Guy owes me £thousands. Best course of action now?
Discussion
Hi guys, long time lurker, first time poster. Ok need some advice on what to do before I end up making a mistake. I'll have to be careful not to say anything too incriminating or give away too many details on a public forum.
Basically I lent a very close family friend a significant amount of money 4 yeas ago and I am having trouble getting the money back from him. It was in the tens of thousands and unfortunately I didn’t make a loan agreement with him as he is a very close friend and I didn’t think it was necessary. The only proof I’ve got that I gave him the money is the cash withdrawals from my savings accounts and ISAs and a few text messages which I still have in my old phone. I suppose I could also tape him talking about the debt but not sure if this can be considered evidence if I went down the legal route? I'm still kicking myself that I gave him the cash and not a cheque to prove the loan exists but at the time I didn’t even hesitate as he was like a brother to me.
Anyway, he went and bought the retail shop that I gave him the money for (because he couldn’t get a bank loan) and so far has only paid a about a fifth of the money back after 4 years. Everytime I ask him for the cash he keeps coming up with a new excuse why he can pay (burglary, credit crunch, etc.). The verbal agreement was that I would get the full money back after 3-6 months and I wouldn’t charge him any interest.
What makes it worse is that he has recently had his kitchen and bathroom done and financed a Ferrari! When questioned about it, he said he used his savings from his previous retail business (which went bust).
I’m still on speaking terms with him (just) but it’s getting harder to get money from him. I can’t use a baseball bat or some heavies as his family is like a second family to mine and I would rather walk away from the debt than do that to him (his father has been like a second dad to me and his kids call me “uncle”)
Where would I stand if I decided to forgo our friendship and go down the legal route? Could anyone offer some serious advice. There is a debt collector on the forum jamesuk28 but he hasn’t responded to my email yet so would appreciate other legal eagles perspective (you can PM if you like). Would it be more helpful to if I were able to get a "retrospective" loan agreement with his signature on it and then afterwards get a debt collection agency involved?
I’m tempted just to "borrow" his Ferrari and then sell it on to someone who can take a car no questions asked. I doubt he’d call the police as then his father would find out he borrowed the money from me and go ballistic that it hasn’t been paid. If I did tell the family it still wouldn’t help me get the money back as he could plead poverty with his failing business and family to support, but it would cause endless amounts of grief.
Thanks for any serious advice.
And if anyone wants to PM me off the board about the possibility of moving a below market value Ferrari F430 with only 1 set of keys and no registration documents please feel free to contact me.
Basically I lent a very close family friend a significant amount of money 4 yeas ago and I am having trouble getting the money back from him. It was in the tens of thousands and unfortunately I didn’t make a loan agreement with him as he is a very close friend and I didn’t think it was necessary. The only proof I’ve got that I gave him the money is the cash withdrawals from my savings accounts and ISAs and a few text messages which I still have in my old phone. I suppose I could also tape him talking about the debt but not sure if this can be considered evidence if I went down the legal route? I'm still kicking myself that I gave him the cash and not a cheque to prove the loan exists but at the time I didn’t even hesitate as he was like a brother to me.
Anyway, he went and bought the retail shop that I gave him the money for (because he couldn’t get a bank loan) and so far has only paid a about a fifth of the money back after 4 years. Everytime I ask him for the cash he keeps coming up with a new excuse why he can pay (burglary, credit crunch, etc.). The verbal agreement was that I would get the full money back after 3-6 months and I wouldn’t charge him any interest.
What makes it worse is that he has recently had his kitchen and bathroom done and financed a Ferrari! When questioned about it, he said he used his savings from his previous retail business (which went bust).
I’m still on speaking terms with him (just) but it’s getting harder to get money from him. I can’t use a baseball bat or some heavies as his family is like a second family to mine and I would rather walk away from the debt than do that to him (his father has been like a second dad to me and his kids call me “uncle”)
Where would I stand if I decided to forgo our friendship and go down the legal route? Could anyone offer some serious advice. There is a debt collector on the forum jamesuk28 but he hasn’t responded to my email yet so would appreciate other legal eagles perspective (you can PM if you like). Would it be more helpful to if I were able to get a "retrospective" loan agreement with his signature on it and then afterwards get a debt collection agency involved?
I’m tempted just to "borrow" his Ferrari and then sell it on to someone who can take a car no questions asked. I doubt he’d call the police as then his father would find out he borrowed the money from me and go ballistic that it hasn’t been paid. If I did tell the family it still wouldn’t help me get the money back as he could plead poverty with his failing business and family to support, but it would cause endless amounts of grief.
Thanks for any serious advice.
And if anyone wants to PM me off the board about the possibility of moving a below market value Ferrari F430 with only 1 set of keys and no registration documents please feel free to contact me.
"Ok need some advice on what to do before I end up making a mistake. I'll have to be careful not to say anything too incriminating or give away too many details on a public forum."
"And if anyone wants to PM me off the board about the possibility of moving a below market value Ferrari F430 with only 1 set of keys and no registration documents please feel free to contact me."
Oh dear.
"And if anyone wants to PM me off the board about the possibility of moving a below market value Ferrari F430 with only 1 set of keys and no registration documents please feel free to contact me."
Oh dear.
V8mate said:
I'm not sure, but I think soliciting the fencing of stolen goods on the forum is against the rules.
LOLWell if it's tens of thousands you're talking about then small claims court is out - you are in the normal country court route. The advantages of the low cost route is out, so I would suggest you need to appoint a solicitor ASAP. Initially I'd ask him if he would be happy to set up the (formal) repayment agreement with you. If this is the case you're on a winner, and everyone's happy. If he defaults you can claim against this agreement. I would concentrate on this first, get something in writing. And start keeping a log of all the events so so, and every letter, call etc from now on. Even if you think you'll remember something, you won't.
If he agrees to a repayment schedule then get the solicitor to draw it up. If not, then it's going to get nasty, and you'll need the solicitors advice!
Why not have a chat with your friend's father......maybe he can help.
I know you don't want to involve anyone else but I think you might find some parental pressure might refocus your friend on his responsibilities.
It is always a shame when very close friends betray you in some way; good luck!
MAM
I know you don't want to involve anyone else but I think you might find some parental pressure might refocus your friend on his responsibilities.
It is always a shame when very close friends betray you in some way; good luck!
MAM
The guy's clearly taking the piss out of you. either you put your foot down and do something (ie, legal action, speak to his father) or write the money off.
He can hardly be that hard up if he's swanning about in a Ferrari.
Why don't you ask to borrow the car then just lock it away somewhere (not sell it on). Police won't get involved as it won't be stolen (he willingly let you use it) and they'll tell you it's a civil matter. Then either he has to take you to court or he pays you back what he owes.
He can hardly be that hard up if he's swanning about in a Ferrari.
Why don't you ask to borrow the car then just lock it away somewhere (not sell it on). Police won't get involved as it won't be stolen (he willingly let you use it) and they'll tell you it's a civil matter. Then either he has to take you to court or he pays you back what he owes.
I think your chances of getting paid are near zero. I have over the years lent money to friends on a number of occasions, and with one exception, never got repaid. Even with the guy who repaid, it took over a year and no end of grief. Other than blood relatives in dire straights, I am no longer in the lending business.
It might be helpful, in the first instance, to attempt to document your loan.
You need to write to him or have him sign something from you. Perhaps you might say 'listen, I am going to have to start charging you interest on that loan - shall we call it 1%? It's now over 4 years and I should start to have something back - would you sign this to acknowledge the interest?'
If he tells you to feck off - then you'll have to play hard ball.
I would think you probably have enough evidence to proceed with a claim. Certainly if you have managed to get him to sign something you'll be on the first steps to recovery.
He's clearly no friend of yours.
k can he plead poverty whilst riding round in an f430?!NDA said:
It might be helpful, in the first instance, to attempt to document your loan.
You need to write to him or have him sign something from you. Perhaps you might say 'listen, I am going to have to start charging you interest on that loan - shall we call it 1%? It's now over 4 years and I should start to have something back - would you sign this to acknowledge the interest?'
He's clearly no friend of yours.
Agree. First you need in writing the amount of the debt, any interest being charged, and the agreed repayment schedule. This needs to be achieved on a personal basis, without appearing to be heavy by using solicitors.You need to write to him or have him sign something from you. Perhaps you might say 'listen, I am going to have to start charging you interest on that loan - shall we call it 1%? It's now over 4 years and I should start to have something back - would you sign this to acknowledge the interest?'
He's clearly no friend of yours.
At the same time one needs to both trace and find out what the debtor’s true financial assets are. Does he really own the house he lives in, if he does who else might have a financial interest in his home, the same applies to his retail business, his Ferrari etc. etc. Try through small talk finding out where he banks or places any savings etc. etc.
Why incur further losses on solicitors and debt collectors, if the person who owes you the money has either no financial assets, or have moved their assets into a third person’s name.
Perhaps the OP might be better placed to talk to this PH member “jamesuk28” on how best he should proceed.
Perhaps start by handing him a statement of where the loan is: principal lent orginally, amount repaid and outstanding loan. Make sure there is someone there who can act as a witness. But don't make it a heavy scene - just do it when you have a couple of (real) mates with you who know the score and will testify that he took it and didn't argue. I'd phrase it along the lines of "Look, I just wanted you to know where that loan stands".
Follow that with the conversation about needing to start charging interest, as suggested by NDA. You are then on your way to documenting the loan.
Once that is in place, start tightening the screws.
Taking the Fezza will get you into a word of trouble.
Follow that with the conversation about needing to start charging interest, as suggested by NDA. You are then on your way to documenting the loan.
Once that is in place, start tightening the screws.
Taking the Fezza will get you into a word of trouble.
Don't borrow the car and not return it as that'll cause you grief including with the BiB. If I were you I'd speak to him one more time and advise him that you will be seeking legal advise on the matter. Give him a reasonable amount of time to start repaying the loan and get everything in writing. If this does not work out then it'll need to be a trip to the solicitors.
Having seen this happen a few times to people I always advise to draw up a contract. A good friend will understand and not have any issues signing it. Even if it's for a relatively small amount of money. Good luck here.
Having seen this happen a few times to people I always advise to draw up a contract. A good friend will understand and not have any issues signing it. Even if it's for a relatively small amount of money. Good luck here.
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