Is the Elise/Exige a forgiving car to drive?
Discussion
All my friends, my family and wife insist im a bad driver and although ive never had any accidents nor any near misses i know im not the best driver out there. Most people comment that i drive too close to other cars and i have a lack of spacial awarness when driving. Im thinking of either a nice Elise or Exige as a weekend car and people are insisting its a bad idea for me, i ruled out a 996 after thinking it could be out of my ability. But is the lotus the same? if im ruling out the 996 then should i the lotus?
Everyone raves about how much grip the car has so it sounds like it could be good for my weekend jaunts into the hills.
Thoughts and opinions welcomed.
If it matters the other quick cars ive had are an Escort RS Turbo, Civic Type R, Evo 9 (440bp), Excort Cosworth. All FWD or 4WD and very different to a lotus.
Everyone raves about how much grip the car has so it sounds like it could be good for my weekend jaunts into the hills.
Thoughts and opinions welcomed.
If it matters the other quick cars ive had are an Escort RS Turbo, Civic Type R, Evo 9 (440bp), Excort Cosworth. All FWD or 4WD and very different to a lotus.
You might find the Elise is the car which will improve your driving. I learnt a new respect for speed, stopping distances, the weather, other peoples crap driving. Specs vary slightly but mine has no airbags, no ABS, something you mostly take for granted these days. Also because the car is so low and so loud, I found the first few months I'd be happily tootling along the motorway doing 50 and not realising, being overtaken by shopping karts 
Depends which model. If you get one of the K-series engined cars with no ABS, driving too close to the car in front is not going to be a particularly good idea.
Otherwise, the only area where you could call them 'unforgiving' is if you tend to misjudge your corner speeds badly - if you find yourself in the middle of a corner going much faster than you'd like and you lift off the accelerator suddenly - the Elise will get very out of shape and most likely spin, unless you react correctly.
Having said all which, if you have identified areas where your driving is sub-standard (and fair play for admitting you're not perfect - that's a good first step that many of us aren't big enough to take), your best bet is to do some advanced driver training to correct your faults, before you kill yourself or an innocent bystander.
Otherwise, the only area where you could call them 'unforgiving' is if you tend to misjudge your corner speeds badly - if you find yourself in the middle of a corner going much faster than you'd like and you lift off the accelerator suddenly - the Elise will get very out of shape and most likely spin, unless you react correctly.
Having said all which, if you have identified areas where your driving is sub-standard (and fair play for admitting you're not perfect - that's a good first step that many of us aren't big enough to take), your best bet is to do some advanced driver training to correct your faults, before you kill yourself or an innocent bystander.
I constantly lecture my brother about lift off over steer - telling him if hes going too fast to keep on the power is far safer than lifting off!!
What put me off the 996 is that 60% of its weight is over the rear wheels so its probably going to be too tail happy, ive been on a drift day and can hold a porsche in a slide but dont know how id get on if it happened out of a controlled environment.
I really dont want a K series model, only because ive spent many hours sorting out knackered head gaskets, it might be ok in the Lotus but its a big turn off for me.
What put me off the 996 is that 60% of its weight is over the rear wheels so its probably going to be too tail happy, ive been on a drift day and can hold a porsche in a slide but dont know how id get on if it happened out of a controlled environment.
I really dont want a K series model, only because ive spent many hours sorting out knackered head gaskets, it might be ok in the Lotus but its a big turn off for me.
In short, no. Typically no-ABS or traction control and for those with ABS, it's useless in the wet unless you are on road tyres. Certainly no stability control, ie. BMW ASC/CBC/DSC or Porsche PASM. All Loti are raw driving cars where you are in control and have to be aware and actually drive the car as opposed to steer in the right direction.
I managed a full 180 this morning on an icy country lane at < 10mph, missed both hedges
I managed a full 180 this morning on an icy country lane at < 10mph, missed both hedges
If you drive an Elise i doubt you'd be following too close to the car in front as you wouldn't be able to see past the thing! I too think that driving one makes you a better driver, mainly because you can feel so much of whats going on it makes you drive more smoothly. Just avoid accelerating hard off roundabouts where there's a camber change and you'll be fine.
You could try a scare yourself sensible day. £100 I think and is a good day out even if you don't buy one so no money wasted there!
http://www.grouplotus.com/cars/scare_yourself_sens...
You could try a scare yourself sensible day. £100 I think and is a good day out even if you don't buy one so no money wasted there!
http://www.grouplotus.com/cars/scare_yourself_sens...
The lotus will bite, and it will be very hard if you don't respect it. Drive it like a loon and you will lose it. When driven correctly they are awesome cars. If you're not used to RWD cars then maybe go to a walshy day when you have your lotus and learn how to drive the type of car...it's something I'm defo going to do this year
does anyone buy this car cos it looks so god dam good?
well especially the exige!
Tbh and i know i might get slated but i have no intention of going on a track driving or driving fast on the roads.
should i have the oppurtunity i would rather use someone else's car
but all of the exige models look dam nice and would rather show it off!
wrong type of car to buy?
well especially the exige!
Tbh and i know i might get slated but i have no intention of going on a track driving or driving fast on the roads.
should i have the oppurtunity i would rather use someone else's car
but all of the exige models look dam nice and would rather show it off!
wrong type of car to buy?
If the 996's weight distribution puts you off then the Elise's will too: 62% rear/38% front. Factor in its light weight and it demands respect to drive quickly (particularly in wet/slippy conditions). Its not a car for ham-fisted or agressive drivers (sounds like you may be a bit agressive on the road?) needing a light touch, a sense of the car's balance and awareness of what the car is telling you.
Its also worth bearing in mind that a lot of people don't see the Elise on the road (its both small and very low) so you need to drive defensively in traffic.
Given that you accept your shortfalls as a driver then why not invest in a day with someone like Don Palmer learning how to drive both quickly and safely on the road and some time with Walshy at Carlimits learning how to control a skittish mid-engined car when it lets go (especially controlling and dealing with lift-off oversteer): there's no shame in going back to school
Its also worth bearing in mind that a lot of people don't see the Elise on the road (its both small and very low) so you need to drive defensively in traffic.
Given that you accept your shortfalls as a driver then why not invest in a day with someone like Don Palmer learning how to drive both quickly and safely on the road and some time with Walshy at Carlimits learning how to control a skittish mid-engined car when it lets go (especially controlling and dealing with lift-off oversteer): there's no shame in going back to school
vxc said:
does anyone buy this car cos it looks so god dam good?
well especially the exige!
Tbh and i know i might get slated but i have no intention of going on a track driving or driving fast on the roads.
should i have the oppurtunity i would rather use someone else's car
but all of the exige models look dam nice and would rather show it off!
wrong type of car to buy?
People certainly do buy the Elise/Exige for the badge and/or pose value, but they don't tend to keep them long. You have to really like the image in order to put up with the car's idiosyncrasies on that basis alone. well especially the exige!
Tbh and i know i might get slated but i have no intention of going on a track driving or driving fast on the roads.
should i have the oppurtunity i would rather use someone else's car
but all of the exige models look dam nice and would rather show it off!
wrong type of car to buy?
In answer to the OP's question. The Elise is the easiest car to drive fast that I've ever owned, but I think that's mostly just because it rewards my (smooth, forethoughtful) style of driving. It's pretty hard to get out of shape in an Elise (except for the lift-off oversteer that's already been mentioned) but once it goes, it's not the easiest of cars to get back.
If you're the kind of drive who likes to throw cars into corners with abandon, you'll kill yourself; if you're the kind of driver who likes to enter corners at a speed carefully calculated to bring you out the other side as fast as possible, you'll love the Elise.
Edited by kambites on Thursday 22 January 08:44
I have to admit to having had similar concerns as the original poster, when I bought my Elise. I admit to not being a good driver, I'm not saying bad either, just average, anyone that thinks they are without faults when driving is kidding themselves.
I bought the Elise because I had always wanted one, the opportunity presented itself at the right time, so I took the plunge. In reality, not really knowing what I was getting myself into.
After 4yrs of owning it, my driving has improved, but by no means to the extent that I am getting much more than 50% of its capabilites out of it. However thats still twice as good as any other car I've owned.
My advice is, buy the car, but get to a driving course very quickly there after. Learn where the limits are for your skill level and then progress very slowly from there. The car is stupidly quick in the dry and stupidly dangerous in the wet, if you try to drive the same way as in the dry.
If you are willing to learn, then I would suggest that the Elise is possibly the best to learn in. If you just want to get in and push hard from day 1, get a FWD hot hatch
I bought the Elise because I had always wanted one, the opportunity presented itself at the right time, so I took the plunge. In reality, not really knowing what I was getting myself into.
After 4yrs of owning it, my driving has improved, but by no means to the extent that I am getting much more than 50% of its capabilites out of it. However thats still twice as good as any other car I've owned.
My advice is, buy the car, but get to a driving course very quickly there after. Learn where the limits are for your skill level and then progress very slowly from there. The car is stupidly quick in the dry and stupidly dangerous in the wet, if you try to drive the same way as in the dry.
If you are willing to learn, then I would suggest that the Elise is possibly the best to learn in. If you just want to get in and push hard from day 1, get a FWD hot hatch
if you love driving but recognise you are not *that* good at it, get loads of training - its a skill that you will use through life, its not wasted money
what you will lose in depreciation in a month on a new car, will buy you many,many days worth of training and experience...which may save your life one day
so dont worry about the car you drive - get whatever you fancy ...but do everyone a favour, including yourself - improve your skills
for on the road training and general safety, there are a number of IAM style courses you can do - an hour or two each week
for *really* learning how to handle a car, start of with the excellent VFM "walshy days" as you will see them being referred to - a day on the airfield with Andrew Walsh of www.carlimits.com (and others like him)
half the fun of an Elise is learning to get the best from it ...which will take most owners many, many years of training and practice
what you will lose in depreciation in a month on a new car, will buy you many,many days worth of training and experience...which may save your life one day
so dont worry about the car you drive - get whatever you fancy ...but do everyone a favour, including yourself - improve your skills
for on the road training and general safety, there are a number of IAM style courses you can do - an hour or two each week
for *really* learning how to handle a car, start of with the excellent VFM "walshy days" as you will see them being referred to - a day on the airfield with Andrew Walsh of www.carlimits.com (and others like him)
half the fun of an Elise is learning to get the best from it ...which will take most owners many, many years of training and practice
Thanks for the replies, i seem to be split down the middle. Im getting two responses really.
One from what appears to be the driving Gods saying "Its for us, the driving elite, if your not the stig then you will die".
And the others who admit to not being the best drivers around "Treat it with the respect it deserves and it will be loads of fun"
Im not an agressive driver I dont think, im looking for a proper drivers car thats going to improve my driving and be a hoot to drive. I can handle a slide, ive done it. But only in a controlled environment but my worry is that I dont know what ill do under the pressure of a panic/unexpected slide.
Think ill reconsider the porsche now and ill certainly do a few training days this year, did some last year (not in an Elise though) and had loads of fun doing them.
One from what appears to be the driving Gods saying "Its for us, the driving elite, if your not the stig then you will die".
And the others who admit to not being the best drivers around "Treat it with the respect it deserves and it will be loads of fun"
Im not an agressive driver I dont think, im looking for a proper drivers car thats going to improve my driving and be a hoot to drive. I can handle a slide, ive done it. But only in a controlled environment but my worry is that I dont know what ill do under the pressure of a panic/unexpected slide.
Think ill reconsider the porsche now and ill certainly do a few training days this year, did some last year (not in an Elise though) and had loads of fun doing them.
Don't let peoples comments put you off. The elise is very progressive in terms of when it's letting go. You get so much information through the body and steering wheel you know when you're on the edge. If you do go very fast into a corner though and you do lose it sharply at speed, this is when you're in a world of s
t.
I don't procclaim to be a "driving god"....quite far from it. I've had a few incidents in the elise where the back end has started to step out on slippy roads but just ease off the throttle, bit of opposite steering and it's very easy to get back in line.
Go out and drive them, get a feel for them. You will NOT be disappointed
t. I don't procclaim to be a "driving god"....quite far from it. I've had a few incidents in the elise where the back end has started to step out on slippy roads but just ease off the throttle, bit of opposite steering and it's very easy to get back in line.
Go out and drive them, get a feel for them. You will NOT be disappointed
LeeThePeople said:
One from what appears to be the driving Gods saying "Its for us, the driving elite, if your not the stig then you will die".
Actually, it's probably the other way round... it'll be the driving Gods who will be telling you it's a pussycat, and the people who've somehow managed to spin one into a hedge at a fast walking pace who're trying to warn you off. Joking aside, plenty of relatively inexperienced young men have owned Elises and the overwhelming majority of them have lived to tell the tale. And if you do crash, its a pretty strong little car, so you've got a good chance of walking away with nothing except your pride injured.
Go for it - they're definitely a lot of fun!
My Elise 111R is forgiving to drive. For the first time since owning it I got some lift off oversteer the other night... I got blinded by people coming the other way round the corner and just lifted off... didn't mean to. I felt the back go and immediately knew i'd ****'ed up but I simply reapplied some throttle and it was fine...
I'm not a driving god at all. I just treat it fairly and tend to only push it into corners which I know well (i.e. on my commute). When i'm on unfamiliar roads I just drive it like any other car...
I'm not a driving god at all. I just treat it fairly and tend to only push it into corners which I know well (i.e. on my commute). When i'm on unfamiliar roads I just drive it like any other car...
The Elise grips well and is responsive. In the right hands it is therefore a safe car.
I wouldn't describe it as forgiving though - if it lets go you must have been travelling way too fast for the prevailing conditions. I'm not trying to antagonise people who've had accidents here - even the best, most careful drivers can have accidents through events which could not reasonably have been expected (e.g. diesel / blow-outs / other road-users). After all, nobody wants to have an accident. So please don't flame me for that!
However, don't read 'high performance - high on-road limits' as meaning forgiving. I've only had my Elise for 6 weeks and never gone anywhere near its limits. However I've driven both a fiat X1/9 and an MR2 beyond their limits (on track). When mid-engined cars let go, they're very very difficult to correct. Very unforgiving.
If you want a car that you can drive 'fast' (or even 'badly') and hope the car will save you, you need 4WD, TCS, ABS etc. But frankly, if you're going to drive so as to rely on safety aids (or a forgiving nature) then I think you want to be doing it in a controlled (or track) environment so you don't over-do it on the road. An Elise would be a fun way to get that experience, but IMHO not without tuition on the road.
I wouldn't describe it as forgiving though - if it lets go you must have been travelling way too fast for the prevailing conditions. I'm not trying to antagonise people who've had accidents here - even the best, most careful drivers can have accidents through events which could not reasonably have been expected (e.g. diesel / blow-outs / other road-users). After all, nobody wants to have an accident. So please don't flame me for that!
However, don't read 'high performance - high on-road limits' as meaning forgiving. I've only had my Elise for 6 weeks and never gone anywhere near its limits. However I've driven both a fiat X1/9 and an MR2 beyond their limits (on track). When mid-engined cars let go, they're very very difficult to correct. Very unforgiving.
If you want a car that you can drive 'fast' (or even 'badly') and hope the car will save you, you need 4WD, TCS, ABS etc. But frankly, if you're going to drive so as to rely on safety aids (or a forgiving nature) then I think you want to be doing it in a controlled (or track) environment so you don't over-do it on the road. An Elise would be a fun way to get that experience, but IMHO not without tuition on the road.
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