Expansion tank exploded !!

[LMC]

As the title says. Ulp ! I got a phonecall this morning from garage, my 330Ci is in getting MOT'd. They guy tells me that they were running the engine on the ramp for about 15 minutes, while checking other bits and bobs, waiting for the engine to get to operating temp so they could check the emissions and stuff.

The expansion tank "exploded", according to him, filling the garage with steam and subsequent flood of anti-freeze. Apparently the tester was very close and had a near miss, almost getting broiled in one super-sauna !

Can anyone tell me what the hell happened ?

I drove 10 miles to the garage this morning without a hitch, no hint of overheating. Plus, the car only just got serviced about 200 miles ago, at the same garage. And the report says the anti-freeze was good for -42 degrees. It was minus 4 this morning.

Is my engine fooked, or do you think this is just one of those things that happen ?

Please help guys, I'm trawling the ads today because I think me and my baby are about to part [exchange] company :-(

Les

[Schermerhorn]

I presume because the water pump is knackered that's why it went kaput.

You might want to get the head gasket checked out as well.

[LMC]

The water pump only got replaced 3 months ago (new BMW part), hope that doesn't mean the latter...

[E21_Ross]

LMC said:

The water pump only got replaced 3 months ago (new BMW part), hope that doesn't mean the latter...

i don't know what BMW use on your 330, but i know a while ago they often used plastic impellers on water pumps which often fail; and should be replaced by ones with metal ones. i would be interested to know the problem, have not heard of this before, and generally if allowed to warm up before being driven hard, bmw 6 cylinders are pretty tough engines. head gasket is more than possible.

[LMC]

Oh feck......

I'll let you know what they say tomorrow.

Or I might pop along with a can of petrol and a balaclava tonight.....

[Vee]

If the garage works on BMW regularly I'd be very surprised if they haven't seen this before. It's a very common fault on the M54 engine and not necessarily related to the waterpump.
Cheap repair. It is more hassle having to refill and bleed the system properly than change the tank itself.
Certainly not a reason to get rid of the car !

Edited by Vee on Wednesday 4th February 18:54

[LMC]

Vee, I could kiss you, you've gave me hope !

[MitchT]

E21_Ross said:

i don't know what BMW use on your 330, but i know a while ago they often used plastic impellers on water pumps which often fail; and should be replaced by ones with metal ones.

I was under the impression that only 320ds and 330ds were affected by this issue. Could be wrong though.

[E21_Ross]

MitchT said:

E21_Ross said:

i don't know what BMW use on your 330, but i know a while ago they often used plastic impellers on water pumps which often fail; and should be replaced by ones with metal ones.

I was under the impression that only 320ds and 330ds were affected by this issue. Could be wrong though.

i don't know too much about the inners of the new bmw's too much, but i know for several engines around e36 3, e34 5 and some other later models they used plastic impellers. for instance the M42 engine in 318iS E30 and E36 cars...in the E30 they used metal impellers, but in the slightly later E36 cars they used plastic ones which fail, and on these engines...a small over heat can ruin the head gasket. otherwise those engines seem bullet proof. glad his car is ok it seems!!!

they are cracking cars.

Edited by E21_Ross on Wednesday 4th February 20:37

[sniff diesel]

LMC said:

The expansion tank "exploded", according to him, filling the garage with steam and subsequent flood of anti-freeze.

The mechanic must have been really ragging your car to have boiled it like that

[MitchT]

E21_Ross said:

... for instance the M42 engine in 318iS E30 and E36 cars...in the E30 they used metal impellers, but in the slightly later E36 cars they used plastic ones which fail...

Hmmm. I have a later (M44-engined) 318is. Does that mean it has plastic impellers? Is it easy to change them to metal ones rather than wait for them to break and cause a bigger problem? And if they do break just how big a problem do you end up with?

Edited by MitchT on Thursday 5th February 13:03

[GreenV8S]

Could it also be a cooling fan failure? I don't suppose it'll have been used much in the last few months so you might not notice until it's left running in a sheltered garage.

[largerandrock]

Common for craking but exploding is new to me, may an over reaction.

[E21_Ross]

MitchT said:

E21_Ross said:

... for instance the M42 engine in 318iS E30 and E36 cars...in the E30 they used metal impellers, but in the slightly later E36 cars they used plastic ones which fail...

Hmmm. I have a later (M44-engined) 318is. Does that mean it has plastic impellers? Is it easy to change them to metal ones rather than wait for them to break and cause a bigger problem? And if they do break just how big a problem do you end up with?

Edited by MitchT on Thursday 5th February 13:03

i have no idea whether the M44 engine has plastic impellers or not. might be worth calling up your local bmw dealer and just enquiring. this is a quote from a bmw specialist about the M42 engine in the 318iS:
"
A twin cam cutie, with hydraulic lifters for quiet running, and strong forged bits, depending on the year of manufacture. (Beware non forged cranks in E36 derived engines) 1800cc up to 94/95 (E30) 1900cc from 95 on. 136bhp "out the box" with plenty more to come with a little "fettling" of the 1800cc unit.



The 1800cc is the one to have being the original, high revving, highly tuneable, very economical, hooligan pleasing specification.



However, as good as it is, you must keep it cool. Make certain that you don't have a plastic impeller in the water pump, if you have CHANGE IT, they fail disastrously, and will take the rest of your little engine with it. Thermostats are another weak point and radiators should regularly back flushed. Replace the radiator if it shows any sign of weakness.
"

i am not sure whether the above applies to your engine. should be a relatively easy fix, no more than a few hours labour plus parts. IMO worth doing just in case since plastic impellers are known to fail, which can lead to other problems.

hope this helps,

Ross.

[LMC]

GreenV8S said:

Could it also be a cooling fan failure? I don't suppose it'll have been used much in the last few months so you might not notice until it's left running in a sheltered garage.

It's all fixed, well in as much as all the bits are back together and the motor is not overheating. One thing that bothers me though, the garage say they don't know if the fan is working or not, due to the cold weather. They say it's not the usual sensor type (which could fail) but is activated by the ECU.

I don't know about that; the advice they gave me was to keep an eye on it when the weather warms up and see if the fan comes on.

That's hardly a definitive diagnosis, is it ? So much for the "all our work guaranteed" nonsense. I think if anything like this happens again they will not accept liability.

It's time to change garages methinks....

Edited to add, does anyone know of a good indie in the Edinburgh/Lothians ? The obvious one is Deutsch Marque but I haven't heard great things about them.

And I'm not sure if the "exploded" bit was a bit of an exaggeration, but they showed me the expansion tank and it was split from ar**hole to breakfast time, with a big gape in the split.

Edited by LMC on Friday 6th February 00:15

[E21_Ross]

LMC said:

GreenV8S said:

Could it also be a cooling fan failure? I don't suppose it'll have been used much in the last few months so you might not notice until it's left running in a sheltered garage.

It's all fixed, well in as much as all the bits are back together and the motor is not overheating. One thing that bothers me though, the garage say they don't know if the fan is working or not, due to the cold weather. They say it's not the usual sensor type (which could fail) but is activated by the ECU.

I don't know about that; the advice they gave me was to keep an eye on it when the weather warms up and see if the fan comes on.

That's hardly a definitive diagnosis, is it ? So much for the "all our work guaranteed" nonsense. I think if anything like this happens again they will not accept liability.

It's time to change garages methinks....

Edited to add, does anyone know of a good indie in the Edinburgh/Lothians ? The obvious one is Deutsch Marque but I haven't heard great things about them.

And I'm not sure if the "exploded" bit was a bit of an exaggeration, but they showed me the expansion tank and it was split from ar**hole to breakfast time, with a big gape in the split.

Edited by LMC on Friday 6th February 00:15

glad to hear it's fixed. to check if fan is working perhaps take it for a fairly hard drive (waiting until oil is hot of course), if no overheating, then take it back and leave it on a fairly high idle for a while; should get the fan on. but of course, being cold, it might not need it so you may well have to wait... i dunno!!

[road_rager]

the fan should come on if the aircon is on I think, however the aircon won't work below about 3 degrees C

[LMC]

The more I think about, the garage tech probably had a brick lying on the throttle pedal while he went away and made a cuppa, ironed his shirt, fed the dog, banged his wife, or vice versa...

If the weather permits, I'm going to "test it to destruction" over the weekend. Keep your wife and kids off the B roads of East Lothian on Saturday and Sunday folks ! For any plods reading this, I drive a tangerine coloured Focus, keep your eyes peeled !

And I'm just going to bite the bullet, it's next service, if I've still got her, will be at Eastern BMW. I'm getting fed up with friggin Jacks of all trades arsing about with my baby.

[E21_Ross]

LMC said:

The more I think about, the garage tech probably had a brick lying on the throttle pedal while he went away and made a cuppa, ironed his shirt, fed the dog, banged his wife, or vice versa...

If the weather permits, I'm going to "test it to destruction" over the weekend. Keep your wife and kids off the B roads of East Lothian on Saturday and Sunday folks ! For any plods reading this, I drive a tangerine coloured Focus, keep your eyes peeled !

And I'm just going to bite the bullet, it's next service, if I've still got her, will be at Eastern BMW. I'm getting fed up with friggin Jacks of all trades arsing about with my baby.

good for you....drive it like they were built to be driven!!! some advice may be....if possible, if it's not had an oil change in the last few thousand miles, maybe change it before you go? fresh oil + absolutely nailing the car can really do a lot of good to the engine. i didn't want my e21 treated bad at services too, so i take to a classic bmw specialist (they don't work on post 1993 ish). their service is good, but pretty expensive. but i feel more assured having it done their. i have just been driving the little e21 and once the oil was hot i just nailed it everywhere taking it up to over 5k on every gear change except 1st. the 27year old beemer still f*cking takes it. treat yours well and no reason it shouldn't keep going for a long long long long time yet!

now....just keep an eye on the temp gauge and stop yapping and just rev the sh*t out of your absolutely lovely car!!!! Enjoy!

Ross.

Edited by E21_Ross on Friday 6th February 14:37

[LMC]

Thanks Ross, will do !

She got an oil service a fortnight ago, so should be good to go in that respect.

Les