by improving the standard of driving of anyone who will listen and come and take one of the Advanced Tests.
I can hardly be described as a boy racer either.
I have three points on my licence. Its a well known PH story how I got them but to summarise it was my own incompetence in understanding what the speed limit was on a rare road layout. 60 not 70 even though there were two lanes.
If I'd been stopped by a copper, given some stern advice it would have had a much better effect than recieving the NIP - at least I'd have known what I did wrong. In this case I had to go asking some of the Class 1 guys on here as to what the problem was!
Sure as an Advanced driver you'd have thought I'd have known - but, like I say, it was a layout new to me at the time and I didn't.
So. There are plenty of people who knowingly speed and when caught have no excuse (frankly I'm one of them when I'm out having fun on the back-roads I know) - but there are plenty who are being criminalised, made to feel antipathy towards the justice system in this country, and asked for £60 in a way that is, whilst perfectly legal, not very reasonable.
I would have a great deal more sympathy with electronic enforcement if safety cameras were genuinely that.
For example - one could site a speed and video camera prior to a blind bend. This would encourage drivers to enter the bend at a safe speed and also catch idiots who overtake into the blind bend. Instead these cameras are placed around the blind bend so that those travelling through it too quickly are caught after the fact and will be coughing up their £60.
Nothing to do with safety and everything to do with catching out those new to the area for their money.
I have seen well sited GATSOs. But the vast majority I have seen are placed so as to catch speeders rather than encourage a safe approach to a hazard.
For this reason, although I am a law-abiding citizen, and a committed Road Safety campaigner - who puts his money where is mouth is by actually training drivers as an Observer with the IAM - I cannot support these vile machines.
And its because of how they are used. Its cynical and unworthy of the Britain I'd like to live in.
keithyboy said:
. . . we will criminalise a huge percentage of the population for a single mistake ...
A bit of a dramatic statement IMHO"minor motoring offences" do not appear on a CRB (Criminal Records Bureau) disclosure (either regular or enhanced) or on a PNC check.
Yeah, but makes a better dramatic statement doesnt it? You are 100% right of course....
pbrettle said:
Where have you seen these cameras? Do tell - yet to see one myself... hens teeth and all that...
There was a really good one in Wiltshire. To be fair it wasn't a GATSO it was an illuminated sign and camera which informed me that I was approaching a 90 degree blind right hander over a hump backed bridge a bit too quick...
I had spotted it. But was still being a bit "optimistic" with my approach speed. The sign gave me plenty of time to react and get my speed right down before the hazard. Even if I'd been a total numpty and hadn't been looking for the vanishing point I could not have failed to know what the problem was in front of me due to that sign.
Well placed. Helpful. And I'm sure reduced accidents at what is a tricky bit of road layout.
Wacky Racer said:
Sorry to be a killjoy to all you "boy racers" out there, but I can't see what all the fuss is about, if you stuck to the speed limit and did not break the law, you would have nothing to worry about.
If you don't rob a bank you won't go to jail, common sense!
The whole issue of speed scameras appears to have whistled over your head at some altitude. Speed enforcement in general is not the problem. The goverments interpretation is the problem. By automating the process of catching speeders and fining them, do you think they are really acheiving their objectives of safer roads, or have they found a nice little earner?
No matter what name the goverment likes to give them, so called "safety cameras" have very little to do with saftey. They can only detect a car travveling above a preset limit, and are not able to measure the saftey of the situation in any way whatsoever. A police officer, howvere, can use his experience to judge if someone is actually endangering lives or is simply "making progress" in a safe manner.
keithyboy said:
. . . we will criminalise a huge percentage of the population for a single mistake ...
A BIT OF A DRAMATIC STATEMENT IMHO
Think so eh.........?
mybrainhurts said:
They need to recruit 4,500 new magistrates to handle cases diverted from jury trials.
But they're having to reject applicants with speeding points, so they can't meet their target.
Mr2Mike said:
Sorry to be a killjoy to all you "boy racers" out there, but I can't see what all the fuss is about, if you stuck to the speed limit and did not break the law, you would have nothing to worry about.
If you don't rob a bank you won't go to jail, common sense!
The whole issue of speed scameras appears to have whistled over your head at some altitude. Speed enforcement in general is not the problem. The goverments interpretation is the problem. By automating the process of catching speeders and fining them, do you think they are really acheiving their objectives of safer roads, or have they found a nice little earner?
No matter what name the goverment likes to give them, so called "safety cameras" have very little to do with saftey. They can only detect a car travveling above a preset limit, and are not able to measure the saftey of the situation in any way whatsoever. A police officer, howvere, can use his experience to judge if someone is actually endangering lives or is simply "making progress" in a safe manner.
Fair comment, and I must admit I did make my original posting rather tongue in cheek, hoping to provoke a response, however I don't think any REASONABLE person would object to a CLEARLY MARKED speed camera sited on the approach to some school gates on a fast road for example....
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I am absolutely committed to improving road safety in Britain by improving the standard of driving of anyone who will listen and come and take one of the Advanced Tests.
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do tell me more mate. looking for somewhere to do an advanced drivin course kinda ting
I am absolutely committed to improving road safety in Britain by improving the standard of driving of anyone who will listen and come and take one of the Advanced Tests.
-----------------
do tell me more mate. looking for somewhere to do an advanced drivin course kinda ting
millasur said:
do tell me more mate. looking for somewhere to do an advanced drivin course kinda ting
Join your local IAM or ROSPA (RoADA) group. The whole shebang will cost you no more than £80 and you can have as much instruction as it takes to pass for that.
I'll warn you now that there is an element in both organisations that is entirely brainwashed by the speed kills bollocks but there are just as many who take a more tolerant/pragmatic/sensible view.
You will need to stick to speed limits during such a course. If you do not they can only fail you - whatever they may personally think. Not only that the examiner is a Class 1 Police Driver - how rude would it be to put the poor chap(ess) in the position of needing to book you!
But an advanced course will certainly change the way you drive. You will be MUCH faster on some roads and you will almost certainly be slower on others - the chief thing learnt is how to make progress (even the maximum possible progress within the law) in safety. YOu'd be amazed at how many drivers are incapable of maintaining a reasonable speed once in the twisties because they haven't been taught how to judge bends properly. That and how many barrel into corners with no real appreciation of what might be just around them.
I wholeheartedly recommend Advanced Training with whichever group is most local and convenient for you to hook up with.
Even if you do not decide to go on and take the test you will learn something...if you keep your mind open and your brain thinking.
All the best and good luck. Go for it.
pbrettle said:
I have seen well sited GATSOs. But the vast majority I have seen are placed so as to catch speeders rather than encourage a safe approach to a hazard.
Where have you seen these cameras? Do tell - yet to see one myself... hens teeth and all that...
A355 entering Slough from the North. 30mph limit - camera by school. Although I think a 20mph limit should also apply in school morning/evening hours.
A404 Hazlemere, nr High Wycombe - Camera right by entrance to infants school. Could have been sighted 100m earlier IMO, but it slows people down.
I don't like cameras, and most appear to be empty anyway, but SOME are correctly positioned/used.
Trefor/.
Clean license at the moment, and doing my best to keep it so.
millasur said:
do tell me more mate. looking for somewhere to do an advanced drivin course kinda ting
www.iam.org.uk/
www.roada.org.uk/
Edited to add, if you've cash to splash there are these too and many more:
www.ridedrive.co.uk/index2.htm
www.hpc2001.co.uk/
>> Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 22 October 16:28
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