Elise Brake Question

[ant111s]

Just got my car back today from having the Cat C service done by sportmotive, all 4 break pads needed replacing and were replaced, and the disks were drilled out at the same time, driving home every time i break i get a high squeek from the front breaks. do you recon it will go in time as the breaks just need breaking in, excuse the pun?

[Hollywood Wheels]

Disks 'drilled out'? Do you mean skimmed? What pads are they? Give them a proper running-in and they should be okay. Some pads just squeel anyway, such as the mintex 1144. Do about 5 hard stops from 70mph and they should be okay.

[ant111s]

Yea on the service notes, it states "replace front & rear brake pads, Drill out holes in front disks"

dont know what the make of the pads are, it makes the squeel just as touch the breaks (sounds as if metal is on metal, same sound as when break pads are low) if i put hard pressure on it, it doesnt squeel.. any ideas?

[Hollywood Wheels]

Don't like the sound of "drill out holes in front discs" at all!

Until you do the bedding-in technique it's hard to say if there is a problem. Have you had a look at the caliper and pads through the spokes of the wheel? I'd get a torch in there just to make sure everything is lined up okay and there isn't a stone or something stuck in the pad.

[loopylea]

Probably means that they just cleaned out the drilled holes in the discs, if it has them.....

[ant111s]

loopylea said:

Probably means that they just cleaned out the drilled holes in the discs, if it has them.....

yea it has drilled disks.. Im all comfy in bed now ill have a look 2moz see if its all lined up ok and report 2moz.. THE PLOT THICKENS lol

[ant111s]

could you elaberate on the "bedding-in technique" for me please.. Im abit special lol

[S Works]

To bed them in just take the car out for a good long drive, braking progressively from speed to a standstill. Start at a relatively low speed, then gradually increase to about 70 and do a few hard stops. Lots of people suggest doing very technical routines to bed them in, but I've never bothered as two eminent specialists told me not to bother, just to drive the car as normal. All the pads I've had have been fine!

If they are squealing badly then it suggests that the pads are not seated in the calipers fully. Check the pads are fitted correctly firstly - I had a problem like yours when someone had fitted pads incorrectly (the retaining springs weren't put on properly), so the pads were moving in the calipers. If they are seated properly and it's still squealing like mad, normally pad buffers will stop it, so if none are fitted, order some from Eliseparts and stick them in. Costs peanuts and takes minutes. All the info you need is in the SELOC wiki.

[cyberface]

loopylea said:

Probably means that they just cleaned out the drilled holes in the discs, if it has them.....

Correct.

Elises and Exiges with the drilled discs (i.e. transverse holes drilled through the face of the disc) will eventually suffer from these holes getting packed with brake dust, eventually removing the only benefit drilled discs have (i.e. allowing vaporised pad material to escape through the hole and not build up a cushioning / lubricating layer between disc and pad). If you track your car then you'll get this after one track day with OEM pads (different pad brands perform differently, YMMV, IANAL, yadda yadda).

For example, the brake bite on my boggo Exige S (heavy, fat touring spec) at the beginning of my late Dec trackday at Brands was very sharp. At the end of the day, the brakes were rumbling, grumbling and felt like they were overheating (they weren't). Yes, I was going significantly faster. But on looking through the wheels, the holes in the discs were full of black brake dust.

Speaking to Parky (Lotus driving instructor, works at Lipscomb Lotus) at the time, he said the Performance Pack discs were even worse for this, but all drilled discs have this problem. When I was tracking Porker 993s (which all had drilled discs, but smaller holes and more of them to the Lotus disc) it was a fairly regular 'maintenance' procedure to use a cordless drill or a pipe cleaner brush to clean out the holes.

So nothing to worry about, per se.

Personally I want to change my brakes - it appears that the 'big brake' AP kit is more or less universally considered to be utter overkill (the Elise Trophy racers don't use them, IIRC) but a pad and disc change would be good. I'd like to go back to EBC's race pads (which I used to great effect on the 993) - I used Red on the 993 but everyone in Lotuses uses Yellow and appear to have good results, so I'll be fitting these. However the BIG thing for me is to get away from drilled discs **entirely** - whilst I understand the benefits, and was most secure with brake performance in my Porkers (which were drilled, I admit), I really can't ever get over this:


Needless to say I've got a phobia of big-hole drilled discs, and would MUCH rather have simply grooved and ventilated discs, like the EliseParts (IIRC) ally belled disc kit. That's what I'd *really* like for confidence (yeah, the above incident was at 100+ mph anchoring down at the end of Lavant straight at Goodwood, if it'd happened 5 seconds earlier then I'd hit the wall in a non-caged 205 at 80-100 mph, and I wouldn't be talking about it now. One of the thankfully *few* near-death experiences that had nothing to do with my incompetence - mechanical failure always scares me really...)

[wantalotus]

Blatent thread hi-jack here..............
Just about to get my 54 111R serviced, at 19000 Mls. Last year they warned me that new front discs and pads, and rear pads would probably be in order at this service. Is this a little early, never been tracked or used and abused. The pads I could live with, but discs at 19k Mls, seams a little early to me.

BUT

If it is the case, what are peoples thoughts on Yellow stuff, and EBC discs? Suitable for spirited road use?

Thanks,

and sorry about the hi-jack again, but the topic name just said it all for me..

[cyberface]

Yellow are EBC's recommended pad for the Lotus Elise / Exige / etc. There was a bit of a hullabaloo a while back where EBC got unfairly slated because their Green pad is utterly abysmal on the Elise (and all lightweight cars I've tried... sadly there appear to be a fair few Elises out there fitted with Green pads). Now the Green pad most certainly **is** absolutely awful on the Elise, but some people extrapolated this to 'all EBC products are poor'. In reality, the Green pad was *never* rated for the Elise, and the MD of EBC signed up here to argue his case.

IIRC he offered to send, free of charge, a set of the EBC 'recommended' pad for the Elise to a couple of the people involved in the debate. They received Yellow (which is two grades 'faster' than the Green...) as did a few other people who also wanted to try out EBC's pads for free. So far everyone who runs Yellows appears to be happy with them.

I've had great results on a supercharged 993 with EBC's Red pad (chosen because the indie servicing garage that looked after my 993 raced 944s, and used Red pads for the racing, so that sounded good enough for me) but the Yellow is the recommended pad for Elises, so I'll be swapping to Yellow pads in Spring.

The main reason why I'm going to stick with EBC yellows rather than the 'de facto' choice of Pagid RS42s (blues) for road and track is because the Pagids are (a) not for road use, and (b) expensive. I've heard they also squeal a lot, which I can't stand on road, but a lot of that is down to bedding-in procedure. I admit that the Pagids are very highly thought of, but the 'road use' issue worries me...

I know it's unlikely, but having pads marked 'for track use only' both by the pad manufacturer and in the Lotus accessories brochure sounds like possible excuses for an insurer to weasel out of a claim. I've had recent grief from insurers (6 months to settle a simple claim) so I'm playing everything by the book for the time being... the EBC Yellows are allegedly used by the traffic Police pursuit vehicles so must be homologated for road use Europe-wide, IIRC.

[wantalotus]

yeah, just done some searching and the yellow stuff are looking good, couple that with EBC discs I supose. Just looking for a good deal now?

[Hollywood Wheels]

EBC USR discs are a great piece of kit for the price, I can recommend them. I'll be trying the yellowstuffs once my Mintex 1144's are finished.

[ant111s]

thanks to all the people that commented and gave me some advice, ill give it a couple of days then take it to quick fit or similar so they can have a look at the brakes.

[Hollywood Wheels]

ant111s said:

take it to quick fit

I wouldn't do that personally. Take it to a local independent garage, and watch them whilst they have a look at the pads in relation to the caliper. Have you actually done the bedding-in proceedure yet, which will probably sort it?

[noodleman]

I was one of those that got the free yellows + discs from Andy @ EBC.

I think they're great. Awesome stopping power and feel when hot but with comparable to OEM power when cold.

Just to set the record stright though....The tone of the original thread was only that Greenstuff were cr*p on the Elise. I don't remember anyone sgging off the company or it's products as a whole.

Andy threw his toys out of the pram....I (and some others) got free stuff...Reviews of free stuff have been universally positive....People now buy EBC pads and discs....

All's well that ends well.

[kambites]

Actually the latest green-stuff pads don't seem anywhere near as bad. OK they're no Mintex 1144s, but they eem at least as good as the OEM part and they're a damned slight cheaper.

[noodleman]

Quite possible. EBC did change the compound last year.

I'm sticking with Yellows though.

[ant111s]

Rang sportomotive this morning he said give it about 60 miles if it hasnt stopped give them a call.

[miro]

Just checked the EBC site and they only show Red and green stuff as options for the Elise 2004+ (yota)