Emplyment Law Question (relocation or redundancy)
Discussion
Hi everyone. I have a few questions for the legal eagles on here.
My Wife is cabin crew for large British airline based in the Midlands that also fly's international.
She is based at, lets call it base A.
She received a letter yesterday stating that Base A is 5 crew members over crewed and to save making people redundant they are offering relocation to base B which is 40 miles (ish) further away from her current base (which is 40 miles away).
As part of the Relocation package they are offering £1000 in "valid receipted items" and if you are waiting for cabin manager promotion (which my wife is) that this would be given to you as they are short of those at base B.
As part of my wifes contract there is a mobility clause which states that if it is required that a base move is needed that adequate relocation costs would be covered.
Now this letter is asking for volunteers to either take this transfer OR go part time. If they do get enough takers they will be utilizing the mobility clause and forcing people to go.
There is no option to commute to base b as her contract also stipulates that she must be within 1 hour of her base of working. Which basically means that if she was to take the move, we would have to move house. As we have just (in the last 4 months) moved house to be closer to her work this is not an option.
My Wife just called after her base Manager called basically saying that she is going to be one of these that is forced, due to her being one of the last lot recruited, as in Last in first out. And if she doesn't take the move or part time then she would be made redundant.
Now i know the company will pay the base minimum redundancy which i have calculated at about 300 quid in total. If she went part time i would want a guarantee that her base would not change from base A.
We can just about afford for her to go part time (which would at least give us some income until she found a new job).
I want to know if this sounds above board and should we seek legal advice about this?
Thanks
Andy
My Wife is cabin crew for large British airline based in the Midlands that also fly's international.
She is based at, lets call it base A.
She received a letter yesterday stating that Base A is 5 crew members over crewed and to save making people redundant they are offering relocation to base B which is 40 miles (ish) further away from her current base (which is 40 miles away).
As part of the Relocation package they are offering £1000 in "valid receipted items" and if you are waiting for cabin manager promotion (which my wife is) that this would be given to you as they are short of those at base B.
As part of my wifes contract there is a mobility clause which states that if it is required that a base move is needed that adequate relocation costs would be covered.
Now this letter is asking for volunteers to either take this transfer OR go part time. If they do get enough takers they will be utilizing the mobility clause and forcing people to go.
There is no option to commute to base b as her contract also stipulates that she must be within 1 hour of her base of working. Which basically means that if she was to take the move, we would have to move house. As we have just (in the last 4 months) moved house to be closer to her work this is not an option.
My Wife just called after her base Manager called basically saying that she is going to be one of these that is forced, due to her being one of the last lot recruited, as in Last in first out. And if she doesn't take the move or part time then she would be made redundant.
Now i know the company will pay the base minimum redundancy which i have calculated at about 300 quid in total. If she went part time i would want a guarantee that her base would not change from base A.
We can just about afford for her to go part time (which would at least give us some income until she found a new job).
I want to know if this sounds above board and should we seek legal advice about this?
Thanks
Andy
Edited by eightseventhree on Wednesday 28th January 12:17
eightseventhree said:
As part of the Relocation package they are offering £1000 in "valid receipted items" and if you are waiting for cabin manager promotion (which my wife is) that this would be given to you as they are short of those at base B.
Unless you are single and renting, moving house will cost ££££££££'s. In 1998 I moved 70 miles with my wife and kids in tow and there was no change from £10K. Edited by eightseventhree on Wednesday 28th January 12:17
I had a single friend (renting) who was under threat of redundancy in West Yorks and was offered a move to Brum, with a small fee for relocation - paid for the van, b&b accomodation for 2 weeks and 'curtains'. He stuck it out for just under 3 months and then asked for his redundancy package, as by law if you are offered an alternative job, you can change your mind within 3 months. He'd spent all that time looking for a new job in the midlands and ended up at Jaguar with bonus of 4K redundancy.
Your wife needs some legal advice, but ACAS website might list the main points.
Also - consider that part time working too. Less money, but more time is NICE sometimes.
We are married and home owners . . so relocation is not an option.
The part time thing is there hopefully if there is no choice which would give us some cash while she looked for work.
I think the next thing is to seek advice.
Another thing is that the company is currently in a take over which is not due to take effect for a month or 2. Does this complicate things?
The part time thing is there hopefully if there is no choice which would give us some cash while she looked for work.
I think the next thing is to seek advice.
Another thing is that the company is currently in a take over which is not due to take effect for a month or 2. Does this complicate things?
james_tigerwoods said:
Could this not be construed as a case of constructive dismissal?
I very much doubt it. It is a case or downsizing at a specific location, and offering an alternate post (as they are legally obliged to do if one is available), or redundancy.I doubt that the op's wife will be able to get an assurance that if she goes part time, then this will not be subject to a change of location in the future. Companies can't really work that way as they may not know themselves what will happen in the future.
I would advise speaking to ACAS for some specific advice
Edited by Firefoot on Wednesday 28th January 14:38
I have had a chat with an employment law specialist and there advice was to reply to there letter in writing, explaining the the reasons why she is rejecting the offer for relocation with all the reasons etc.
Then at least it is documented. The interesting thing was that her boss saying well its a case of last in first out . . this specialist seems to think thats a discriminative action.
Will have to see how it pans out. I think if it comes to it then part time will be the last resort.
Then at least it is documented. The interesting thing was that her boss saying well its a case of last in first out . . this specialist seems to think thats a discriminative action.
Will have to see how it pans out. I think if it comes to it then part time will be the last resort.
Firefoot said:
james_tigerwoods said:
Could this not be construed as a case of constructive dismissal?
I very much doubt it. It is a case or downsizing at a specific location, and offering an alternate post (as they are legally obliged to do if one is available), or redundancy.I doubt that the op's wife will be able to get an assurance that if she goes part time, then this will not be subject to a change of location in the future. Companies can't really work that way as they may not know themselves what will happen in the future.
I would advise speaking to ACAS for some specific advice
It sounds very much like a downsize, but it sounds like it could be handled a bit better.
I'm no expert on this matter, but I am interested in this
eightseventhree said:
I have had a chat with an employment law specialist and there advice was to reply to there letter in writing, explaining the the reasons why she is rejecting the offer for relocation with all the reasons etc.
Then at least it is documented. The interesting thing was that her boss saying well its a case of last in first out . . this specialist seems to think thats a discriminative action.
Will have to see how it pans out. I think if it comes to it then part time will be the last resort.
Last in first out is a little dodgy to rely on for redundancy these days with the new Age Discrimination laws. The principle being that someone with longer service is likely to be older than a person with less service. A lot of companies now use a scoring method to assess your job value. The lowest scoring person is the one to go. All above board and fair (on the face of it) which is all the employer needs to keep them out of trouble.Then at least it is documented. The interesting thing was that her boss saying well its a case of last in first out . . this specialist seems to think thats a discriminative action.
Will have to see how it pans out. I think if it comes to it then part time will be the last resort.
Hope it all works out for your other half.
james_tigerwoods said:
Fair point, but by forcing them to relocate - even with a clause in the contract - couldn't that be viewed as a way of making the job so unbearable that you have to leave?
It sounds very much like a downsize, but it sounds like it could be handled a bit better.
From what the OP has said about the terms of the move, they are offering a reasonably sweet deal, you get an automatic promotion, £1000 for receipted items and relocation expenses. I believe the HMRC currently allow tax free expenses of up to £8k (but what actually gets paid would depend on the relocation terms of the contract).It sounds very much like a downsize, but it sounds like it could be handled a bit better.
I'm no expert on this matter, but I am interested in this
There is a need to downsize in the current location, and the company are trying to make a move as attractive as possible. They are even offering part time employment to remain at the current location. They sought volunteers before resorting to enforcing the mobility clause in the contract.
If the company is genuinely overstaffed at location A, then I think they have acted reasonably fairly.
(of course putting my cynical hat on, there is nothing to stop an unscrupulous company using this to get rid if someone they no longer want if they are fully aware that the person will not/can not relocate and can not afford to go part time)
eightseventhree said:
I have had a chat with an employment law specialist and there advice was to reply to there letter in writing, explaining the the reasons why she is rejecting the offer for relocation with all the reasons etc.
Then at least it is documented. The interesting thing was that her boss saying well its a case of last in first out . . this specialist seems to think thats a discriminative action.
Will have to see how it pans out. I think if it comes to it then part time will be the last resort.
I'm sure there are absolutely loads of other jobs out there...Then at least it is documented. The interesting thing was that her boss saying well its a case of last in first out . . this specialist seems to think thats a discriminative action.
Will have to see how it pans out. I think if it comes to it then part time will be the last resort.
eightseventhree said:
I have had a chat with an employment law specialist and there advice was to reply to there letter in writing, explaining the the reasons why she is rejecting the offer for relocation with all the reasons etc.
Then at least it is documented. The interesting thing was that her boss saying well its a case of last in first out . . this specialist seems to think thats a discriminative action.
Will have to see how it pans out. I think if it comes to it then part time will be the last resort.
If she's intending to take action over discrimination, then she'll also need to change industries when getting another job.Then at least it is documented. The interesting thing was that her boss saying well its a case of last in first out . . this specialist seems to think thats a discriminative action.
Will have to see how it pans out. I think if it comes to it then part time will be the last resort.
Update.
the £1000 is the relocation package
Apparently there has been quite a few takers so far. Everyone has been asked to write a letter with what they think. What we are going to put in ours is that relocation is a resounding no, But if its the choice of redundancy or part time then part time it will be. If there are more than enough people subscribe then people will be able to choose what they want to do.
If we did go part time it wouldn't be the end of the world as its cash while she looks for another job
We really don't want to have to go down the legal route as its a lot of headache and never a good thing to have to do if wanting to get another job within the same industry.
the £1000 is the relocation package
Apparently there has been quite a few takers so far. Everyone has been asked to write a letter with what they think. What we are going to put in ours is that relocation is a resounding no, But if its the choice of redundancy or part time then part time it will be. If there are more than enough people subscribe then people will be able to choose what they want to do.
If we did go part time it wouldn't be the end of the world as its cash while she looks for another job
We really don't want to have to go down the legal route as its a lot of headache and never a good thing to have to do if wanting to get another job within the same industry.
Edited by eightseventhree on Thursday 29th January 10:39
eightseventhree said:
Update.
the £1000 is the relocation package
Apparently there has been quite a few takers so far. Everyone has been asked to write a letter with what they think. What we are going to put in ours is that relocation is a resounding no, But if its the choice of redundancy or part time then part time it will be. If there are more than enough people subscribe then people will be able to choose what they want to do.
If we did go part time it wouldn't be the end of the world as its cash while she looks for another job
We really don't want to have to go down the legal route as its a lot of headache and never a good thing to have to do if wanting to get another job within the same industry.
Could you not accept the relocated job and get them to strike the "Live within one hour of base" clause from her new contract?the £1000 is the relocation package
Apparently there has been quite a few takers so far. Everyone has been asked to write a letter with what they think. What we are going to put in ours is that relocation is a resounding no, But if its the choice of redundancy or part time then part time it will be. If there are more than enough people subscribe then people will be able to choose what they want to do.
If we did go part time it wouldn't be the end of the world as its cash while she looks for another job
We really don't want to have to go down the legal route as its a lot of headache and never a good thing to have to do if wanting to get another job within the same industry.
Edited by eightseventhree on Thursday 29th January 10:39
cazzer said:
eightseventhree said:
Update.
the £1000 is the relocation package
Apparently there has been quite a few takers so far. Everyone has been asked to write a letter with what they think. What we are going to put in ours is that relocation is a resounding no, But if its the choice of redundancy or part time then part time it will be. If there are more than enough people subscribe then people will be able to choose what they want to do.
If we did go part time it wouldn't be the end of the world as its cash while she looks for another job
We really don't want to have to go down the legal route as its a lot of headache and never a good thing to have to do if wanting to get another job within the same industry.
Could you not accept the relocated job and get them to strike the "Live within one hour of base" clause from her new contract?the £1000 is the relocation package
Apparently there has been quite a few takers so far. Everyone has been asked to write a letter with what they think. What we are going to put in ours is that relocation is a resounding no, But if its the choice of redundancy or part time then part time it will be. If there are more than enough people subscribe then people will be able to choose what they want to do.
If we did go part time it wouldn't be the end of the world as its cash while she looks for another job
We really don't want to have to go down the legal route as its a lot of headache and never a good thing to have to do if wanting to get another job within the same industry.
Edited by eightseventhree on Thursday 29th January 10:39
Take the move and promotion.
Claim the £1000 as travel expences whilst looking for alternative accomadation.
£1000/£0.4 = 2500 miles
2500 miles / 80 miles (return trip) = 32 days - call it 1.5 months.
After that time, say that you are trying to find something SUITABLE but she'll be happy to pay the extra travel costs until then.
£750 in the bank I think ?
Claim the £1000 as travel expences whilst looking for alternative accomadation.
£1000/£0.4 = 2500 miles
2500 miles / 80 miles (return trip) = 32 days - call it 1.5 months.
After that time, say that you are trying to find something SUITABLE but she'll be happy to pay the extra travel costs until then.
£750 in the bank I think ?
The move is not feasible without moving house. It cant be commuted. The 1 hour from base is a standby/callout thing. The Unions have tried to get that time to 1.5/2 hours for the relocation but it was refused point blank.
I think the best thing we can do in this situation is get the part time and hope that there business picks up then she would go back to full time hours. If something decent crops up during this time then it would be considered.
I think the best thing we can do in this situation is get the part time and hope that there business picks up then she would go back to full time hours. If something decent crops up during this time then it would be considered.
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