Question regardig TWOC plus a bit more
Discussion
Cutting a very long story short, I (foolishly agreed) to put a roof over a friend/acquaintance's head since due to job loss etc he'd ended up without a place to live temporarily. Anyway, said acquaintance rapidly proved to be a serial liar, and took the piss mercilessly while here, eating my food, nicking fags, abusing my phone, and then lying about it all despite being presented with cast iron evidence.
Turns out he's more than just a p1ss taking fool. Two weeks ago, his mother handed him the keys to her car since he said he'd fix one or two problems it had. He didn't take it back all day, and by the evening she'd informed the police. Gone midnight, he turned up here with said car. I went ballistic, made him call his mum, and it was agreed that he would take the car back the following morning. He left at 8.30am saying he was taking the car back to her and that it was all a misunderstanding.
Alarm bells should have rung at this point: he hasn't been seen since.
The problem here is that his mother seems to be in a slightly weak position, having handed over the keys. On the evening of the day he left here to "return" the car, she reported it as stolen, and said she'd go to court if necessary over this.
What's the actual legal position here? She's not seen her car for two weeks, when she was expecting it back the same day he took it. Will the smattering of ANPR cameras around the country flag some sort of alert if they spot a number plate reported as stolen? Will anything actually happen if so?
The second question has to do with his own (broken) car which is rusting in the road outside my house. Now, my prime instinct is to declare it abandoned and try to get it removed, but before that happens, I want to get inside it and check there's nothing of mine in there. There are one or two items (valueless) of mine I can see on the passenger seat, and I want to be damn sure there's nothing else of mine in there. Given that he's applied for loans (on which he will default if ever given one) at my address, I want to be sure that he's not about to try and go one step further and try the whole identity theft thing. How can I accomplish this legally? I have informed the police that his (untaxed) heap is here, and they took details against the incident number his mother was given, but I've heard zip since then.
I'm also about to change my locks, and both my cars have PIN codes that need entering before they'll start. I've also locked away passports, all spare keys, etc. for the time being. The door to which he had a key is currently bolted from the inside and will remain so.
Any tips greatfully received, especially from any BiB watching. Thanks.
(PS. I dunno. You try and do someone a favour, and they sh1t on your head from a great height. Cnut.)
Turns out he's more than just a p1ss taking fool. Two weeks ago, his mother handed him the keys to her car since he said he'd fix one or two problems it had. He didn't take it back all day, and by the evening she'd informed the police. Gone midnight, he turned up here with said car. I went ballistic, made him call his mum, and it was agreed that he would take the car back the following morning. He left at 8.30am saying he was taking the car back to her and that it was all a misunderstanding.
Alarm bells should have rung at this point: he hasn't been seen since.
The problem here is that his mother seems to be in a slightly weak position, having handed over the keys. On the evening of the day he left here to "return" the car, she reported it as stolen, and said she'd go to court if necessary over this.
What's the actual legal position here? She's not seen her car for two weeks, when she was expecting it back the same day he took it. Will the smattering of ANPR cameras around the country flag some sort of alert if they spot a number plate reported as stolen? Will anything actually happen if so?
The second question has to do with his own (broken) car which is rusting in the road outside my house. Now, my prime instinct is to declare it abandoned and try to get it removed, but before that happens, I want to get inside it and check there's nothing of mine in there. There are one or two items (valueless) of mine I can see on the passenger seat, and I want to be damn sure there's nothing else of mine in there. Given that he's applied for loans (on which he will default if ever given one) at my address, I want to be sure that he's not about to try and go one step further and try the whole identity theft thing. How can I accomplish this legally? I have informed the police that his (untaxed) heap is here, and they took details against the incident number his mother was given, but I've heard zip since then.
I'm also about to change my locks, and both my cars have PIN codes that need entering before they'll start. I've also locked away passports, all spare keys, etc. for the time being. The door to which he had a key is currently bolted from the inside and will remain so.
Any tips greatfully received, especially from any BiB watching. Thanks.
(PS. I dunno. You try and do someone a favour, and they sh1t on your head from a great height. Cnut.)
re twoc - this is now a theft so no problems for the police there. Mum needs to give a clear statement ensuring the terms of her "loan" are made clear.
The ANPR will pick it up and if it is registered on the PNC as stolen the BiB will do the job and give him a lift!
Re his car - then un taxed may = a low loader by the council to a yard where theyll write to him at his last known address. No claim and later its gone!
I think youre on dodgy ground just breaking into his car.
Has anything gone from your house? If so and you suspect it it in that car then tell the BiB. If they cant help then you may have to resort to ingenious excuses as to how the window got broken or rely on the fact you had a genuine belief you had the right to damage it as you were recovering your stolen goods. May have to prove that one later.
As for dodgy applications for loans. Have the names of the companies? Inform the police - ring up the companies yourself and inform them - cover ones rear!
The ANPR will pick it up and if it is registered on the PNC as stolen the BiB will do the job and give him a lift!
Re his car - then un taxed may = a low loader by the council to a yard where theyll write to him at his last known address. No claim and later its gone!
I think youre on dodgy ground just breaking into his car.
Has anything gone from your house? If so and you suspect it it in that car then tell the BiB. If they cant help then you may have to resort to ingenious excuses as to how the window got broken or rely on the fact you had a genuine belief you had the right to damage it as you were recovering your stolen goods. May have to prove that one later.
As for dodgy applications for loans. Have the names of the companies? Inform the police - ring up the companies yourself and inform them - cover ones rear!
Ditto Gemini really.
As he says, the fact that you are aware that your 'friend' has items in his vehicle that you have identified as yours should give you enough grounds for you to enter said vehicle to recover any property.
However, hypothetically speaking, an ingenious method of smashing the window is by far the easier.
Good on his mother, little bstard.
As he says, the fact that you are aware that your 'friend' has items in his vehicle that you have identified as yours should give you enough grounds for you to enter said vehicle to recover any property.
However, hypothetically speaking, an ingenious method of smashing the window is by far the easier.
Good on his mother, little bstard.
This nightmare actually did happen to me years ago - it was a boyfriend in my case. Took loans and racked up debts against my address totalling about 30k, and took jewellery too (had to chalk that up to experience). In the event it wasn't that difficult to sort out, just very frightening at the time when bailiffs were calling, and I was getting letters asking me to send the deeds for my house to various banks/building societies 
I won't go in to chapter and verse here about all the shit I had to deal with (can do that via e-mail if you like), but my first rule would be act quick - if any demands/odd stuff come in your name, write back straight away (recorded delivery) and refute it, suggest they (they, not you) are victims of fraud. Same if anything comes to you in his name. Don't open it (unless you have to to find out who it's from), put it in an envelope back to them (recorded again) with a covering letter saying that this person is an acquaintance who has been to your house, but they have never been resident there and have not had your permission to use your address; you have no knowledge of their whereabouts and please do not send correspondence for this person to your house. Tell them if they believe this person is fraudulently using your address to get money, to inform BiB and copy to you.
I'm sure other people know much more about the law here, but this pretty much worked for me. Good luck
I won't go in to chapter and verse here about all the shit I had to deal with (can do that via e-mail if you like), but my first rule would be act quick - if any demands/odd stuff come in your name, write back straight away (recorded delivery) and refute it, suggest they (they, not you) are victims of fraud. Same if anything comes to you in his name. Don't open it (unless you have to to find out who it's from), put it in an envelope back to them (recorded again) with a covering letter saying that this person is an acquaintance who has been to your house, but they have never been resident there and have not had your permission to use your address; you have no knowledge of their whereabouts and please do not send correspondence for this person to your house. Tell them if they believe this person is fraudulently using your address to get money, to inform BiB and copy to you.
I'm sure other people know much more about the law here, but this pretty much worked for me. Good luck
Can't help on the TWOC bit, but on the identity theft I can help, as I've just had the pleasure of going through a mild form of this.
Basically scrote A has nicked a switch card with a surname a bit like mine and then picked up my address from the electrol register. Scrote then uses my address to apply for store cards. I only found out about it when said store card arrived at my house. Needless to say it had been maxed out by then. The only thing that worried me was when I reported it to the BiB they had three thick preprinted pads of forms for identity theft as it is becoming so common
So actions;
1. Check you rcurrent bank / VISA cards and make sure none are coming up for renewal. These often get sent out a month or so before the expiry of the old one, so he might have got one before going off.
2. Tell card issuers not to send any cards in the post anymore, but to send them to your nearest branch and you will pick them up from there.
3. Get in touch with any card issuers for any store cards you may have and get a temporary block on your address for new applications.
4. Get in touch with one of the credit ref agencies like Equifax. You can order your credit report on-line and see what has been going on recently. Cost int he region of £10 for the report.
5. If you are really worried now, get in touch with CIFAS this body is useful where consumers suspect that another person may be trying to impersonate them and
may attempt to obtain credit fraudulently using your name and address.
The information you give to CIFAS is shared between the credit reference agencies
A warning may be registered against your home address, which will alert CIFAS members to the need to make further checks before proceeding with an
application for an account or facility. If a member receives an application for an account or facility using the address they will see the warning and will make extra identity verification checks before deciding whether to grant credit or not. The warning
stays on the database for a minimum of twelve months unless you request it to be extended. It may mean you have a few more hoops to jump through if you do apply for credit. but it gives an additional measure of protection and I have been told requesting protection has no impact on your credit worthiness.
Address for CIFAS Protective Registration:
CIFAS
PO BOX 1141
Bradford
BD1 5UR
Telephone Number: 0870 010 2091
web address: [url]www.cifas.org.uk[/url]
I think there is a charge of something in the order of £10 for the registration.
HTH
Chris
Basically scrote A has nicked a switch card with a surname a bit like mine and then picked up my address from the electrol register. Scrote then uses my address to apply for store cards. I only found out about it when said store card arrived at my house. Needless to say it had been maxed out by then. The only thing that worried me was when I reported it to the BiB they had three thick preprinted pads of forms for identity theft as it is becoming so common
So actions;
1. Check you rcurrent bank / VISA cards and make sure none are coming up for renewal. These often get sent out a month or so before the expiry of the old one, so he might have got one before going off.
2. Tell card issuers not to send any cards in the post anymore, but to send them to your nearest branch and you will pick them up from there.
3. Get in touch with any card issuers for any store cards you may have and get a temporary block on your address for new applications.
4. Get in touch with one of the credit ref agencies like Equifax. You can order your credit report on-line and see what has been going on recently. Cost int he region of £10 for the report.
5. If you are really worried now, get in touch with CIFAS this body is useful where consumers suspect that another person may be trying to impersonate them and
may attempt to obtain credit fraudulently using your name and address.
The information you give to CIFAS is shared between the credit reference agencies
A warning may be registered against your home address, which will alert CIFAS members to the need to make further checks before proceeding with an
application for an account or facility. If a member receives an application for an account or facility using the address they will see the warning and will make extra identity verification checks before deciding whether to grant credit or not. The warning
stays on the database for a minimum of twelve months unless you request it to be extended. It may mean you have a few more hoops to jump through if you do apply for credit. but it gives an additional measure of protection and I have been told requesting protection has no impact on your credit worthiness.
Address for CIFAS Protective Registration:
CIFAS
PO BOX 1141
Bradford
BD1 5UR
Telephone Number: 0870 010 2091
web address: [url]www.cifas.org.uk[/url]
I think there is a charge of something in the order of £10 for the registration.
HTH
Chris
Thanks for all your responses folks.
I'll try the local police one more time re: getting into his car somehow... Post for his name at this address seems to have dried up now, which probably means I've caught most of the people that thought he was here.
Already done the Equifax Notice of Disassociation thing, will look at the CIFAS link too.
FingScroteBag.
I'll try the local police one more time re: getting into his car somehow... Post for his name at this address seems to have dried up now, which probably means I've caught most of the people that thought he was here.
Already done the Equifax Notice of Disassociation thing, will look at the CIFAS link too.
FingScroteBag.
Re : Getting into car.
What if some "scrote" broke the window for vandelism purposes and then ran off
which would mean that you could then remove your stuff as you would not be performing criminal damage.
Im sure some local tw@t would love the chance to break a window for a £5 or somthing....
What if some "scrote" broke the window for vandelism purposes and then ran off
which would mean that you could then remove your stuff as you would not be performing criminal damage. Im sure some local tw@t would love the chance to break a window for a £5 or somthing....
If it's a rustbucket, i assume it's probably an old car and easy to get into ifyou know any mechanics/trainees.
locked the keys in my fiesta at a mates house once and his flatmate had the door open in less that two minutes - no damage done!
suggest a similar technique. or if reasonably competent yourself - 10 mins on the web with google should find you any info you need to go at it with a coathanger this weekend.
CH
locked the keys in my fiesta at a mates house once and his flatmate had the door open in less that two minutes - no damage done!
suggest a similar technique. or if reasonably competent yourself - 10 mins on the web with google should find you any info you need to go at it with a coathanger this weekend.
CH
CVP said:
4. Get in touch with one of the credit ref agencies like Equifax. You can order your credit report on-line and see what has been going on recently. Cost int he region of £10 for the report.
You can get your credit file from:
www.equifax.co.uk/
www.experian.co.uk/
costs £2 a time and you can do it online or over the phone.
The reason that I queried the TWOC element is that his mother gave him the keys so he could get some problems fixed for her - the understanding being that the car was returned the same day... Hence he "took" the car with her consent, but didn't have her consent to keep it for nearly three weeks (and counting)...
And I've already done the Equifax thing.
And I've already done the Equifax thing.
Read my original post over again - we're talking about two different cars here.
One, which is his mother's, he took for the afternoon (with her consent to fix and return it). He turned up here the same evening, after his mother had called the police reporting her car's non-return, and calling me to tell me about it. He called her, arranged to take it back next morning. Next morning he left here saying he was taking it back, and hasn't been seen for nearly three weeks now.
The other car is his own, broken, untaxed, rotting heap, sat outside my house. I know there are one or two (valuless) things of mine in it, I'd like to legally find out if there are more.
Clearer?
One, which is his mother's, he took for the afternoon (with her consent to fix and return it). He turned up here the same evening, after his mother had called the police reporting her car's non-return, and calling me to tell me about it. He called her, arranged to take it back next morning. Next morning he left here saying he was taking it back, and hasn't been seen for nearly three weeks now.
The other car is his own, broken, untaxed, rotting heap, sat outside my house. I know there are one or two (valuless) things of mine in it, I'd like to legally find out if there are more.
Clearer?
TWOC is essentially a defence to theft, the excuse being that there was no intention to permanently deprive the owner of the vehicle. However, the defence is only available to someone using the vehicle as temporary transport, in theory from the place the vehicle was left by the owner to one other place. In practice most police forces charge TWOC in preference to theft because it is easier to prove.
However, the courts have defined permanently depriving (a requirement of theft) as treating an object as one's own. I would suggest that using the vehicle for three weeks does not allow the person to claim the defence of twoc. Not that that would stop a defence brief negotiating with the CPS and with a fair chance of success. However, this does not mean that the person is not a thief.
I have argued with the CPS to say that a person who takes a car, even without the intent to permanently deprive, and then drives it in a manner that the owner would not condone, e.g. failing to stop for police then driving at speed and in a manner that is likely to damage the vehicle, is guilty of theft and should be charged as such as they are clearly threating the vehicle as their own and with no regard of the owner's rights. They have agreed that the charge is correct but still go for the lessor offence.
However, the courts have defined permanently depriving (a requirement of theft) as treating an object as one's own. I would suggest that using the vehicle for three weeks does not allow the person to claim the defence of twoc. Not that that would stop a defence brief negotiating with the CPS and with a fair chance of success. However, this does not mean that the person is not a thief.
I have argued with the CPS to say that a person who takes a car, even without the intent to permanently deprive, and then drives it in a manner that the owner would not condone, e.g. failing to stop for police then driving at speed and in a manner that is likely to damage the vehicle, is guilty of theft and should be charged as such as they are clearly threating the vehicle as their own and with no regard of the owner's rights. They have agreed that the charge is correct but still go for the lessor offence.
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