Anyone know the full story?
Discussion
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lincolnshire/78...
Brilliant reporting there from the Beeb:
"The Land Rover had many "ill-judged" modifications designed to improve its off-road performance, the court heard."
".......as it mounted the grass verge a bracket close to the rear axle snapped, causing it to turn on its side then flip over and roll down the bank."
Anyone fancy elaborating?
Brilliant reporting there from the Beeb:
"The Land Rover had many "ill-judged" modifications designed to improve its off-road performance, the court heard."
".......as it mounted the grass verge a bracket close to the rear axle snapped, causing it to turn on its side then flip over and roll down the bank."
Anyone fancy elaborating?
Old news this - there was a long post on it.
Through the combined power of the Internet we deduced that the bloke was a cheapskate Muppet who should never have interfered with his vehicle and certainly should never have then driven it like a t
t with his family on board.
We all agreed that it was indeed very sad he had to learn the hard way though.
Hope this Helps.
Think this is it; http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Through the combined power of the Internet we deduced that the bloke was a cheapskate Muppet who should never have interfered with his vehicle and certainly should never have then driven it like a t
t with his family on board.We all agreed that it was indeed very sad he had to learn the hard way though.
Hope this Helps.
Think this is it; http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Edited by MrMoonyMan on Friday 23 January 11:51
Unfortunately, any modifications you make to a car (legally) to make it go better off road are always going to make it handle much worse on the road, its a compromise. My Range Rover classic with mods handled like an ocean liner and made me extremely nervous when goign over about 50mph.....
Used to know this guy from the LRO forums a few years ago. Was a lovely bloke and would have done anything for his kids. If he thought that vehicle to be dangerous, there's no way he'd have put his kids in it. Since he was a mechanic by trade, he should have known better I guess. But there's no way he'd knowingly take a risk and endanger his family if he thought the vehicle genuinely posed a threat. I feel incredibly sorry for him, and don't really see what a custodial sentence does apart from rob his remaining kids of their father for a few years whilst they need him most. I see why he was jailed on a technical level, but still think it's the wrong decision. Losing four of your kids and your long term partner leaving you is enough punishment for any man...
Edited by wiffmaster on Friday 23 January 13:27
Hmm
Reading more into this, it appears one of the brake calipers was larger than the other at the front, the driver's seat wasn't bolted down properly, and the crash was the result of an alleged bodged suspension repair which caused the axle to part company with the chassis?
Further to that, he lied to the grandparents of the deceased about events leading up to the accident - if he had been innocent why did he feel the need to do this?
I dont wish to comment / have no right to comment as I don't know enough about the ins and outs, but as he carried out all the work on the vehicle, and has some sort of mechanical backround, surely it should have been obvious to him the vehicle was not road-worthy?
Thats the opinion the general public will cling to anyway
IMO jail won't make this any worse for the guy, he will have to live with this for the rest of his life and for that fact alone I beleive "justice" has been served
Reading more into this, it appears one of the brake calipers was larger than the other at the front, the driver's seat wasn't bolted down properly, and the crash was the result of an alleged bodged suspension repair which caused the axle to part company with the chassis?
Further to that, he lied to the grandparents of the deceased about events leading up to the accident - if he had been innocent why did he feel the need to do this?
I dont wish to comment / have no right to comment as I don't know enough about the ins and outs, but as he carried out all the work on the vehicle, and has some sort of mechanical backround, surely it should have been obvious to him the vehicle was not road-worthy?
Thats the opinion the general public will cling to anyway
IMO jail won't make this any worse for the guy, he will have to live with this for the rest of his life and for that fact alone I beleive "justice" has been served
wiffmaster said:
Used to know this guy from the LRO forums a few years ago. Was a lovely bloke and would have done anything for his kids. If he thought that vehicle to be dangerous, there's no way he'd have put his kids in it. Since he was a mechanic by trade, he should have known better I guess. But there's no way he'd knowingly take a risk and endanger his family if he thought the vehicle genuinely posed a threat. I feel incredibly sorry for him, and don't really see what a custodial sentence does apart from rob his remaining kids of their father for a few years whilst they need him most. I see why he was jailed on a technical level, but still think it's the wrong decision. Losing four of your kids and your long term partner leaving you is enough punishment for any man...
He was a mechanic. He fitted different sized front brake calipers amongst other dangerous mods. He drove his unroadworthy vehicle like a tt with his kids onboard. He wasn't jailed on a technical level, it was for causing the death of four children by dangerous driving. I find it hard to understand your point of view.BigLepton said:
He was a mechanic. He fitted different sized front brake calipers amongst other dangerous mods. He drove his unroadworthy vehicle like a tt with his kids onboard. He wasn't jailed on a technical level, it was for causing the death of four children by dangerous driving. I find it hard to understand your point of view.
I understand exactly why he was jailed, and am sort of ambivalent about it if I'm honest; I can see both viewpoints. Maybe my judgment is clouded as I spoke to him on various LR forums before all this happened and formed an opinion of the bloke. As I see it, jail is meant to act as a deterrent and something which stops people re-offending. Seeing as how the guy now has no partner and four of his kids are dead, I'd say that in itself is a deterrent and the guy has learnt a lesson in the most horrific way possible. I just don't see the benefit to society or his remaining family of the jail term; I don't see it doing any good, but still understand why he was jailed. t with his kids onboard. He wasn't jailed on a technical level, it was for causing the death of four children by dangerous driving. I find it hard to understand your point of view.wiffmaster said:
BigLepton said:
He was a mechanic. He fitted different sized front brake calipers amongst other dangerous mods. He drove his unroadworthy vehicle like a tt with his kids onboard. He wasn't jailed on a technical level, it was for causing the death of four children by dangerous driving. I find it hard to understand your point of view.
I understand exactly why he was jailed, and am sort of ambivalent about it if I'm honest; I can see both viewpoints. Maybe my judgment is clouded as I spoke to him on various LR forums before all this happened and formed an opinion of the bloke. As I see it, jail is meant to act as a deterrent and something which stops people re-offending. Seeing as how the guy now has no partner and four of his kids are dead, I'd say that in itself is a deterrent and the guy has learnt a lesson in the most horrific way possible. I just don't see the benefit to society or his remaining family of the jail term; I don't see it doing any good, but still understand why he was jailed. t with his kids onboard. He wasn't jailed on a technical level, it was for causing the death of four children by dangerous driving. I find it hard to understand your point of view.I can understand sympathy for an event such as happened to 10pence short becaue he had an accident and paid the price. It is not, IMHO, a mistake for a mechanic to drive dangerously in an unroadworthy car with his kids on board, it is negligence.
BigLepton said:
Apache said:
Speaking from personal experience of this type of vehicle, the drivers seat could be the cushion you sit on and covers what used to be the fuel filler in older models. They are always loose and won't go anywhere anyway.
None of that is true on a 110.Apache said:
BigLepton said:
Apache said:
Speaking from personal experience of this type of vehicle, the drivers seat could be the cushion you sit on and covers what used to be the fuel filler in older models. They are always loose and won't go anywhere anyway.
None of that is true on a 110.
BigLepton said:
No, jail is designed to achieve three things - firstly it is to punish the offender for killing his children through using an unroadworthy vehicle and driving it dangerously. Secondly it is designed to deter others from thinking it is OK to carry their children in a vehicle they know is unsafe whilst driving in a dangerous manner and thirdly it is designed to protect the public from people who think it is OK to drive an unroadworthy vehicle in a dangerous manner on public roads.
I can understand sympathy for an event such as happened to 10pence short becaue he had an accident and paid the price. It is not, IMHO, a mistake for a mechanic to drive dangerously in an unroadworthy car with his kids on board, it is negligence.
I see what you're saying and honestly I'm still not sure how I feel myself on this one (normally I'm quite black and white on stuff like this). Part of me thinks it's the right decision to send a message to others and punish somebody for their wrongdoing, and part of me thinks it's counterproductive and will just drive the family further apart without offering any real benefit to anybody. I can understand sympathy for an event such as happened to 10pence short becaue he had an accident and paid the price. It is not, IMHO, a mistake for a mechanic to drive dangerously in an unroadworthy car with his kids on board, it is negligence.
I still think that for most people who've read the story, the thing that ensures they will never do something similar is the fact that they don't want to lose their kids, their partner and effectively their whole life as they know it. The guy screwed up and has now lost everything - does jail really send out a stronger message than that?
Possibly a long driving ban and preventing him from working on his own/others' cars would have had the same effect with regards to public safety? I don't really know what to think...
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