Servicing costs for E60 M5
Discussion
The other issue is will you be keeping the car serviced by a main dealer or taking it along to a specialist. Labour rates will kill at the main dealer...well over £100 plus VAT per hour for work beyond a regular Service I II or Oil Service.
Specialists around £65 an hour plus VAT.
A decent E39 with AP calipers and a good exhaust will bring similar joy at a much more reasonable cost...or a good CSL with a brake upgrade.
Specialists around £65 an hour plus VAT.
A decent E39 with AP calipers and a good exhaust will bring similar joy at a much more reasonable cost...or a good CSL with a brake upgrade.
The servicing is not expensive. Big things going wrong without a warranty would be though.
Ignore the fossil-lovers suggesting the E39. It was a great car, but now feels very old next to the E60 which is comprehensively better and faster in all departments other than the entirely subjective area of looks.
The E60 is a bargain and we may never see anything like it again.
Ignore the fossil-lovers suggesting the E39. It was a great car, but now feels very old next to the E60 which is comprehensively better and faster in all departments other than the entirely subjective area of looks.
The E60 is a bargain and we may never see anything like it again.
Zod said:
Ignore the fossil-lovers suggesting the E39. It was a great car, but now feels very old next to the E60 which is comprehensively better and faster in all departments other than the entirely subjective area of looks.
Easy, cowboy, easy... 
A 996 is technically better than a 993 but the older car was built whilst bean counters were bound and gagged.
Similarly the pertinent Munchen comparison: door thud alone is worth a groat - or three!
Like for like over the next three years E60 prices will fall very quickly as cars become quick but poorly cared for heavy metal. Well looked after post 2000 E39's are holding their value and cost per BHP is in the favour of the E39's.
E60's are overpriced, not great cars and will be very difficult to get serviced well in three years time.
E60's are overpriced, not great cars and will be very difficult to get serviced well in three years time.
As somebody who has owned, driven, had featured in virtually ever major publication cars I have owned and works within the motorsport industry I probably do know a fair amount about what makes a good car and what doesn't.
The E60 M5 may well be an electronic 'Tour de Force' but as a great car it falls short in many areas. Not a great second hand buy, not a good investment and not a great car.
What history does it have....none. What motorsport connections none...who designed it....and where does it sit in the M sport hall of fame....nowhere.
You may well own one and you chose to spend your money on such a car....but like most owners when the time comes to sell just look at how much money you have wasted and how little return you actually got.
Yous pays your money you makes your choice.
The E60 M5 may well be an electronic 'Tour de Force' but as a great car it falls short in many areas. Not a great second hand buy, not a good investment and not a great car.
What history does it have....none. What motorsport connections none...who designed it....and where does it sit in the M sport hall of fame....nowhere.
You may well own one and you chose to spend your money on such a car....but like most owners when the time comes to sell just look at how much money you have wasted and how little return you actually got.
Yous pays your money you makes your choice.
belleair302 said:
What history does it have....none. What motorsport connections none...who designed it....and where does it sit in the M sport hall of fame....nowhere.
Great E39 M5 Provenance:"Unlike its predecessors, the E39 M5 was not handbuilt at the BMW M GmbH factory; it was produced on the same assembly line as the normal E39 5-series at the Dingolfing factory in Germany. In fact the E39 M5 was almost not built at all; BMW believed that the 286 bhp 540i was powerful enough, but when Jaguar released the XJR (320 hp) and Mercedes-Benz introduced the W210 E55, which had over 350 bhp (354 hp), BMW responded to the competition with a 400 bhp (300 kW) M5."
"It is the same transmission used in the E39 540i but some changes were made to cope with the extra power the S62 engine produced. A reinforced clutch, rear differential utilizing a shorter 3.15:1 ratio and a limited slip differential with 25% maximum locking.
The E39 M5 suspension shared its basic aluminium-intensive MacPherson strut/multi-link design of the V8 E39 5 series."
E60's lack of any engineering excellence or motorsport relevance:
"The E60 M5 was introduced in 2005. It has a 5.0 L BMW V10 S85 engine redlining at 8250 rpm and developing a peak output of 500 SAE hp (507 PS, 373 kW) with 383 ft·lbf (519 N·m) of torque. Unlike some other BMW engines which utilize Valvetronic to infinitely vary valve lift to eliminate the throttle plate, this engine has 1 individual throttle body per cylinder. This gives it quicker response. Other key features include a stiffened aluminum chassis and a 7-speed SMG III automatic transmission"
"The M5 features several F1 inspired engine and transmission controls including launch control, dynamic stability control, and the option of changing to either automated or manual as well as the speed at which shifts are completed (there are 11 shift programs in total forming what BMW calls Drivelogic). Manual shifting can be done with either a console shifter or the steering column-mounted shift paddles (another F1-inspired feature), both of which are fitted to all SMG M5s. The console shifter is the type used on manumatic transmissions; tipping it backward (toward the "+") shifts up, while a forward tip (toward the "-") shifts down."
I believe the e60 M5 to be too engine lead, too electronic and without an organic feel. Yes the car is well built and is very 21st century, but lacks the 'mojo' of past M5's. An excellent piece of engineering but not a good car and that is where the problem lies.
With a DMS chip you can get more power but no more passion, handling nor character. Designed for the US market, a project lead by accountants and technical experts not passionate drivers or those who live for the M-Power.
With a DMS chip you can get more power but no more passion, handling nor character. Designed for the US market, a project lead by accountants and technical experts not passionate drivers or those who live for the M-Power.
dubbs said:
belleair302 said:
What history does it have....none. What motorsport connections none...who designed it....and where does it sit in the M sport hall of fame....nowhere.
Great E39 M5 Provenance:"Unlike its predecessors, the E39 M5 was not handbuilt at the BMW M GmbH factory; it was produced on the same assembly line as the normal E39 5-series at the Dingolfing factory in Germany. In fact the E39 M5 was almost not built at all; BMW believed that the 286 bhp 540i was powerful enough, but when Jaguar released the XJR (320 hp) and Mercedes-Benz introduced the W210 E55, which had over 350 bhp (354 hp), BMW responded to the competition with a 400 bhp (300 kW) M5."
"It is the same transmission used in the E39 540i but some changes were made to cope with the extra power the S62 engine produced. A reinforced clutch, rear differential utilizing a shorter 3.15:1 ratio and a limited slip differential with 25% maximum locking.
The E39 M5 suspension shared its basic aluminium-intensive MacPherson strut/multi-link design of the V8 E39 5 series."
E60's lack of any engineering excellence or motorsport relevance:
"The E60 M5 was introduced in 2005. It has a 5.0 L BMW V10 S85 engine redlining at 8250 rpm and developing a peak output of 500 SAE hp (507 PS, 373 kW) with 383 ft·lbf (519 N·m) of torque. Unlike some other BMW engines which utilize Valvetronic to infinitely vary valve lift to eliminate the throttle plate, this engine has 1 individual throttle body per cylinder. This gives it quicker response. Other key features include a stiffened aluminum chassis and a 7-speed SMG III automatic transmission"
"The M5 features several F1 inspired engine and transmission controls including launch control, dynamic stability control, and the option of changing to either automated or manual as well as the speed at which shifts are completed (there are 11 shift programs in total forming what BMW calls Drivelogic). Manual shifting can be done with either a console shifter or the steering column-mounted shift paddles (another F1-inspired feature), both of which are fitted to all SMG M5s. The console shifter is the type used on manumatic transmissions; tipping it backward (toward the "+") shifts up, while a forward tip (toward the "-") shifts down."
The V10 engine is undoubtedly awesome, but appears to have been developed to satisfy marketing, rather than engineering needs, no doubt to try and exploit the F1 link.
The SMG3 box isn't really anything new, most of its features were available on the original SMG from 1997, and Drivelogic was available on the E46 M3.
Not trying to take anything away from the E60, it's a phenomenal car and an outrageous peformance bargain, but as they get older and warranty prices from BMW become prohibitive, I fear the complexity of the car will be its undoing.
The potential for huge bills, and a lack of people outwith the dealer network with the equipment or knowledge to properly mantain or repair them will, in my opinion, see values slide significantly.
Edited by M5Dave on Monday 9th February 13:41
I'm sorry but I cannot for the life of me see the -ve aspects of E60 M5 hooning potential.
Then again, the same goes for the E39 predecessor...
...the E34, too...
...and I shouldn't wonder, the E28 Great Grandad.
Gents, this bickering is unseemly and not at all in the spirit of righteous, reciprocal appreciation which all the variants deserve.
Then again, the same goes for the E39 predecessor...
...the E34, too...
...and I shouldn't wonder, the E28 Great Grandad.
Gents, this bickering is unseemly and not at all in the spirit of righteous, reciprocal appreciation which all the variants deserve.
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