Image Stabiliser - 300mm lens
Discussion
So I'm a complete novice on SLR's and lenses and stuff, but am thinking about buying this for the wife:
http://www.jessops.com/online.store/categories/Cam...
The thing is I quite like the idea of playing with a zoom lens, as never had a proper camera with one on before, but the uber-geek in Jessops said that I can't use the Tamron 300mm lens without a tripod as there will be too much shake, because there is no image stabiliser.
Doesn't mean much to me, but we'll want to be using it as hand held, so am I wasting my money getting the dual lens bundle if the Tamron lens is going to give shaky pictures. I can't really stretch to a full on Canon lens, so would really value some opinions
Thanks
http://www.jessops.com/online.store/categories/Cam...
The thing is I quite like the idea of playing with a zoom lens, as never had a proper camera with one on before, but the uber-geek in Jessops said that I can't use the Tamron 300mm lens without a tripod as there will be too much shake, because there is no image stabiliser.
Doesn't mean much to me, but we'll want to be using it as hand held, so am I wasting my money getting the dual lens bundle if the Tamron lens is going to give shaky pictures. I can't really stretch to a full on Canon lens, so would really value some opinions
Thanks
Thanks guys
GetCarter - presumably that's without IS is it?
Quinny - Appreciate that, it's mainly only going to be people, holidays snaps, that sort of thing, about the fastest it'll get is rowing photos! I appreciate any really long exposure would need a tri-pod, but from what you're saying it doesn't sound like it's going to be really necessary for outdoor general stuff.
GetCarter - presumably that's without IS is it?
Quinny - Appreciate that, it's mainly only going to be people, holidays snaps, that sort of thing, about the fastest it'll get is rowing photos! I appreciate any really long exposure would need a tri-pod, but from what you're saying it doesn't sound like it's going to be really necessary for outdoor general stuff.
JRM said:
The thing is I quite like the idea of playing with a zoom lens, as never had a proper camera with one on before, but the uber-geek in Jessops said that I can't use the Tamron 300mm lens without a tripod as there will be too much shake, because there is no image stabiliser.
Complete rubbish, and a sad observation on somebody either tring to upsell you, or the fact that nobody can work a camera without IS/VR any more, or both.Of course you can use a 300mm lens without electronic strap-on toys! Assuming you have normally steady hands, just keep the shutter speed above 1/250th, or 1/500th to be sure.
I don't own any IS lenses either. It's nice, but I'd rather buy better (faster) glass than have cheaper glass with fancy electronics to make it faster. You'll be fine without it, yes it helps, but people have been taking decent shots without it for years...
To quantifiy things, IS is usually worth 2-3 stops with proper long lens technique. So that means you could use the lens in a quarter (2 stops) or an eighth (3 stops) of the light of a lens with IS. Sounds a lot, but then Light levels change massively thoughout the day. Alternatively you could up the iso a couple of three stops, and have two or four times the noise.
For what it's worth IIRC that's one of the better consumer 70-300's, with a good 1:2 "macro" function.
To quantifiy things, IS is usually worth 2-3 stops with proper long lens technique. So that means you could use the lens in a quarter (2 stops) or an eighth (3 stops) of the light of a lens with IS. Sounds a lot, but then Light levels change massively thoughout the day. Alternatively you could up the iso a couple of three stops, and have two or four times the noise.
For what it's worth IIRC that's one of the better consumer 70-300's, with a good 1:2 "macro" function.
Simpo Two said:
JRM said:
The thing is I quite like the idea of playing with a zoom lens, as never had a proper camera with one on before, but the uber-geek in Jessops said that I can't use the Tamron 300mm lens without a tripod as there will be too much shake, because there is no image stabiliser.
Complete rubbish, and a sad observation on somebody either tring to upsell you, or the fact that nobody can work a camera without IS/VR any more, or both.Of course you can use a 300mm lens without electronic strap-on toys! Assuming you have normally steady hands, just keep the shutter speed above 1/250th, or 1/500th to be sure.
JRM said:
Thanks guys
GetCarter - presumably that's without IS is it?
Indeed. IS is for wimps GetCarter - presumably that's without IS is it?
..TBH IS will give you a 'stop' so you can take photos is slightly darker conditions... but as mentioned, if you can hold a camera steady, you don't NEED I.S.
300 handheld in fairly overcast conditions... no I.S.
Edited by GetCarter on Tuesday 27th January 18:41
Just in case you're in need of further reassurance, I just took the picture below from one side of our bedroom to the other on exactly that combination....
This is at 1/100th sec, f5.6 and ISO 800. I've not made any changes in processing the RAW file other than to crank up the clarity as far as it will go to show every blemish. OK, it's not brilliant, but how often are you going to be using 300mm of zoom and no flash with low indoor lighting?
You'll probably get hooked like everyone else on here and send your kids out cleaning chimneys to pay for more lenses, but it's certainly a perfectly good lens!
ETA - Forgot to add the obvious which is that this shot is handheld, and whilst I'm no Michael J Fox, I've not got the hand control of a surgeon either.
This is at 1/100th sec, f5.6 and ISO 800. I've not made any changes in processing the RAW file other than to crank up the clarity as far as it will go to show every blemish. OK, it's not brilliant, but how often are you going to be using 300mm of zoom and no flash with low indoor lighting?
You'll probably get hooked like everyone else on here and send your kids out cleaning chimneys to pay for more lenses, but it's certainly a perfectly good lens!
ETA - Forgot to add the obvious which is that this shot is handheld, and whilst I'm no Michael J Fox, I've not got the hand control of a surgeon either.
Edited by Kermit power on Tuesday 27th January 19:52
GetCarter said:
JRM said:
Thanks guys
GetCarter - presumably that's without IS is it?
Indeed. IS is for wimps GetCarter - presumably that's without IS is it?
..TBH IS will give you a 'stop' so you can take photos is slightly darker conditions... but as mentioned, if you can hold a camera steady, you don't NEED I.S.
300 handheld in fairly overcast conditions... no I.S.
Edited by GetCarter on Tuesday 27th January 18:41
To be fair a lot of it is technique. If you take a moment to steady yourself before shooting (think rifle), or brace yourself or camera against a handy tree etc, you'll be amazed at the difference. Of course it won't help you freeze subject movement (and neither will IS/VR); that's where 'fast glass' comes in 
Edited by Simpo Two on Tuesday 27th January 20:56
Technique and having enough light.
I've used a 300mm without IS plenty, and 400 (tho usualy use a tripod there if I can).
Your going to get less keepers and have to watch the shutter speed more, probably have to hike the ISO by a stop or two more than if you had IS.
IS is nice but only helps 2-3 stops, so the situations if actualy helps are limited (between plenty of light and so little you need a tripod regardless).
I've used a 300mm without IS plenty, and 400 (tho usualy use a tripod there if I can).
Your going to get less keepers and have to watch the shutter speed more, probably have to hike the ISO by a stop or two more than if you had IS.
IS is nice but only helps 2-3 stops, so the situations if actualy helps are limited (between plenty of light and so little you need a tripod regardless).
As has already been mentioned, rule of thumb is 1/focal length for handheld for 'normal' shakiness in most people.
So at 300mm you should really be shooting at 1/300 or faster.
Wish someone had told Canon that when they configured auto-ISO on the 5D2....
Assuming the lens is for a Canon, there are many 75-300 zoom around from many manufacturers (Canon, Sigma, Tamron etc.) all are much of a muchness, though at £130 this is not all bad: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Canon-75-300mm-4-0-5-6-III...
So at 300mm you should really be shooting at 1/300 or faster.
Wish someone had told Canon that when they configured auto-ISO on the 5D2....
Assuming the lens is for a Canon, there are many 75-300 zoom around from many manufacturers (Canon, Sigma, Tamron etc.) all are much of a muchness, though at £130 this is not all bad: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Canon-75-300mm-4-0-5-6-III...
Like others I've taken a lot of pictures at 300mm or more without a tripod and without difficulties (I have a Sigma 135-400 zoom).
Just a thought though - can you not get a camera with stabilisation on the body rather than having to get it on every lens? I don't know about Canon but my (relatively cheap) Sony A300 does this so I get stabilization with my old Minolta lenses. I find it more useful indoors in low light with short lenses than with telephotos outdoors.
Just a thought though - can you not get a camera with stabilisation on the body rather than having to get it on every lens? I don't know about Canon but my (relatively cheap) Sony A300 does this so I get stabilization with my old Minolta lenses. I find it more useful indoors in low light with short lenses than with telephotos outdoors.
Indeed, the new Pentax K-m has stabilisation built into the body and is great value - this is a good kit and cheaper than the one you are looking for:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pentax-K-m-18-55-50-200mm-...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pentax-K-m-18-55-50-200mm-...
I have that lens - also bought from Jessops as part of a bundle with my 400d.
Can't add anything to the comments above about the merits of IS and the rules for handholding a telephoto lens - all of which seems to be excellent advice, except to add that a monopod will let you get away with lower shutter speeds than handhelding and at £20 or so is a lot cheaper than an IS lens and a lot more convenient when out and about than a tripod.
Perhaps a few comments from my own experience with this particular lens may be helpful though.
Firstly, Jessops try to pass this off as a £200 lens to make the bundle look like a good deal - it's not a £200 lens though even though that's what they sell it for, you can get it for just over £100 from lots of places - factor that in when working out if the Jessops bundle is actually the deal it appears to be.
http://www.camerapricebuster.co.uk/prod261.html
That said, for a £100 lens it's a great buy and I've had a lot of fun with it and taken some great photos. It does have some limitations though, specifically it's quite soft at the larger appertures and at focal lengths over 200mm - you need to stop it down to at least f8 to get a nice sharp image, which realistically when combined with the 1/(focal length) shutter speed rule for handhelding means that it's only really useful outside in bright daylight, under which conditions I've taken some photos I'm very proud of - my attempts to use it in dim light, or inside with flash have been dissapointing even when using a tripod or monopod.
After a couple of years I think I've outgrown it and am ready to treat myself to a better long zoom - trying to decide between a Canon 70-200 f4L or a Canon 70-300 F4-5.6 IS.
Not trying to put you off by any means - I've really enjoyed owning this lens - but don't be conned into thinking you're buying a £200 lens, you can get better at that price point (notably the Canon EF-S 55-250 which does happen to have IS but is also much better optically).
Some more opinions of this lens here:
http://www.fredmiranda.com/reviews/showproduct.php...
Can't add anything to the comments above about the merits of IS and the rules for handholding a telephoto lens - all of which seems to be excellent advice, except to add that a monopod will let you get away with lower shutter speeds than handhelding and at £20 or so is a lot cheaper than an IS lens and a lot more convenient when out and about than a tripod.
Perhaps a few comments from my own experience with this particular lens may be helpful though.
Firstly, Jessops try to pass this off as a £200 lens to make the bundle look like a good deal - it's not a £200 lens though even though that's what they sell it for, you can get it for just over £100 from lots of places - factor that in when working out if the Jessops bundle is actually the deal it appears to be.
http://www.camerapricebuster.co.uk/prod261.html
That said, for a £100 lens it's a great buy and I've had a lot of fun with it and taken some great photos. It does have some limitations though, specifically it's quite soft at the larger appertures and at focal lengths over 200mm - you need to stop it down to at least f8 to get a nice sharp image, which realistically when combined with the 1/(focal length) shutter speed rule for handhelding means that it's only really useful outside in bright daylight, under which conditions I've taken some photos I'm very proud of - my attempts to use it in dim light, or inside with flash have been dissapointing even when using a tripod or monopod.
After a couple of years I think I've outgrown it and am ready to treat myself to a better long zoom - trying to decide between a Canon 70-200 f4L or a Canon 70-300 F4-5.6 IS.
Not trying to put you off by any means - I've really enjoyed owning this lens - but don't be conned into thinking you're buying a £200 lens, you can get better at that price point (notably the Canon EF-S 55-250 which does happen to have IS but is also much better optically).
Some more opinions of this lens here:
http://www.fredmiranda.com/reviews/showproduct.php...
Edited by Seight_Returns on Wednesday 28th January 17:42
So I've just picked up the proper DSLR!!
Looks gorgeous, shame it's supposed to be a present for the wife
But aren't Jessops useless! I went in there yesterday and was told they had sold out of Canon 450d's and that it would be a week or so before they got any more.
Asked if they could call me when they had some more in. but no, best thing was for me to order online.
So this morning I buy the package online with option to collect from the same store. Ordered it at 9am, got an email at 9:50am saying it was ready to collect
Pop along to the shop just now and it's all there waiting for me - which is great, but the staff really are rubbish - mind you it's cheap so maybe that's why.
Anyway, now I need to see if I can wait 3 weeks before giving it to my wife - chances are I'll do it tonight!
Looks gorgeous, shame it's supposed to be a present for the wife
But aren't Jessops useless! I went in there yesterday and was told they had sold out of Canon 450d's and that it would be a week or so before they got any more.
Asked if they could call me when they had some more in. but no, best thing was for me to order online.
So this morning I buy the package online with option to collect from the same store. Ordered it at 9am, got an email at 9:50am saying it was ready to collect
Pop along to the shop just now and it's all there waiting for me - which is great, but the staff really are rubbish - mind you it's cheap so maybe that's why.
Anyway, now I need to see if I can wait 3 weeks before giving it to my wife - chances are I'll do it tonight!
JRM said:
So this morning I buy the package online with option to collect from the same store. Ordered it at 9am, got an email at 9:50am saying it was ready to collect
I asked about that when I picked up my new lens. Apparently, they run two separate warehouses - one for stores and the other for online orders. Thus, the stores warehouse was obviously out of stock, but the online one had stock.Madness, I know!
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