Europa Engine Map
Discussion
Just wondered if there is any way to fix the ECU map in the Europa. I think it's a great car, but that's the one thing that would finish it off. I've got the Lotus 225hp upgrade and a Milltekl exhaust, which helps, but "curve" is still too optimistic a way to describe the power delivery!
I know Thorney did an ECU upgrade before Lotus, but think they had problems with corrupted ECUs. I also see that Superchips do one - is that the same as Thorney's, and was it superceded by the Lotus factory one? Is it possible to replace the ECU completey, and how does it differ from the ECU that was on the engine originally in the VX220?
Any info appreciated, thanks
I know Thorney did an ECU upgrade before Lotus, but think they had problems with corrupted ECUs. I also see that Superchips do one - is that the same as Thorney's, and was it superceded by the Lotus factory one? Is it possible to replace the ECU completey, and how does it differ from the ECU that was on the engine originally in the VX220?
Any info appreciated, thanks
The superchips one is the same as the Thorney one. I think John has stopped doing them as he struggled with the mapping too. If you look on the VX220.org forum there is talk of re mapping but no one seems to have a definite cure.
The best thing to do at the moment seems to be stick under 4000rpm if you want to go quickly and stick over 4000rpm if you want to go very fast. Also the gearchange light is set a bit low on mine so I don't change on the light but wait 0.5s ish and change then if I am pushing on which stops me falling into the hole in the power curver.
I have noticed in these wet / low grip conditions my head seems to have mapped itself to the engine delivery as I no longer apply throttle in a linear fashion. Even with all the rear grip you have in these cars you still have to learn throttle control.
Hope you are enjoying yours. I have had mine for 1 year now and have done 7k ish in it and love it more and more. On the twist country roads in Oxfordshire they really are bloody quick given the right conditions. In the ice it has been fun a couple of times!
For anyone who uses their car on the road and track I have Toyo T1R tyres on mine and I am very impressed. Great in the wet and loads of grip on a hot track. They may not be the ultimate track tyre but at least you can drive the car in the winter if you have to use it every day. One of the guys at work has the last S1 Exige off the production line and he has A048 on it and uses the car every day. God knows how he has made it in through the snow....he certainly does not know!
The best thing to do at the moment seems to be stick under 4000rpm if you want to go quickly and stick over 4000rpm if you want to go very fast. Also the gearchange light is set a bit low on mine so I don't change on the light but wait 0.5s ish and change then if I am pushing on which stops me falling into the hole in the power curver.
I have noticed in these wet / low grip conditions my head seems to have mapped itself to the engine delivery as I no longer apply throttle in a linear fashion. Even with all the rear grip you have in these cars you still have to learn throttle control.
Hope you are enjoying yours. I have had mine for 1 year now and have done 7k ish in it and love it more and more. On the twist country roads in Oxfordshire they really are bloody quick given the right conditions. In the ice it has been fun a couple of times!
For anyone who uses their car on the road and track I have Toyo T1R tyres on mine and I am very impressed. Great in the wet and loads of grip on a hot track. They may not be the ultimate track tyre but at least you can drive the car in the winter if you have to use it every day. One of the guys at work has the last S1 Exige off the production line and he has A048 on it and uses the car every day. God knows how he has made it in through the snow....he certainly does not know!
Thanks. Agree with all you say - also that I like it more and more! First car I've had for a while that makes you want to jump in and drive for the sake of it, and right size and power for the road. Tried the Elise?exige , which are more of the same, but like the bit of extra comfort that means I get more use out of Europa.
Pity about the map, but you do adjust. It's not bad when you're up and down gears on back roads, but I noticed it more this week which involved a fair bit of single lane roads and overtaking - you put the foot done to go past and keep it down, and it's probably the first car I've had where the speed increase doesn't feel constant on full throttle!
Just put a Milltek exhaust on it, which sounds better at full chat, and does help a bit, but again the strange mapping seems to cause it to pop and bang, not just on overrun, which I'm not that keen on, not sure yet if I'll keep it. I'm planning to go to the Thorney/Team Dynamics 16/17" wheels in spring, and maybe Toyo R888s or A048s. Do you have any issues with overheating on track days? I knwo that heat limits any power increase but have also read (on Hoffman's site), that there are issues with standard car when driven on track?
Not sure if you've seen what Hoffman's are doing to one: http://www.hofmanns.co.uk/content/index.asp?id=63
If you hear any new ways of improving map, including binning the ECU, let me know, don't mind being a guinea pig!
Pity about the map, but you do adjust. It's not bad when you're up and down gears on back roads, but I noticed it more this week which involved a fair bit of single lane roads and overtaking - you put the foot done to go past and keep it down, and it's probably the first car I've had where the speed increase doesn't feel constant on full throttle!
Just put a Milltek exhaust on it, which sounds better at full chat, and does help a bit, but again the strange mapping seems to cause it to pop and bang, not just on overrun, which I'm not that keen on, not sure yet if I'll keep it. I'm planning to go to the Thorney/Team Dynamics 16/17" wheels in spring, and maybe Toyo R888s or A048s. Do you have any issues with overheating on track days? I knwo that heat limits any power increase but have also read (on Hoffman's site), that there are issues with standard car when driven on track?
Not sure if you've seen what Hoffman's are doing to one: http://www.hofmanns.co.uk/content/index.asp?id=63
If you hear any new ways of improving map, including binning the ECU, let me know, don't mind being a guinea pig!
thanks for sending the link to the Hoffmans car. I wanted to see what they are doing.
I am runnning the Team Dynamics rims from TMS with the Toyo T1R and think they are a good step forwards. In addition the car looks better with the slightly lower front ride height, for my eyes anyway.
I have tracked the car at Donnington, Hockenheim, Silverstone and Nurburgring and no problems of overheating. Brake wear is higher than on the Elise as you would expect with more weight and power. Also at Donnington the pedal would go hard under braking for the last corner. This happens when you are on the point of locking a tyre and the ABS cuts in. Instead of the pedal pumping you just get a hard pedal. You can cure it by turnning off the ABS, easy to do, see the vx220.org forum for details. I have not done it yet as I want the ABS for road use but will probably put a switch in this circuit before I track the car again. I have also fitted the Mintex pads. I did not feel a big difference but some people swear by them.
Interesting to see what you say about the exhaust. I am not convinced I want it popping and banging on the overrun all the time as it will just encourage me to drive faster....something I definitely dont need in this car.
Also in case you have not done it yet the TMS suspension setup gives you a lot more front end which is nice in the dry.
enjoy
C43
I am runnning the Team Dynamics rims from TMS with the Toyo T1R and think they are a good step forwards. In addition the car looks better with the slightly lower front ride height, for my eyes anyway.
I have tracked the car at Donnington, Hockenheim, Silverstone and Nurburgring and no problems of overheating. Brake wear is higher than on the Elise as you would expect with more weight and power. Also at Donnington the pedal would go hard under braking for the last corner. This happens when you are on the point of locking a tyre and the ABS cuts in. Instead of the pedal pumping you just get a hard pedal. You can cure it by turnning off the ABS, easy to do, see the vx220.org forum for details. I have not done it yet as I want the ABS for road use but will probably put a switch in this circuit before I track the car again. I have also fitted the Mintex pads. I did not feel a big difference but some people swear by them.
Interesting to see what you say about the exhaust. I am not convinced I want it popping and banging on the overrun all the time as it will just encourage me to drive faster....something I definitely dont need in this car.
Also in case you have not done it yet the TMS suspension setup gives you a lot more front end which is nice in the dry.
enjoy
C43
Thanks. I'm thinking about going the whole hog on the TMS 4-pot brakes, but doesn't sound like you have too much of a problem. Going to try tracking it first before deciding.
I've already got Nitrons on it, which make a big difference and adjustments are certainly noticeable. Aagree lowering does improve looks as a bonus.
When I got the Nitrons, I got the Thorney set-up done by a third party (TMS is a long way from home...), but there's quite a lot of toe-out on car, which they tell me came from TMS and in contrast to you, I'm not sure the front end is as sharp as before - going to call TMS next week to talk through. I guess their set up will go with their wheels, tyres, not the standard ones which I have, so maybe have to play with it a bit.
Cheers.
I've already got Nitrons on it, which make a big difference and adjustments are certainly noticeable. Aagree lowering does improve looks as a bonus.
When I got the Nitrons, I got the Thorney set-up done by a third party (TMS is a long way from home...), but there's quite a lot of toe-out on car, which they tell me came from TMS and in contrast to you, I'm not sure the front end is as sharp as before - going to call TMS next week to talk through. I guess their set up will go with their wheels, tyres, not the standard ones which I have, so maybe have to play with it a bit.
Cheers.
Having just done a day at Bedford with mine, with the ABS disconnected for the first time, I believe the standard brakes are up to the job. The feeling of confidence returns when you don't get that hard ABS pedal ( C43 - which was the issue I had when I met you at Donington last year. At the time I thought it was a stuck caliper, the ABS hard pedal feeling that severe!)
Mine is 225hp with Milltek, and whilst the power curve is smoother it is still not as linear as a normally aspirated engine would be. However, I'm used to it now!
Mine is 225hp with Milltek, and whilst the power curve is smoother it is still not as linear as a normally aspirated engine would be. However, I'm used to it now!
footsoldier I got the TMS setup done when I was running standard rims and tyres and even then I could feel the better front end. In addition you get better feeling through the steering. I can't remember what setup TMS has put on toe but I do remember it was not massive. Ring John as I am sure he will help you out, especially if you are going to get rims and tyres from him.
Redlake, good to hear you have tried turning off the abs and it cures the problem on track with the solid pedal. I have a feeling that the bigger front calipers would do the same by moving the effective brake balance forwards, but in these times the cheaper option will have to be looked into. With the ABS off which end tended to lock first, front or rear? Apparently the problem is worse with the 16" front rims which makes me think it is a rear locking problem as the 16" give more front footprint and hence more front grip under braking.
cheers
C43
ps perhaps we should try and see if there is a track day we could do with all three cars at the same time. 3 Europas in the same place at the same time could be some sort of record!! It would also be very interesting as we are all running cars in different states of tune.
Redlake, good to hear you have tried turning off the abs and it cures the problem on track with the solid pedal. I have a feeling that the bigger front calipers would do the same by moving the effective brake balance forwards, but in these times the cheaper option will have to be looked into. With the ABS off which end tended to lock first, front or rear? Apparently the problem is worse with the 16" front rims which makes me think it is a rear locking problem as the 16" give more front footprint and hence more front grip under braking.
cheers
C43
ps perhaps we should try and see if there is a track day we could do with all three cars at the same time. 3 Europas in the same place at the same time could be some sort of record!! It would also be very interesting as we are all running cars in different states of tune.
Eh? I thought Lotus had equipped the Europa with 'proper' 4 channel ABS?
I had a VXT for a while and loved it but the 2-channel ABS was simply dangerous - the 'hard pedal' effect you're mentioning sounds absolutely identical to the inadequacies of the VX220 ABS setup. The solutions were either to turn it off (dodgy on road due to insurance implications) or to upgrade the ABS computer to the 4-channel one from the Exige.
I've now got an Exige S and the ABS works perfectly, as per any other car with ABS - but it's very late to kick in which is exactly what you want with a high performance car.
I'm really surprised that the Europa is exhibiting the same faults as the VXT regarding ABS. If Lotus really did sell the Europa with the old and inadequate 2-channel ABS then I'm genuinely shocked, it's easily upgradable though to the Exige unit. If however the Europa *does* have the correct Exige ABS and it's still doing the hard-pedal game, then I'm puzzled. I'm sure that all the VX220 guys who swapped their ABS computers for newer Lotus 4-channel units got correct performance without the 'hard pedal' crap...
I had a VXT for a while and loved it but the 2-channel ABS was simply dangerous - the 'hard pedal' effect you're mentioning sounds absolutely identical to the inadequacies of the VX220 ABS setup. The solutions were either to turn it off (dodgy on road due to insurance implications) or to upgrade the ABS computer to the 4-channel one from the Exige.
I've now got an Exige S and the ABS works perfectly, as per any other car with ABS - but it's very late to kick in which is exactly what you want with a high performance car.
I'm really surprised that the Europa is exhibiting the same faults as the VXT regarding ABS. If Lotus really did sell the Europa with the old and inadequate 2-channel ABS then I'm genuinely shocked, it's easily upgradable though to the Exige unit. If however the Europa *does* have the correct Exige ABS and it's still doing the hard-pedal game, then I'm puzzled. I'm sure that all the VX220 guys who swapped their ABS computers for newer Lotus 4-channel units got correct performance without the 'hard pedal' crap...
C43 said:
With the ABS off which end tended to lock first, front or rear? Apparently the problem is worse with the 16" front rims which makes me think it is a rear locking problem as the 16" give more front footprint and hence more front grip under braking.
Although I use 17"s on the road (with SE spec 195/45 Goodyears on the front) I use 16s on the front for my trackday tyres. There was no problem with either end locking up in 'normal trackday' use, although I tend to turn in slightly on the brake with an unladen locked up front tyre. As you can imagine, that really confused the ABS, so I'm glad it's gone!Yesterday also convinced me that the Europa is a superb track day tool. It has 95% of the agilty of my old Elise 135 and considerably more pace overall.
Yes, let's aim for a Europa tack day.....I fancy the epic Cadwell Park, as I haven't been there since I raced there about 10 years ago. March 6th MSV day there? Or how about Silverstone GP circuit with Goldtrack on April 29th?
Edited by Redlake27 on Sunday 18th January 17:55
What size tyres are people running, assuming standard wheels? I have read something about different tyre sizes on stock rims. I'm 11,000 miles into my Europa now and I think they could do with freshening. Aside from that the car is standard except for the 225 and brakes (and interior not that it matters). I am thinking of the miltek but I'm not sure I can really justify it...
I'd be up for a Europa track session too!
I'd be up for a Europa track session too!
I must admit I though the Europa was on the 4 channel setup but I will check the threads on the vx220 site to see if I can work it out.
Cadwell park or Oulton park would be good but cant make Jan / Feb or March as am out of the country most of the time these 3 months. After that I will be well up for a track day anywhere mid to top of England. I live very close to Silverstone and know the place very well so would prefer to go elsewhere.
BTW I am in Portimao Circuit at the moment. Its a new circuit in the Algarve and people here are describing it as Oulton park with run off area. I don't know Oulton. I would say it is like the Ring except it is short enough to learn it. Great circuit if anyone is down this part of the world.
cheers
C43
Cadwell park or Oulton park would be good but cant make Jan / Feb or March as am out of the country most of the time these 3 months. After that I will be well up for a track day anywhere mid to top of England. I live very close to Silverstone and know the place very well so would prefer to go elsewhere.
BTW I am in Portimao Circuit at the moment. Its a new circuit in the Algarve and people here are describing it as Oulton park with run off area. I don't know Oulton. I would say it is like the Ring except it is short enough to learn it. Great circuit if anyone is down this part of the world.
cheers
C43
4 Europas on track at the same time....cooool
here is a good link for the hard pedal mode. I don't think it is a 2 channel problem as it looks like the Europa is 4 channel.
http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f91/ice-mode-anyon...
It is either ice mode or a problem with Vacuum that happens on lots of differnet Lotii. There is a long blurb from Lotus saying its ice mode in the above link. The thing that does not make sense is that when I have had this problem I have tried pushing the pedal much harder and I still did not get a front lock. One of the american race guys suggests it is a vacuum problem but I have not though enough about it to work out if its correct or not.
Definitely work in progress. The quick fix seems to be adjust driving style a little or turn ABS off for dry track running.
cheers
C43
here is a good link for the hard pedal mode. I don't think it is a 2 channel problem as it looks like the Europa is 4 channel.
http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f91/ice-mode-anyon...
It is either ice mode or a problem with Vacuum that happens on lots of differnet Lotii. There is a long blurb from Lotus saying its ice mode in the above link. The thing that does not make sense is that when I have had this problem I have tried pushing the pedal much harder and I still did not get a front lock. One of the american race guys suggests it is a vacuum problem but I have not though enough about it to work out if its correct or not.
Definitely work in progress. The quick fix seems to be adjust driving style a little or turn ABS off for dry track running.
cheers
C43
Might be of interest but there will be a Europa running in the Elise Trophy this year.. will also mean that another garage will have a lot of knowledge in prepping them for track:-
http://www.lotus-central.com/index.php/en/news/93-...
and a longer Europa race follow up story..
http://www.lotus-central.com/index.php/en/features...
should be out for the first time racing at Donington in April to tie in with the Lotus show.
http://www.lotus-central.com/index.php/en/news/93-...
and a longer Europa race follow up story..
http://www.lotus-central.com/index.php/en/features...
should be out for the first time racing at Donington in April to tie in with the Lotus show.
Chris - thanks for that, I'm the guy who emailed you about brakes etc before New Year...looking forward to seeing what develops.
It would suit me not to go to Silverstone GP as well, would prefer something where the corners are closer together... Was last at Cadwell about 19 years ago in a Formula First, a great track so up for that, Oulton or Donington. Donington probably "safest" if anyone's bothered about that.
I've also been in touch with Lisa on here (loopylea), who tracks hers and another Europa owner in Edinburgh, so we could maybe get a 6 pack of Europas, (must be a high percentage of all on road!), maybe with a special appearance by Randy..?. April fine for me...will have track tyres on by then.
Cheers, Mark
It would suit me not to go to Silverstone GP as well, would prefer something where the corners are closer together... Was last at Cadwell about 19 years ago in a Formula First, a great track so up for that, Oulton or Donington. Donington probably "safest" if anyone's bothered about that.
I've also been in touch with Lisa on here (loopylea), who tracks hers and another Europa owner in Edinburgh, so we could maybe get a 6 pack of Europas, (must be a high percentage of all on road!), maybe with a special appearance by Randy..?. April fine for me...will have track tyres on by then.
Cheers, Mark
I can't find any days for Donnington, Oulton or Cadwell yet. I guess it is too early to book for April.
I have done Donnington and it is lots of fun with big run off areas. Through the old hairpin a Europa is magic and as quick as anything I came across. Also the back straigh is long enough to get past those bl**dy 7s. If we do go there I would suggest disconnecting your ABS or taking a pair of side cutters if its dry. If its wet the circuit is very slippery due to the airplane fuel from East Midlands. Certainly not a place to run cut slicks in the wet.
cheers
C43.
I have done Donnington and it is lots of fun with big run off areas. Through the old hairpin a Europa is magic and as quick as anything I came across. Also the back straigh is long enough to get past those bl**dy 7s. If we do go there I would suggest disconnecting your ABS or taking a pair of side cutters if its dry. If its wet the circuit is very slippery due to the airplane fuel from East Midlands. Certainly not a place to run cut slicks in the wet.
cheers
C43.
hi all
just reading all the stuff on the europa
i have had mine a month now and luv it
i have come from exige s NA
have got a custom exhaust and lotus are fitting the new ecu as we speak
i want to setup the suspension without going to the nitron kit
any helpers please to set the car up for some track day work
i will be putting on the TD wheels soon from thorneys and toyo 888
just reading all the stuff on the europa
i have had mine a month now and luv it
i have come from exige s NA
have got a custom exhaust and lotus are fitting the new ecu as we speak
i want to setup the suspension without going to the nitron kit
any helpers please to set the car up for some track day work
i will be putting on the TD wheels soon from thorneys and toyo 888
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