Discussion
Unfortunately the wife's mother died over Christmas, and her estate has been left to the wife and her brother. Nothing complicated to resolve a house with hardly any mortgage (my parents were the same they never paid their last few pounds so the building society holds the deeds) and two bank accounts (one savings one current) and one insurance policy for death cover ( enough for the funeral)
They have been to the solicitors the holder of the will (both the wife and her brother are joint executors) the solicitor told them probate was required due to property being involved.(no inheritance tax involved either) No problem so far, today an estimate came through the post for between £2-£5K.
Anyhow after a bit of online searching and reading up on the subject you can apply for probate yourself and its £90 and a 10 minute hearing at the court, plus £1 for each sealed copy of of grant of representatio) It seems so simple. Am I missing something here ? surely something so simple couldn't cost that amount at the solicitors ?
They have been to the solicitors the holder of the will (both the wife and her brother are joint executors) the solicitor told them probate was required due to property being involved.(no inheritance tax involved either) No problem so far, today an estimate came through the post for between £2-£5K.
Anyhow after a bit of online searching and reading up on the subject you can apply for probate yourself and its £90 and a 10 minute hearing at the court, plus £1 for each sealed copy of of grant of representatio) It seems so simple. Am I missing something here ? surely something so simple couldn't cost that amount at the solicitors ?
A friend at work has just done the DIY probate on her elderly aunts house. No solicitors fees, cost less than £100 and all has gone smoothly - very straightforward apparently. It was a simple will, very clear who got what and not huge amounts involved - one small bungalow and tiny amount in savings.
My sister and I are sorting out the probate on our father's will, we are the executors and the will is simple enough, no mortgage outstanding just funeral bills and ongoing power and phone to the house...
and we're doing it ourselves, mostly because we can just hear his roar of outrage at the whole idea of giving some bloody solicitor thousands of pounds just for that...
Maybe, if the executors of the will in question have a little time and can speak to their local Citizens Advice Bureau, I'd say it would be something you can do for themselves, £5k is a lot of 'memory funds' for a great big knees up party, if nothing else!
and we're doing it ourselves, mostly because we can just hear his roar of outrage at the whole idea of giving some bloody solicitor thousands of pounds just for that...
Maybe, if the executors of the will in question have a little time and can speak to their local Citizens Advice Bureau, I'd say it would be something you can do for themselves, £5k is a lot of 'memory funds' for a great big knees up party, if nothing else!
Call your local probate office, they are more than helpful if there is anything you dont understand. I did probate when my father died 19 years ago. he left no will and i had to sort out his estate and help my mother to keep was rightfully hers.
it is pretty easy.
think the probate office have advice on their website also.
you basically fill in a form, copy in the will and pay the fee. then you have to go to the office and swear an avidavite on the probate form and providing they receive no objections all done. if my memory serves me correctly.
it is pretty easy.
think the probate office have advice on their website also.
you basically fill in a form, copy in the will and pay the fee. then you have to go to the office and swear an avidavite on the probate form and providing they receive no objections all done. if my memory serves me correctly.
zippy500 said:
Solicitors are bloodsuckers. Have a go yourself. If it is acceptable for Joe public to do it, it cant be that hard can it.
Nothing like a good generalisaton, is there? 
I'm not a probate practitioner but, assuming that the estate is straightforward, it does sound like quite a lot. I'd ask them for a breakdown of the work they envisage being required and the estimate of time to resolve it.
It's correct that anyone can apply for a Grant of Probate. Actually paying out the debts is pretty straightforward once you have it, as it gathering in the estate assets. The only potentially tricky bit (from dim and distant memory of my probate lectures at law school) is the potential need to file estate accounts for tax purposes - they can be fiddly and awkward to put together.
They MAY not be required if it the estate falls within the 0% allowance - it's worth asking the solicitor that. If not, I'd guess it should be pretty straightforward, other than transferring any property into the beneficiaries names, which you'll probably find it easier to get a solicitor to do for you - but than can be done at modest cost.
When my Dad died my Mum was told she wouldn't need probate.
She didn't tell us, but apparently she was later told that it was needed so she should get some money out of ISAs that were in his name. So she went to the probate office on her own, they helped her fill out the forms and it was all done.
She didn't tell us, but apparently she was later told that it was needed so she should get some money out of ISAs that were in his name. So she went to the probate office on her own, they helped her fill out the forms and it was all done.
Is a law firm named as a co-executor? In which case, you're screwed.
Solicitors will do everything by the book - ads for beneficiaries in obscure legal publications, etc - you name it. That's what costs the money. Plus it will take an age.
Solicitors will do everything by the book - ads for beneficiaries in obscure legal publications, etc - you name it. That's what costs the money. Plus it will take an age.
Edited by Mobile Chicane on Friday 16th January 21:11
My hunch is that solictors, being human, are more excited by interesting/expensive cases. I think they find probate, like conveyancing, very dull, and will freqently let things languish/fail to chase up, while they deal with more interesting things.
When I needed conveyancing I used a Conveyancer. Perhaps there are people who specialise in Probate?
I would add that in complex cases or those where large amounts are involved, then the 'full monty' of a solicitor may be required. However it is also my experience that by the time you realise you hired a turkey, it's too late.
And another thing. I am in envy of the way solicitors won't quote for the job up front, but just let the meter run like a petrol pump. When my clients ask me for a price I wish I could say 'Don't know, I'll bill you when it's over'. And of course when it arrives, and it's 3x what you thought it would be, you're screwed because you can hardly 'go legal' with a solicitor.
I had an interesting one last year. The solicitor sumbitted a bill for about £800, but said they'd accept £400 if it was paid by x date. An interesting idea not unlike parking fines!
When I needed conveyancing I used a Conveyancer. Perhaps there are people who specialise in Probate?
I would add that in complex cases or those where large amounts are involved, then the 'full monty' of a solicitor may be required. However it is also my experience that by the time you realise you hired a turkey, it's too late.
And another thing. I am in envy of the way solicitors won't quote for the job up front, but just let the meter run like a petrol pump. When my clients ask me for a price I wish I could say 'Don't know, I'll bill you when it's over'. And of course when it arrives, and it's 3x what you thought it would be, you're screwed because you can hardly 'go legal' with a solicitor.
I had an interesting one last year. The solicitor sumbitted a bill for about £800, but said they'd accept £400 if it was paid by x date. An interesting idea not unlike parking fines!
Edited by Simpo Two on Friday 16th January 21:24
jessica said:
Call your local probate office, they are more than helpful if there is anything you dont understand. I did probate when my father died 19 years ago. he left no will and i had to sort out his estate and help my mother to keep was rightfully hers.
it is pretty easy.
think the probate office have advice on their website also.
you basically fill in a form, copy in the will and pay the fee. then you have to go to the office and swear an avidavite on the probate form and providing they receive no objections all done. if my memory serves me correctly.
it is pretty easy.
think the probate office have advice on their website also.
you basically fill in a form, copy in the will and pay the fee. then you have to go to the office and swear an avidavite on the probate form and providing they receive no objections all done. if my memory serves me correctly.
I stumbled through probate when my dad died a couple of years back.
Much easier than I thought it would be, just required a fair amount of form filling, some seriously pissing in the wind valuations on stuff and sitting in a room doing the swearing business with my mum.
Simpo Two said:
And another thing. I am in envy of the way solicitors won't quote for the job up front, but just let the meter run like a petrol pump. When my clients ask me for a price I wish I could say 'Don't know, I'll bill you when it's over'. And of course when it arrives, and it's 3x what you thought it would be, you're screwed because you can hardly 'go legal' with a solicitor.
It's not quite as simple as that.Solicitors' professional conduct rules require clients to be given clear advice on costs at the outset and then kept regularly updated. If the solicitor fails to do so, it can be can all sorts of trouble if the client complains and the Solicitors Regulatory Authority comes knocking....
To be fair, it's sometimes hard to give meaningful costs estimates if it's not clear at the outset what work will be required - but that's no to say that the solicitor shouldn't at least try, and then regularly revisit that estimate and update it as things move forward.
How many do that in practice is, of course, another question....
Lurking Lawyer said:
It's not quite as simple as that.
Solicitors' professional conduct rules require clients to be given clear advice on costs at the outset and then kept regularly updated. If the solicitor fails to do so, it can be can all sorts of trouble if the client complains and the Solicitors Regulatory Authority comes knocking....
To be fair, it's sometimes hard to give meaningful costs estimates if it's not clear at the outset what work will be required - but that's no to say that the solicitor shouldn't at least try, and then regularly revisit that estimate and update it as things move forward.
How many do that in practice is, of course, another question....
Good points well made.Solicitors' professional conduct rules require clients to be given clear advice on costs at the outset and then kept regularly updated. If the solicitor fails to do so, it can be can all sorts of trouble if the client complains and the Solicitors Regulatory Authority comes knocking....
To be fair, it's sometimes hard to give meaningful costs estimates if it's not clear at the outset what work will be required - but that's no to say that the solicitor shouldn't at least try, and then regularly revisit that estimate and update it as things move forward.
How many do that in practice is, of course, another question....
the estimate is way too high.. when my mother was killed we had a lot to sort out.. ran with a deed of variation in the end (there was also a lot of paperwork due to the nature of her death as well) A staright forward death requires... money in and debts paid...tax paid (if applicable) full etc
A lot of the work you could do yourself.. Send letters to each institution to inform of death..
It can be straightforward and can be inexpensive.
It is geting a balance between aggro and cost at a time that can be traumatic.. We used solicitors mbut there was so much other stuff happening at the same time it was wellm worth it.
If it straighforward estate with no IHT then if you are reasonably efficient at form filling then do it yourself.
A lot of the work you could do yourself.. Send letters to each institution to inform of death..
It can be straightforward and can be inexpensive.
It is geting a balance between aggro and cost at a time that can be traumatic.. We used solicitors mbut there was so much other stuff happening at the same time it was wellm worth it.
If it straighforward estate with no IHT then if you are reasonably efficient at form filling then do it yourself.
Edited by doddze on Friday 16th January 22:59
Edited by doddze on Friday 16th January 23:02
I had an estimate of 2-5K to deal with an estate and I was pretty stunned. I went the DIY route and it is straightforward, the guidance from the probate office and HRMC is clear and easy to follow. I know of a couple of others who've also done it DIY without problems.
There will be a tax return to do unless the estate is very small, <3K IIRC, before you can get a grant of probate. There was no estate duty to pay on the one I dealt with but if there is money to pay HRMC will want their cut first.
I think the worst job was the valuation of the belongings, its all a little bit sad picking over the remnants of someones life. I just made up an inventory of everything and worked through it using newspaper small ads and ebay to find prices. Be realistic when you do it, there will be lots of things which have no monetary value at all.
I'd be inclined to use a solicitor for conveyancing if you sell the property or transfer the title.
There will be a tax return to do unless the estate is very small, <3K IIRC, before you can get a grant of probate. There was no estate duty to pay on the one I dealt with but if there is money to pay HRMC will want their cut first.
I think the worst job was the valuation of the belongings, its all a little bit sad picking over the remnants of someones life. I just made up an inventory of everything and worked through it using newspaper small ads and ebay to find prices. Be realistic when you do it, there will be lots of things which have no monetary value at all.
I'd be inclined to use a solicitor for conveyancing if you sell the property or transfer the title.
I went for probate on my Father's estate on my Mother's behalf (rather sudden death and she didn't feel up to the task although she was legally the executor of the will).
As I recall it was straightforward; I had to fill in some form and later had just a simple interview with a magistrate. After all that was granted the permission to deal with the estate.
$5k is astonishing, but as most of probate relates to time, i suspect that is where the cost has come from. If ou can deal with the tedium of it, i would do it yourself.
As I recall it was straightforward; I had to fill in some form and later had just a simple interview with a magistrate. After all that was granted the permission to deal with the estate.
$5k is astonishing, but as most of probate relates to time, i suspect that is where the cost has come from. If ou can deal with the tedium of it, i would do it yourself.
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