Is it ok to kill a child....even in war?
Discussion
After a hefty drinking session down my usual drinking hole, I was left shocked and deeply disturned by something I was told by a young Jewish adult. I don't think it had anything to do with her being Jewish. In fact, now that I think about it, it had nothing to do with this. It was more the comments that she made.
War is a gruesome and frightening prospect. Nobody really prospers from such an event yet even in war, there are morals that I believe should be challenged.
No matter how you look at it, a child should never be involved in war. There are evil people in life that place a weapon in the hands of a child, but in all reality, a child cannot have any responsibility for their actions in war. They are simply "brainwashed" into believing they are doing the "right" thing since their role-models are those senior and what they believe wiser to them.
However, today I was confronted with another view. A young non-Israeli Jewish girl told me what happened in Palestine was deserved. The fact that children were killed was irrelevant and as far as she was concerned, if the child had the "potential" to grow up and be a Hamas supporter, it deserved to be killed.
At that point, I was shocked, and felt physically sick that a person who was seemingly educated could say such a comment. As far as I was concerned, this is about as low as the Nazi's got in WW2.
No matter how I approached her, she always seemed to come out with the same answer, even when I cornered her.
Even now I am shocked and appalled by what I witnessed today in my "civilised" society. I'm frightened not just for the innocent people of Palestine, but for the future of Israel. If this is the view of young Jews and Israeli's, then "God" save us all. We're going to need all the help we can get.
War is a gruesome and frightening prospect. Nobody really prospers from such an event yet even in war, there are morals that I believe should be challenged.
No matter how you look at it, a child should never be involved in war. There are evil people in life that place a weapon in the hands of a child, but in all reality, a child cannot have any responsibility for their actions in war. They are simply "brainwashed" into believing they are doing the "right" thing since their role-models are those senior and what they believe wiser to them.
However, today I was confronted with another view. A young non-Israeli Jewish girl told me what happened in Palestine was deserved. The fact that children were killed was irrelevant and as far as she was concerned, if the child had the "potential" to grow up and be a Hamas supporter, it deserved to be killed.
At that point, I was shocked, and felt physically sick that a person who was seemingly educated could say such a comment. As far as I was concerned, this is about as low as the Nazi's got in WW2.
No matter how I approached her, she always seemed to come out with the same answer, even when I cornered her.
Even now I am shocked and appalled by what I witnessed today in my "civilised" society. I'm frightened not just for the innocent people of Palestine, but for the future of Israel. If this is the view of young Jews and Israeli's, then "God" save us all. We're going to need all the help we can get.
Unfortunately as 'brainwashed' as these kids may be in whatever they believe in, it comes down to a simple fight or flight question. Child has gun pointing at you, do you a) use moral judgement, tell yourself its an innocent child with a mis-guided up bringing and have your head blown off or b) shoot them first before they shoot you. In a situation like that it makes no differance if its a child or sdult, ite you or them. As much as I agree that it is absolutely disgusting that children are used in this way, they are used exactly for that purpose, to pick at someones subconscience, theres a big word for it but can't remember what it is at this time of the morning! It not right or acceptable but needs must.
Edited by mrsxllifts on Monday 26th January 00:42
There are a whole host of considerations that could cloud the issue. It's all very well having a moral standpoint outwith the scenario but several things could, in reality, skew it.
As already mentioned, for example, the kid could be pointing a gun at you. Or they could be ginger. You just don't know until it happens.
As already mentioned, for example, the kid could be pointing a gun at you. Or they could be ginger. You just don't know until it happens.
If the child was posing a direct threat to life, say a child soldier with an AK47, bomb belt, etc, then yes, unfortunately, it would be 'acceptable' to kill a child to save others.
What this girl was talking about is unacceptable though - a child being killed because they had the 'potential' to be a Hamas terrorist? Even an Israeli child has the 'potential' to be one, so her argument falls flat on its face right there. I think this was a case of a Jewish princess talking out of her arse.
What this girl was talking about is unacceptable though - a child being killed because they had the 'potential' to be a Hamas terrorist? Even an Israeli child has the 'potential' to be one, so her argument falls flat on its face right there. I think this was a case of a Jewish princess talking out of her arse.
s
gathore said:
gathore said: You should have left the Jewish/Hamas thing out, and rounded it off to any sort of war situation.
This thread is going to be at least a 10 pages by the morning
I was just giving the facts of our conversation!This thread is going to be at least a 10 pages by the morning
I'm truly disturbed by it all and I've written to her Jewish university in Vienna, (anonymously and without including her name), the conversation we had.
I'd also point out that I am not talking about a child holding an AK47 in your face. I'm talking about the justification of killing 450+ children in bombing raids and using the fact that they may become "potential" Hamas recruits in their later life as an excuse for their deaths (or from my point of view, their murders).
.. act and think afterwards. Kids make highly effective killers and your actions at times of stress are something that you can never predict.
WRT the conversation; perhaps she has her reasons for saying what she said, but it takes a certain kind of toughness to be so devoid of compassion that even the thought that they might become something is reason/justification for them to die. That way lies madness, gas chambers, firing squads and killing fields.
WRT the conversation; perhaps she has her reasons for saying what she said, but it takes a certain kind of toughness to be so devoid of compassion that even the thought that they might become something is reason/justification for them to die. That way lies madness, gas chambers, firing squads and killing fields.
Edited by drivin_me_nuts on Monday 26th January 00:59
NEVER EVER!this question has no valid answer,it has always happened and always will happen,
Right or wrong.
Its wrong to kill any one not directly involved,but thats impossible.
If a kid is pointing a gun at you he knows what he`s doing and knows what awaits him if you get him first.
Then fair enough.
Right or wrong.
Its wrong to kill any one not directly involved,but thats impossible.
If a kid is pointing a gun at you he knows what he`s doing and knows what awaits him if you get him first.
Then fair enough.
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